tow vehicle for large gooseneck

[johnhudakracing]

I am looking at 48-52ft gooseneck race trailers with living quarters. Need to buy a good economical/practical tow vehicle to pick one up. What do people suggest that have been down this road?

Will a more flexible, newer Class 3-4 1 ton truck such as a 05'-08' 2WD Ford F-350/Ram 3500/F-450/western hauler with the long bed, 4.10 gears, & towing package be adequate & safe? Or, should I really be looking at an older class 5-6+ dedicated tow truck such as a F-550/F-650/C6500/toter-coach?

I don't want to under or over-buy here. Reliability and value/results over bling. Big trucks are nice toys... but I still hope to be driving something more practical most of the time. Any help is appreciated.

[Gary_T]

We have a 44' gooseneck (18,000 GVWR), and regularly tow with a '93 F600. Once when the truck had a trouble, we towed with a late 90's Dodge 1 ton (single rear wheels) - never again. Possibly with a dually, but even that I think would be on the small side. Perhaps newer trucks cope better, but they aren't physically much bigger.

Gary

[Westroc]

I have a 49ft Pace w/living quarters and a hoist so I can load 3 cars plus the kitchen sink. I can tow allday at 70 with a Dodge Cummins (05) with an 8ft box Dually. 19.3 miles to the gallon no problem. Get an 8ft box always for a gooseneck it matters. I would not get a ford diesel. Single axle and all that weight? I wouldn't.

[budawe]

In the West and it's mountains, a bigger truck is called for. Most dually can handle but probably marginal in the braking area. This is always a hard call. Fords and Chevy diesels are a bit fragile; the Cumming is bullet proof but the Dodge truck is a bit short on quality especially the front ends. Later Dodges with the Allison trannies are preferred. Good luck. I have chosen to scale back and buy motels. They're cheaper than repairs and the showers are better too.

[Lotus7]

... load 3 cars plus the kitchen sink. I can tow allday at 70 with a Dodge Cummins (05) with an 8ft box Dually. 19.3 miles to the gallon ....

19mpg towing all that??????

[Nardi]

I towed a 45' goosneck with an 02 F350 ccdd, 8' bed, manual tranny. It worked just fine but I didn't ever do any mountains. Pulling power was great, stopping power was ok but you had to always plan ahead as you should, and always make sure the trailer brakes were working correctly. The best part about the truck was it was comfortable enough to be my daily driver.

[ewcmr2]

Just a few corrections,
There is no such thing as a factory built late '90's single rear wheel 1 ton Dodge Cummins.
There is no such thing as a factory built Dodge/Cumming with an Allison transmission.
And the 19.3mpg would be without the trailer, an "instant" coasting figure, or goofed up metric conversion.

That said, I tow a living quarter 36' gooseneck trailer with a 3500 Dodge/Cummins and love the combination. It's smooth, stable and crosswinds are usually not even noticed. With my old 2500 crosswinds or passing semi's was white knuckle experience.

To tow a 48-52' trailer I would be looking for a medium duty truck, maybe a single rear axle class 7-8.

[Daryl DeArman]

What are you licensed to drive? 48'+? No less than a class 6 IMO.

On edit:

There are little 48' gooseneck trailers with 14K GVWR and there are those with 80K GVWR. Some weigh 6000# or less empty, others more than 15,000 empty. So it depends greatly on what quality/intended purpose you are looking for. The fact that you are considering a 53' range trailer suggests you intend to carry some serious stuff or are pursuing a certain image.

[Bob Wright]

I have a Chevy 1 ton Duromax/Allison which towed both a 44' Pace and a 40' (heavy) extra height Hallmark with little or no trouble. At 48-52' you might be pushing the limit. I know GTP Motorsports tows a 48' Goldrush with 4 F2000s and a lot of equipment with a F350 1 ton, but its a bit of a struggle.

