FF Engineering

[mwizard]

I keep thinking about the design and engineering of my car(90 Van Diemen) and I get a warm glow. I can easily see why I am 2-3 sec faster than the best BMWs at their events. Of course another 25 to 50 hp would be nice, but nothing can compare to the elegant suspension of a Formula Ford The whole set up of a narrow tube 20 in from the wheels as the engine compartment and cockpit and most of the weight below the top of the tires, very nice! Throw in race slicks, a race trani and at around 900 lb and you have the "Racing Machine" as it was recently nick named. Any comments?
Mark

[mwood]

While the classic suspension design, tube frame and all is very cool, the pushrod 1600 doesn't exactly get my heart racing. FF cars are real race cars, but they were built to be relatively affordable. But, as you point out, they tend to be quite a bit quicker around cones than full bodied, production based stuff!

I do enjoy just looking at some of the details and engineering solutions Van Diemen came up with in building the RF88 I have, though. And, from both a looking and actually working on it perspective, I love the fact that everything is RIGHT there.

[Dave SanF 50]

... the pushrod 1600 doesn't exactly get my heart racing. FF cars are real race cars, but they were built to be relatively affordable. But, as you point out, they tend to be quite a bit quicker around cones than full bodied, production based stuff!

Mike
That is just one of the reasons why many are very excited about the Honda engine in a FF=>OHC, FI, engine management, etc.


Another way to increase your heart rate is going wheel to wheel like you used to in FV.

[Neil_Roberts]

I do admire the purity of purpose in FF designs: Every single part is highly developed for the purpose of making it faster. If it isn't about speed, it isn't on the car. Everything that is there is adjustable for performance optimization.

A very nice side effect of open wheelers is that they are easy to work on. If I ever get into drag racing, I'll run a rail just because I can get to everything.

Early FF designs were simple and cheap, using production car parts here and there. As the car development process has marched on, FFs have become highly sophisticated creatures. That ancient cast iron lump in the middle looks very out of place in a modern FF. It's literally from another century.

[DougW]

I love my Swift. The thought that went into it is pretty cool. I had a quick look at a new Piper today. A truly amazing car. The level of attention to detail is simply astonishing. I also had a peek at a very old (but very nice) Crossle. It is interesting how far FF has come, seen in these three cars.

The Kent is a serviceable piece, but I do like the Honda and if we stay in FF at some point that will be the engine I run.

[Don Elzinga]

I do admire the purity of purpose in FF designs: Every single part is highly developed for the purpose of making it faster. If it isn't about speed, it isn't on the car. Everything that is there is adjustable for performance optimization.

A very nice side effect of open wheelers is that they are easy to work on. If I ever get into drag racing, I'll run a rail just because I can get to everything.

Early FF designs were simple and cheap, using production car parts here and there. As the car development process has marched on, FFs have become highly sophisticated creatures. That ancient cast iron lump in the middle looks very out of place in a modern FF. It's literally from another century.

Neil,

Do you know what the relative inertia of the flywheel/clutch/crank/rods/pistons are between the Fit and the Kent? I'm curious because that will be more important in autocross than it is in club racing.

Don

[Dick R.]

That ancient cast iron lump in the middle looks very out of place in a modern FF. It's literally from another century.

So are the drivers . . . so far unless 12 year olds are racing FF's somewhere.

Dick
85 VD (which is not a reasonable candidate for a FIT conversion)
CM 85

[mwizard]

And some of us are from the first half of the previous century.
I won't try to argue anyone out of the opinion that The Fit is a better engine, but at $12K for a conversion, I most likely will keep the Kent.
Mark

[Neil_Roberts]

Do you know what the relative inertia of the flywheel/clutch/crank/rods/pistons are between the Fit and the Kent?

I posted a guess here that there is a difference in favor of the Fit, but I haven't calculated or measured it. There are a number of ways to do that. However, my experience autocrossing is that so little of an autox run is spent at full throttle that any difference in rotary inertia or power is unlikely to matter much.

A rough indicator of rotary inertia is the sum of the component weights, and those numbers are in the GCR.

[TimH]

A thing I love about our EFF group is that we have a full spectrum of cars from the 1970s to the 21st Century so I can walk down the line and marvel at all the different solutions to the same problem.

What I love about working on a FF compared to a street car is that I can put it up on a stand and have everything at waist level, don't have to crawl around under the car reaching up and having accumulated road crap fall in my face. Well, there is accumulated off-road crap sometimes..

[Don Elzinga]

I posted a guess here that there is a difference in favor of the Fit, but I haven't calculated or measured it. There are a number of ways to do that. However, my experience autocrossing is that so little of an autox run is spent at full throttle that any difference in rotary inertia or power is unlikely to matter much.

A rough indicator of rotary inertia is the sum of the component weights, and those numbers are in the GCR.

I would think that on a hp course (the ones where AM, BM, EM, ESP, CP tend to dominate the PAX) it would be important. If somebody were willing to loan me the parts, I'd be willing to build a trifilar pendulum and measure them. After Nationals. Wouldn't need good parts, as long as they weren't broken in half. Crank/flywheel/clutch assembly and one rod for each motor. Per the FCS, the kent flywheel/clutch assembly is ~3 lbm lighter, kent crank is also ~3 lbm lighter, but rods and pistons are more than 2x heavier. Most important thing would be how the mass is distributed on the flywheel and pressure plate. I've never seen the Honda parts so I'm not sure how they compare.

Don