FF1600 wheelbase and track rules

[LanceKTM950]

Looking for rules for FF1600 regarding wheelbase and track dimensions.

Thanks,

Lance

[Dennis Valet]

FC and FF share chassis construction rules, the FC rule diagram states...

9.1.1.B.12

Maximum Width: 185cm
Minimum Wheelbase: 200cm
Minimum Track: 120cm


FC Dimensions - Table 4

Dimension (refer to drawing) Measurement (cm)

A. Maximum rear overhang from rear wheel axis 80
B. Maximum front overhang from front wheel axis 100
C. Maximum height measured from the ground 90
D. Exhaust height measured from the ground 20-60
E. Maximum height of any aerodynamic device Rim height
F. Minimum safety rollover bar height inline with driver’s spine 92
G. Minimum allowed helmet clearance 5
H. Maximum width 185
I. Maximum rear aerofoil width (includes endplates) 95
K. Maximum nose width 135
L. Minimum cockpit opening 45
M. Minimum cockpit parallel opening length 30
N. Minimum cockpit overall opening length 60
R. Maximum body width behind front wheels 95
S. Maximum exhaust length from rear wheel axis 80
7. Minimum wheelbase 200
5. Minimum track 120




http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...datedJuly1.pdf

[LanceKTM950]

EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thanks Dennis!

Lance

[Dick R.]

[QUOTE=Dennis Valet;353196]FC and FF share chassis construction rules, the FC rule diagram states...

Are you sure?

My GCR has separate rule sections for FF versus FC.

FF bodywork and chassis rules are in 9.1.1 D7 - D13. Some rules differ depending on age of car (the break is 1986). However, I don't think there are any wheelbase and track and overall width rules for FF. There are bodywork width and length limits.

FYI Solo does permit some muffler situations to exceed the normal exhaust pipe limits if needed.

Dick

[Dennis Valet]

I just had a fun email conversation with someone else about this. I think that technically it is correct in saying that the FF rules don't expressly incorporate the dimension table from the FC rules. If you work around with some incorporation by reference and the intent expressed by the CRB in their rules rework effective January 1, 2010, you arrive at the point where the chassis dimensions are the same for both classes and the table from the FC section governs.

It's interesting because the FC rules say that for FCs "All newly constructed cars shall meet the 1986 construction rules for Formula Ford cars as revised January 1, 2010, except as allowed in these Formula Continental preparation rules."

Then way down you have a table, which is explicitly referred to as the 1986 Formula Ford construction rules... but it's weird in that it's placed under the Formula Ford conversions rule set. It says that all conversions must homologate under the 1986 Formula Ford Construction rules. It never says anything about new cars having to meet this table....

Then you have the FF rules which say "NOTE: Contained herein are the 1986 Formula F chassis construction requirements (see D.7 and D.8)."

"Formula Ford 1986 construction requirements as of January 1, 1986 as revised January 1, 2010. All new Formula Ford cars are to be built to these specifications covered in D.6 and D.7. (Also required for Formula Continental.)" (Is D.6 a typo? That refers to clutches...I digress....)

If you read the rules to say that the only chassis requirements are found in sections D.7 and D.8, then the table from the FC rules, the 1986 Formula Ford Chassis Requirements, is not binding. It's not binding on Formula Fords, and it's not binding on new construction Formula Continentals.

But this analysis leaves a huge gap. It assumes that the 2010 revision states the complete formula ford construction rules in just sections D.7 and D.8. If this is the case, then apparently only FC Conversions have to abide by the 1986 formula ford construction rules, aka the table with all the dimensions, and all new FC construction must only abide by FF sections D.7 and D.8. That is, If you believe that the 1986 formula ford rules as revised in 2010 incorporates only D.7 and D.8 and does not use the 1986 construction table, then the table that shows the 1986 dimensions is irrelevant since its not included in the construction rules in the FF rules section. So now you would have two mysteries - #1, why is there only one page of chassis rules for FF that seems to be unlimited except for some weird language about bulkheads, intrusion panels, coolant routing, etc... and #2 why does FC seem to only limit conversions with this big table talking about dimensions. Why doesn't the table apply to new cars too?

Since neither of those makes any sense, I believe that the proper interpretation, as suggested by the way the rewriting went, is that the revision for January 1, 2010 supplements the 1986 construction rules such that the table from FC is incorporated by reference and FF and FC must comply with the chassis dimensions from the 1986 rules as well as the new rules (sectiosn D.7 and D.8) created in the 2010 revision.

The FF rules are definitely strangely worded. It's stupid that the FC rulebook tells you to follow FF construction. Then, when you go to the FF rulebook, you only have a page about random stuff, none of which gives you any direction on chassis dimensions. So you have to go back to the FC rulebook to find out what the FF rules are for chassis construction.




In order to clear it up, it seems that the FF rules need to be changed so that this isn't the only statement on FF chassis construction

"All new Formula Ford cars are to be built to these specifications covered in D.6 and D.7"


It should mirror the FC rule and state

"All newly constructed cars shall meet the 1986 construction rules for Formula Ford cars as revised January 1, 2010" Then, it should either reference the table in the FC rules, or have its own table right in the rules.


Further, this statement at the beginning of the rules is apparently completely incorrect since the dimensions from the table are nowhere to be found in the FF rules

"NOTE: Contained herein are the 1986 Formula F chassis construction
requirements (see D.7 and D.8)."


Definitely fun to think and talk about I'm sure a letter to the board would reveal that FFs must comply with the 1986 Formula Ford construction rules, aka the dimension table from the FC rules. Maybe someone should get them to change it so it's not ambiguous! Now, maybe I missed something in the rules. If so, please let me know how stupid I am for wasting my time typing this out when I should be studying for the BAR Exam!

[John Merriman]

Dennis, it looks to me like your lengthy trip through the rules thicket has yielded the correct interpretation. You might take run through this very long thread about the same topic for further input.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...ack+dimensions

[Purple Frog]

Welcome to my world. I refuse to "get started" about this again. Life is short.

[Dennis Valet]

Welcome to my world. I refuse to "get started" about this again. Life is short.

I'm bringing a FF with a 2 foot track to Mid-Ohio and there's nothing you can do about it

[Purple Frog]

Good. It should be slow enough i might be able to get a shot of it in focus. Will you have one for each foot? I picture something like little Kent roller blades.

[Dennis Valet]

Nope! I put a Honda Fit engine in this

[Purple Frog]

Groshart will probably want you to change the decals on the side.

[SOseth]

Groshart will probably want you to change the decals on the side.

Hey PF, I thought you were going to stay out of this.....


SteveO

[Purple Frog]

Steve,

Don't you know? Decals, i can judge.

FF rules.... for angels to decide.

[SOseth]

He has more hair than I do.

[Larry]

...but his hair looks so much like yours...

Larry

[Dennis Valet]

September Preliminary Minutes directly address the above discussion

[Neil_Roberts]

Are there any existing cars with a rear bodywork overhang in excess of the proposed new limit of 31.5"? The FF limit has been 39.37" for a long time. It would be a shame to require chopping a nice looking tail.

[problemchild]

The long-tail DB6 in my shop is almost 30" with wicker, 4" shorter without.

[Dick R.]

The long-tail DB6 in my shop is almost 30" with wicker, 4" shorter without.

Ditto with my 85 VD copy of a DB1.

Dick