One thing to watch-as soon as you get beyond the K3500 Chevy/F350 Ford (and maybe even with one), you might start to attract the DOT boys who will want you to have a Class A CDL license. They have the ability to fine you and take you 'out of service' on the side of the road if you don't. This is especially true if you're towing for a team; ie any kind of commercial enterprise. I have one; its a bit of a pain to get and costs more to keep than a normal license- including every 2 yr physicals, but...

[Matt King]

I have a Chevy 1 ton Duromax/Allison which towed both a 44' Pace and a 40' (heavy) extra
One thing to watch-as soon as you get beyond the K3500 Chevy/F350 Ford (and maybe even with one), you might start to attract the DOT boys who will want you to have a Class A CDL license. They have the ability to fine you and take you 'out of service' on the side of the road if you don't. This is especially true if you're towing for a team; ie any kind of commercial enterprise. I have one; its a bit of a pain to get and costs more to keep than a normal license- including every 2 yr physicals, but...

This is not a far-fetched warning: it happened to a friend of mine a few years ago coming home from VIR to Michigan. He was stopped by Virginia state police while driving an F250 with a three-car open trailer loaded with two cars and golf cart and impounded for not having a CDL for the weight he was towing. Had to park the rig and pull strings to get a licensed CDL driver to come out and drive it out of the state. Major PITA nightmare on a Sunday afternoon!

[johnhudakracing]

I have a 49ft Pace w/living quarters and a hoist so I can load 3 cars plus the kitchen sink. I can tow allday at 70 with a Dodge Cummins (05) with an 8ft box Dually. 19.3 miles to the gallon no problem. Get an 8ft box always for a gooseneck it matters. I would not get a ford diesel. Single axle and all that weight? I wouldn't.

I am ok with an 05'+ 3500 dually. And I am really, really, ok with 19.3 mpg at 70mph with a 8,500-14,000lb trailer behind me... next stop groceries

Is there any specific years/configuration I should be looking at with the Dodge's? Engine? Gearing? Towing? Unlike the Ford's I assume I won't have to replace a vehicle wiring harnesses, radiators, or engines? That would be a great feature.. I would totally trade the cheap interior and Assembled in Mexico sticker for that.

Here is the thing. At the end of the day, ford/chevy/dodge/freightliner- I am stepping up from a 07' Tundra here - I just want the most bullet proof & economical tow rig I can put together, with respect to the realities of the domestic heavy duty truck market- and my relatively uninspiring racing budget. ((another wards, the real problem is there aren't their any 1 ton 26,000 lb GVWR 40MPG dually's on Honda's web site))

What are you licensed to drive? 48'+? No less than a class 6 IMO.

To tow a 48-52' trailer I would be looking for a medium duty truck, maybe a single rear axle class 7-8.

Not sure here- but I *think* these steel 48' goosenecks, even with living quarters are in the range of ~8,500lbs. Add a 750-3500lb car, passengers, tools/spares, fuel, propane, white water, and a 8,500lb truck- and the math says I should be safely under the 26K. I doubt I could do the 4 post lift / stacker thing/ that would likely put it over.

I don't know what is par for the course- I see dually's pulling six horse trailers, triple car/toy haulers, heavy equip. etc... all day long. Is stepping up to a Topkick, Supercruzer/FL/mini pete really justified to pull a 48' haulmark/pace/united/etc?

If so, it the argument here a safety concern? Is it a reliability argument / better to just give the dually a rest? I suppose my concern is if I over-truck my budget here will be going toward truck tires, specialty insurance, etc... Aren't these big rigs more expensive to own & maintain than a 1 dually?

This is not a far-fetched warning: it happened to a friend of mine a few years ago coming home from VIR to Michigan. He was stopped by Virginia state police while driving an F250 with a three-car open trailer loaded with two cars and golf cart and impounded for not having a CDL for the weight he was towing.

Unless he was towing Model T's- I would think he would have been below the 26,001 GCWR. Most Class A diesel pusher motorhomes/toter coaches/etc... with a big tow-behind could exceed that weight, and it doesn't sound like this was a for-hire situation... These are the rules as I know them to be: http://www.hotshotcarrier.com/img/In...ionOfRules.pdf


:SIGH:

My thought here: They hassled us as kids in our sports cars, and now it is our tow rigs as adults. Who ever really knows the why. Is it jealousy? Overtime? Love for Process? A new season of shipping wars?

