Avon Tyres

[El Guapo]

Has anyone out there had any experience with the new Avon Tyres? I've been using Hoosier Tires, and am interested in getting impatial opinions on the differences, pitfalls, etc.

[Keith]

In a posting on the "other" FC BB, Trev posted this in reference to Avon's, "In my limited experience, the Avons were as competitive, more consistant and more available than the GYs (and quicker than the Hoosiers). Why not use them all the time? I can't imagine that their slightly higher cost would stop people considering what we spend on the rest of the BS." I'd be interested in seeing what amount of club guys run Avon's. Right now we have a source to get 1 or 2 cycle GY's or Hoosiers, but I haven't a clue on where low cycled Avons or Yoks could be bought. I'd be willing to give them a shot though. Wait for a future poll on our site to see what type of rubber is run by our visitors....

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"Somebody call 911!!! Keith hurt himself again..."

[Dan Kennison]

I will have a number of 33 compound Hoosiers with 1 Practice, 1 Qualifying and 1 Race on them in the next few months. If someone is interested in purchasing them from me, let me know what you think is a fair price and how many you would like and maybe we can work out a deal on them. I will have two sets after the January National in Phoenix and 1 set after the March National at Atlanta.

[f2000]

Hey Dan, have you made any more progress on your collection of tire data? I think a general comparison between brands would be a great piece of information to archive on the site. I would love to see the information when it is all compiled, I'm sure there are plenty of others who would as well.

-doug

[Dan Kennison]

I am working hard on it.

[Randy Young]

El Guapo,


On our '94 VD, we started on GY's in '97, switched to Hoosier's in '99, and ran Avon's for '00.

Avon Pro's:

Grip as good as GY or Hoosier
If not abused, probably competitive for 4+ sessions.
Good support, "free" remounting and/or rebalancing.
In CenDiv, Mickey Thompson does not use a water based lubricant when mounting tires.
Diameter is EXTREMELY consistent betweeen sets of tires - as least as good as Hoosier, better than GY.


Avon Con's:

More expensive
Fronts weigh 15#, rears 16# - heavier than GY or Hoosier ??
Require optimization of camber and tire pressure. Compared to our Hoosier setup, more of both.


The Avon's are MUCH stiffer than GY's in the lateral axis (visible in photos I've seen of our car during cornering), but I haven't a clue about spring rates in the longitudinal axis (really important only for braking in our cars). For what it's worth, the vertical spring rate of Avons' for both the front and rear tires are 1250 lb/in @ 19psi, which I believe is probably higher than either GY or Hoosier.

Avon literature says that the front tires are slower to bring up to race temperature than the rears, but we found the opposite to be true.

To sum up, we're very satisfied with Avon and will be running them on our '94 VD again in 2001.


Randy

[Tom Johnson]

Randy:

What compound do you recommend? I will be switching to Avons next season.

Also, good luck next season! And thanks for the help last season at M/O.

[Avon Racing Technical]

Just wanted to let you all know we have found the site & will check it out on a daily basis. We will add more technical data on our website to make things easier for you. In the mean time please be aware that you can get most technical, price and availability information from Brian Downard at Mickey Thompson Tires. bdownard@mickeythompsontires.com or ring on 800 222-9092. If you prefer we can be contacted directly via the avonracing.com web site.

We would like to point out that there should be no need to go without tyre data. Just contact us & ask. If we don't have the information you need we will try to generate & provide it. I suspect that most of the time we should be able to send it to you via Email.

Thanks for your kind comments.
Regards to Randy and all our customers this season.

Looking forward to working with a lot more of you next season.

Avon Racing Technical

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Avon Racing Technical

[El Guapo]

Thanks for the input. Based on your info I may do a test day so I can compare the Avons to the Hoosiers as soon as I get my next car. Is there a significant difference in the basic set-up (ride height, camber, etc.) that would preclude a back to back test using these different tires (or tyres in the case of the Avons)?

[Randy Young]

Tom,

Avon had two compounds available last year, the medium A43 and hard A24; the A43 was our workhorse. Our observations,

1. If the car's balanced, you can use the A43 it it's sunny with ambient temp up to about 85o.

2. At Road America, you can use the A43 with temperatures in the 90's.

3. On an abrasive track like IRP, use the A24 if it's 80o or hotter.

4. If you run regular cool down laps, you can qualify with the A43 up to well into the 90's.

5. The A24 is great for cooler test days where you could get away with A43. You can put 100+ laps on these tires without worrying that set-up changes are just chasing the tires, or having lap times drop off significantly.

6. Needless to say, if the car's on A43's and got a moderate push with marginal hot conditions, you'll melt down the front tires (probably the same as any tire brand).

7. I heard from Avon that their soft A49 compound might be available in a slick for '01. This is the same compound they use for their rains, but it'd probably need to be really cold before you can get away with it.

Late in the season last year (and desperate for National points) we made the Pilgrimage to Hallett Oklahoma, where it was hot -- I mean 100+ HOT. Needless the say we used the A24. About 15 minutes into qualifying, the session got black flagged when someone went into a tire wall, and Don spent the next 10 minutes sitting in the car in pit row waiting for cleanup to be finished and the session to resume. Green flag, he pulls out to go, and rips up four large patches of asphalt that stuck to the tires for quite a way down the front straight. This probably doesn't mean anything, but it sure was interesting to see.

Hope this works for you, and good luck in '01.

Randy

[Randy Young]

Tom,

A postscript to the Avon compound recommendation: You ideally want to see a 200 oF tire temperature, and stay below 220 oF.

Randy

[Randy Young]

El Guapo,

We use the same rake as we did with Hoosiers, though I do know of one driver who did end up with about 2 mm less rake. We use the same ride height, but I don't recall if ride height changed when we mounted our first set of Avon's because of different diameters of the Avon's vs Hossiers. We are running about 1/4 deg more negative camber both front and rear compared to our Hoosier setup.

We ran into Paul Coates, Avon's racing division Technical Manager from the U.K., at two Nationals this year. For pressure, the following is a bit evolutionary, but ...

1. The original Avon literature recommended 21 psi hot front, 22 psi hot rear.

2. For cold pressure, Coates suggested starting with 17 psi cold left side front and rear, 18 psi cold right side front and rear; and shoot for 20 psi hot pressure all around.

3. The latest Avon literature that I have now recommends 19-20 psi hot all around, and our car does seem happier with one psi less in the front than the rear.

Ultimately, it'll all depend on spring rates, roll bar stiffness, how hard you lean on the tires, etc etc etc. In the end, you'll need to rely on tire temperature profile and should look for about a 20 deg F max spread on the left side, 25-35 deg F on the right. Please don't forget my earlier caveat that our experience (and some others also) has been that the front tires come up to temperature before the rears; i.e., loose until the rears are hot.

Finally, I suggest you do take up the above offer from "Avon Racing Technical" for suggestions, recommendations, etc. I think you'll find that they're more than helpful.

Good luck,
Randy