[Bob Wright]

A small addendem...

1 F350/K3500= 10,000 lbs
1 gooseneck trailer w/3 5000 lb axles= 15,000 lbs

Gross weight 25,000 lbs and you're ok

1 gooseneck trailer w/3 6000 lb axles= 18,000 lbs

Now you're not under the 26,000 lbs weight limit and the DOT boys have a case.

I will say I was never stopped with either trailer and never went through a weigh station in any state I ever drove in. However, We had two teams and the Series tire trailer stopped and fined outside of Watkins Glen one year by NYS DOT.

A further thought...why are you looking at a 48-52 ft trailer? Why not a 40 footer or similar?

[johnhudakracing]

A small addendem...

1 F350/K3500= 10,000 lbs
1 gooseneck trailer w/3 5000 lb axles= 15,000 lbs

Gross weight 25,000 lbs and you're ok

1 gooseneck trailer w/3 6000 lb axles= 18,000 lbs

Now you're not under the 26,000 lbs weight limit and the DOT boys have a case.

That makes sense I suppose. Do they actually take the time to weigh the tow rig or do they just go off the door placards?

A small addendem...
A further thought...why are you looking at a 48-52 ft trailer? Why not a 40 footer or similar?

That just seems like the size the ones with the living space come in. Most have ~24' garage space and ~16' living which is pretty typical. Most don't have the taller stacker roof/lift gates/etc..

[ewcmr2]

Not sure here- but I suspect these steel 48' goosenecks, even with living quarters are ~8,500lbs. Add a 750-3500lb car, passengers, tools, fuel, propane, white water, and a 8,500lb truck- and my understanding is I should be under the 26K. I doubt I could do the 4 post lift / stacker thing//they look heavy.

My empty 36' (one footbextra height) United trailer was 6500lbs with just A/C and awning. Add living quarters, 3000lb car, spares, tires, tools, full water tank and you get to 13,000lbs fast.

In many states RV's don't need CDL to exceed 26k

[Daryl DeArman]

In many states RV's don't need CDL to exceed 26k

I see you are in SoCal. You don't need a Commercial Drivers' License if you are not for hire but you do need a Class B if your RV is over 40' long no matter its' GVWR. You also can not tow any trailer with a GVWR over 15,000# with a regular class C, 10,000# if for compensation.



To the original poster: some regulations are based on the actual weight when they inspect/scale you, others are based on what the GVWR of the vehicle or trailer is whether it is empty or fully loaded does not matter. Over 26K combined and a regular drivers' license, and a 1ton dually isn't going to cut it.....from both a reliability and a safety standpoint.

Either stick with a Diesel Dually and a smaller trailer or get a bigger truck if you really need/want a trailer 40' or longer.

[kc0stp]

Just as an fyi if you have any sort of decals on the trailer DOT has been saying your commercial and fining people... (and techniclly once you get contingency/tow money you are commercial)

[brownslane]

Is correct; if you get a trailer over 40 feet, get a real truck. Duallies are good for about 40 feet....nothing more. You will beat a dually to death in short order with a 48-52 footer.

Reliability and lowered maintenance costs apply when you are not flogging your truck to death. A dually with 50 feet of trailer will not last long as the drivetrain will be stretched to its limit, even in the hills you live near....and the brakes/tires are maxed out. All this spells constant maintenance. With a smaller trailer or bigger truck you will halve your drivetrain wear.

You will get hammered by DOT with a rig the size you are describing. Regardless of what you actually weigh , the DOT boys and girls will look at the rig and pull you in for examination. It's gonna take time to prove to them you are legal (if you are).

Finally, I have never met a trailer that I did not see get heavier with each passing month. As you start to build in shelves for the stuff you need at the track, the extra gas cans, the extra fuel for the generator, the alignment table, the EZ up or the new awning, everything adds up. Whatever you calcuate the contents weigh, add another 50% and you will be closer to its actual weight. Do you really think you are going to sit up on Thursday night and rationalize each and every parts box you are carrying into the trailer for the weekends' race? Of course not...you bring it!

Best,

This why I downsized to a 32 tri-axle and bought a motorhome. Now I fly under their radar, and have no problems.

[lancer360]

Talking with the authorities in NC, they could care less what the placards say for the truck and for the trailer. They go by actual weight and will make you drive across portable scales if they pull you over for suspected violations. The rules also change as soon as you drive out of state as there are federal regulations that can apply. I pull a 36' aluminum 5th wheel trailer with a '06 Dodge 2500 Megacab short bed with an automatic slider. Fully loaded it will be getting close to the weight limits of the truck. I drove the trailer from Dallas, Tx back to Charlotte empty and averaged 14 mpg on the in truck display with cruise set at 65 mph. Driving to Dallas without the trailer I was getting around 20 mpg with cruise set at 70 mph. If you really want to go that big, check the weights and I think you will find that a F450, Kodiak, FL60, etc. is going to be warranted.

[johnhudakracing]

I learned today that the 8,500lb trailer weight figure I put out there-- that is typically BEFORE they put in the partition, living quarters, generator, water in the tanks, etc... So, it is completely feasible that 12,500 lbs more closely aligns with operational reality, which again is BEFORE the car, tools, etc.. ever make it into the trailer. Bottom line: legal and within spec, but as some have suggested- pushing the capacities of the truck which may well become a maintenance concern.

So, smaller trailer or bigger truck would be wise here. Unfortunately, I don't think I can go any lighter on the goosenecks with the living quarters. They weigh about what they weigh. The aluminums are still big $$$ and would likely shred the hudak towing budget. I am open minded, and their maybe other options I haven't considered.

Moving forward...

- What does a 'bigger' truck look like (leaving out expensive motor/toter coaches) -
F-550/F-650? Internationals, Kodiaks, GMC5500/6500, etc.. ? If I go here, then of course we all know it will just sit most of the time, so I'll be inclined to cheap out. What is the insurance/maintenance story there? Even going the bigger truck route here, am I still going to be spending my weekends chatting with state patrol CVD?

- RVers: How much trailer can the average used Class A Motorhome / diesel pusher pull? Anything much bigger than my 24' bumper pull? Any feedback on how the RV approach has panned out?

[brownslane]

John, I pull my 32 foot tag with my RV. Big Block Chevy pulls easily except on the biggest hills. Frankly you do not even notice the extra aero drag...there is none! All you notice is getting up to speed.

I would NEVER pull with an RV without a trailer toad. Takes all the tongue weight off the RV. Much safer, easier on the equipment, and really stable!

A 32 foot tri-axle pulls straight as an arrow, has the GVW you will need and will easily carry two cars and all your stuff (and I haul a lot of stuff!)

If I had my druthers, I would get a 30 foot diesel pusher (for power they cannot be beat) and the tri-axle.

Best, Tom

[Daryl DeArman]

What does a 'bigger' truck look like (leaving out expensive motor/toter coaches) - F-550/F-650? Internationals, Kodiaks, GMC5500/6500, etc.. ? If I go here, then of course we all know it will just sit most of the time, so I'll be inclined to cheap out. What is the insurance/maintenance story there? Even going the bigger truck route here, am I still going to be spending my weekends chatting with state patrol CVD?

- RVers: How much trailer can the average used Class A Motorhome / diesel pusher pull? Anything much bigger than my 24' bumper pull? Any feedback on how the RV approach has panned out?

Given the option of a Class 5-6 truck and a 48'+ gooseneck w/living quarters and garage

or

RV with 20' tag trailer

I'd choose the later.

#1) Many more used RV's to choose from than used F550, kodiaks, etc.
#2) The RV/Trailer combo will be cheaper to insure and register
#3) When you eventually sell it the RV and the trailer will be easier to sell.
#4) Much easier on the family to travel in the RV than a Kodiak or F550
#5) You can go camping in the RV during the off season easier than you could with the truck and 48' trailer.

The only drawback I can think of is the towing capacity of the RV.

Many threads here on the subject....search around lots of reading and opinions. I don't think you'll meet many who camp at the track in an RV who would go back to the truck and trailer situation unless the truck also gets frequent use while not at the track.

[Gary_T]

Up here (Canada), you'd still have trouble with the bigger truck. In Ontario and Quebec, it would be considered 'commercial' just based on the weight - that means log books, daily inspections, $$ stickers, fuel/road trip permits, etc, etc. Even if you have it labeled as an 'RV' or 'Not for Hire'.

Apparently we were trying to tow ours with a 3/4 ton dodge, likely explains why it felt so bad. Glad we only had to go 20'ish miles that way.

Gary

[brownslane]

Up here (Canada), you'd still have trouble with the bigger truck. In Ontario and Quebec, it would be considered 'commercial' just based on the weight - that means log books, daily inspections, $$ stickers, fuel/road trip permits, etc, etc. Even if you have it labeled as an 'RV' or 'Not for Hire'.

Apparently we were trying to tow ours with a 3/4 ton dodge, likely explains why it felt so bad. Glad we only had to go 20'ish miles that way.

Gary

Gary, in Ontario (especially Quebec) you would still have problems with the trailer, regardless of what you tow it with. DOT have been cracking down HARD on trailers given the number of highly-publicized deaths recently. A 3/4 tonner will be pulled over with a tag, a fifth wheel, whatever....weighed, proof of safety (brakes, lights, ect as well as axle loading. It is not pretty. In Quebec, EVERYTHING is considered commercial, so even a half-ton with a 24 footer is in jeopardy. ANY labeling on the sides of a truck or trailer is legitimate (in their view) proof of commercial use, and you may be pulled over and charged for commercial use without paying the Quebec licensing....

In Ontario the OPP are heading up the safety checks. And they are focused on safety. In Quebec the QPP are focused on writing tickets for non-payment of commercial use vehicles...they are focused on generating revenue IMHO.

That is why I have my truck and my RV commercially safetied every year. The yellow sticker is not going to keep me from being pulled over, but it goes a long way to proving that my intent (keep my rigs safe) is there. By law, it is not needed, but it is cheap insurance in case I get pulled over. Not sure if you have such a thing out west, but if so, I recommend it.

I use my truck on occasion to pull the tri-axle for short distances (pick up customer cars, etc) but I would never go back to long-distance hauling without the RV. It is just so much nicer on the road and at the track. In the 'States, the RV is my "ticket" to bypass the scales and avoid all the hassles.

Best,

[Wren]

We have an F350, F550 and Freightliner sport chassis at work. We usually pull in the 15,000-20,000 pound load range.

The F350 is not really up to the job and is best used for spotting the trailers around or towing them empty.

The F550 is ok but a little weak on power. It is the 6.0L diesel from the F250 and F350 with a commercial chassis. It would easily handle a 48' gooseneck with living quarters. It could also be used as a daily driver with about as much ease as a F350. The ride is brutal though, especially in the back.

The Freightliner is by far the best of the bunch. Air brakes, air ride seats, MB engine with 1,000 ft*lbs of torque, 22.5" wheels and it is built for towing.

I don't know about the weight/license issues. We are allowed to be as heavy as we want and tow with only a regular driver's license.

I would reccomend having a serious conversation with your wife about how much you need in the way of creature comforts at the race track. We have been living out of the trailer at the race track for several years and it has worked out fine. Brandon recently purchased a 40' ATC gooseneck and that really is more than comfortable enough for living in at the track. Brandon's 2011 shortbed F250 pulls the 40' gooseneck down the road easily.

Something like that will let you have a matress in the gooseneck and if you add a plug in space heater then you will be plenty comfortable at night. Maybe add a rooftop A/C to deal with the heat during the day.

[chrisw52]

With all this talk about towing big trailers I searched around and found some interesting information on the basic regulations by state (and Canadian province)

should help clear up any questions about what you can and can't do and what kind of license you need for the different trailer lengths and weights.

http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm