Runoffs Survey for National Drivers

[stroutmail]

Why not grid based on National points. Eliminate qualifying. Those who have not raced at the track get one or two extra practice days.

[Marshall Mauney]

I'm all for CofA, Indy, Road Atlanta, Miller, even Laguna.

You left out Watkins Glen....

[TimW]

Looks like its a done deal, and for 2012 as well, which was originally out of scope due to the existing RA contract which must have been renegotiated.

http://www.scca.com/news/index.cfm?cid=50935

[dalz]

Holy smokes it sounds like just what I suggested yesterday! It's about time the Club saw things the right way....

You left out Watkins Glen....

Absolutely, but is the mid-Sep. weather any better then RA?

[Speed Sport Engineering]

Just saw on SCCA's website this is a done deal.

I can't believe how fast they opted to change this. I personally think this really really sucks. We raced on Friday last year and I thought that was hard enough getting friends and family to the track on a weekday. Now we have races on a Thursday as well? Our premier event doesn't even take place on a weekend? Sad.

Still combined groups for qualifying, less time between rounds to fix things, make adjustments, hang out and relax at the track with friends, and races on Thursday.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but this is very disapointing. I really enjoyed the relaxed week long atmosphere.

I want to see a survey afterwards at how many days less people actually spent compared to the past events.

Do we get a discount on parking since we won't be using the space as long?

[DaveW]

Just saw on SCCA's website this is a done deal.

I can't believe how fast they opted to change this. I personally think this really really sucks. We raced on Friday last year and I thought that was hard enough getting friends and family to the track on a weekday. Now we have races on a Thursday as well? Our premier event doesn't even take place on a weekend? Sad.

Still combined groups for qualifying, less time between rounds to fix things, make adjustments, hang out and relax at the track with friends, and races on Thursday.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but this is very disapointing. I really enjoyed the relaxed week long atmosphere.

I want to see a survey afterwards at how many days less people actually spent compared to the past events.

Do we get a discount on parking since we won't be using the space as long?

I am not doing club racing because National racing is terrible at the present time (I am running the F2KCS pro F2000 series). However, when i did the Runoffs, I also liked the long format for most of the same reasons as you. Too bad we are apparently in the minority.

[John Nesbitt]

As one who is not planning on entering the Runoffs, I don't have a preferred format. I am going to be working the entire event. However, I do point out to folks that nobody is prevented from spending the entire week at the Runoffs, just like always.

The BOD simply directed Club Racing to work up a schedule which permits those who want to spend fewer days at the track to do so.

It seems like a win-win situation: those who have the time/desire to spend the week can, and those on limited time budgets can participate more efficiently.

BTW, the BOD did not approve a specific schedule; it simply approved the concept, and directed the National Office/CRB to work up a schedule.

[jpietz]

Not having the races on weekends is a problem in my opinion. That is why I suggested two weekends back to back with a few test days before each. The problem with having family there is resolved but every one gets a chance to shorten his time commitment if they so choose. While I prefer the changes that have been approved over the previous status quo I think the two weekend idea is even better.

[KAMcDonald]

split between two weekends might work for drivers

would make it harder for workers, and probably increase cost for track, which would get passed on to drivers in increased entry fee, test day, paddock spaces, etc.

with this schedule, we are going to see complaints from people who are there mon-thu vs thu-sun as they need to take more vacation days again person racing on the weekend.

will never be able to please everyone.

[SStadel]

I'm looking forward to trying it. Will certainly comment afterwards.

[DaveW]

As one who is not planning on entering the Runoffs, I don't have a preferred format. I am going to be working the entire event. However, I do point out to folks that nobody is prevented from spending the entire week at the Runoffs, just like always....

Of course, that is correct. However, for those of us who do not have paid professional crew, the one session per day format was a plus. In addition, we treated the full week as a "vacation," not so much relaxing, but as a total change of scenery, and to catch up with friends.

[budawe]

The survey to 4500 national drivers resulted in over 1500 replys with nearly 70% preferring the short schedule. Only 17% wanting the weeklong traditional version. In addition, respondents indicated a very large increase in participation would result from going to the short schedule saying they would attend if the short schedule was adopted. Towing from the West coast for 4 days, doesn't make much sense for me personally so I will plan to stay the week.

I really don't know, but I would imagine the contract with RA complicates many issues including a second weekend, but the staff is working with the track to iron out the parking plan and I expect most of the issue will be resolved by the time the formal schedule hits Fastrac.

I'm not sure how the local motels will take to the short schedule and they may demand minimum stays. We may want to think about using the forums to partner up and share the motel time with others. Not having to pay the high local rates for an entire week or 10 days, will save us all money.

[Bob Neumeister]

If you do the math that means there will be 1,050 people entered in the 2012 Runoffs. That should be a new record!! HA HA If they get 800 entries (which I find hard to believe) that means 53% of the 1500 that voted yes will actually go. Most of the people that voted do not go to the Runoffs and never will.

[budawe]

Not really sure why you got the numbers for your math Nubie. I just said that the respondents indicated they'd more inclined to participate. I hope I didn't leave the impression that attendence would grow by 70% or be 70% of the yes's. The 70% is only the percentage of yes votes for the short schedule. Believe me, we're not that naive to think a survey response is a committment.

I really like the ability to send out these surveys since they give the decision makers a lot more info and it's quicker than waiting for letters. I think there will be more of the same in the future.

[mmi16]

Just saw on SCCA's website this is a done deal.

I can't believe how fast they opted to change this. I personally think this really really sucks. We raced on Friday last year and I thought that was hard enough getting friends and family to the track on a weekday. Now we have races on a Thursday as well? Our premier event doesn't even take place on a weekend? Sad.

Still combined groups for qualifying, less time between rounds to fix things, make adjustments, hang out and relax at the track with friends, and races on Thursday.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but this is very disapointing. I really enjoyed the relaxed week long atmosphere.

I want to see a survey afterwards at how many days less people actually spent compared to the past events.

Do we get a discount on parking since we won't be using the space as long?

I wholeheartedly agree. This cheapens the entire aura of the event - and now for some groups in addition to having to share the Q sessions with another class the potential having two sessions on the same day makes it just that much harder for the true amateurs among us (the one man - driver, crew chief, grunt mechanic & cheer leader) to do what is necessary to get the car on track when problems are encountered.

While the survey may have gone out to ALL the holders of National Licenses, a significant number of those individuals DO NOT RUN NATIONALS and would not be in the running to attend the Runoff's no matter how they responded to the survey.

I view this decision as being similar to the market research that Coca-Cola did for 'New Coke' and McDonald's did for the 'McLean Burger'. The market research they did showed 'overwhelming' support for their new products. In the real marketplace the real customers shunned the products in numbers that left them wondering what market they actually had researched. It is easy to respond to a survey - it is much more difficult to put your money in play on the results of the survey.

I don't believe the new schedule will help either the attendance or status of the Runoff's.

[Wren]

I wholeheartedly agree. This cheapens the entire aura of the event - and now for some groups in addition to having to share the Q sessions with another class the potential having two sessions on the same day makes it just that much harder for the true amateurs among us (the one man - driver, crew chief, grunt mechanic & cheer leader) to do what is necessary to get the car on track when problems are encountered.

How much more are you going to cheapen it? And what aura? It is a bunch of geriatric rich guys playing race car driver. That said, it is still the only race that matters in club racing. Anything that helps with participation is good.

At least they are trying something. Attendance has been dropping constantly so maintaining the path they were on was not going to help either. I know that I was sick of taking 10 days out of my life to sit at the race track in Wisconsin. Anything that shortens it is a good thing. The qualifying last year was way better with a lot more track time, even if it was some mixed classes.

While the survey may have gone out to ALL the holders of National Licenses, a significant number of those individuals DO NOT RUN NATIONALS and would not be in the running to attend the Runoff's no matter how they responded to the survey.

Correct. I know that mine said that no matter what they do to the schedule I was not going to enter but I would like to have to spend less time there.

I view this decision as being similar to the market research that Coca-Cola did for 'New Coke' and McDonald's did for the 'McLean Burger'. The market research they did showed 'overwhelming' support for their new products. In the real marketplace the real customers shunned the products in numbers that left them wondering what market they actually had researched. It is easy to respond to a survey - it is much more difficult to put your money in play on the results of the survey.

I don't believe the new schedule will help either the attendance or status of the Runoff's.

Surveying national racers seems like a good idea to me. What would you suggest they do? What they were doing was not working, so I am glad they are trying something else.

I don't expect 800 entries either but maybe they can lose a few less people.

[Todd Butler]

Not having the races on weekends is a problem in my opinion. That is why I suggested two weekends back to back with a few test days before each. The problem with having family there is resolved but every one gets a chance to shorten his time commitment if they so choose. While I prefer the changes that have been approved over the previous status quo I think the two weekend idea is even better.

Not doable with present RA contract. May be an option with next Runoffs track in 2014 and beyond. Stay tuned. Won't know until we get there. For now, as noted elsewhere a 30% response rate that was 70% in favor of the shorter schedule is pretty definitive. We'll try it in 2012, and make a decision based on how that turns out for 2013.

Regards,

Todd Butler
Area 13 NorPac Director

[mmi16]

Not doable with present RA contract. May be an option with next Runoffs track in 2014 and beyond. Stay tuned. Won't know until we get there. For now, as noted elsewhere a 30% response rate that was 70% in favor of the shorter schedule is pretty definitive. We'll try it in 2012, and make a decision based on how that turns out for 2013.

Regards,

Todd Butler
Area 13 NorPac Director

For Grins - what was the voting amongst 2011 Runoffs Competitors?

[Marshall Mauney]

For Grins - what was the voting amongst 2011 Runoffs Competitors?

Good point.

Also, what about Runoffs qualifiers? It might be more interesting to see what the people who qualified but DIDN'T elect to enter think, and what their reasons were for not being there......

[Bob Neumeister]

The schedule is published. See what you think.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

I was told if I don't have anything nice to say I shouldn't say anything at all.

.

[Wren]

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...nt_3.29.12.pdf


I like it. I'm going from taking 10 days off of work to only taking 5 off.

[Jnovak]

This makes a lot of sense in my opinion.

Now how about making some more sense about National Racing. Let's just estimate how much the cost of racing Nationals has increased in the last 10 years for example.

Now I have been around for a day or three & when I started racing Nationals in 1969 I could be a very competitive racer on my income as a car mechanic, but those days and costs are long gone. I know that everything has increased in costs since then but my sense of the growing cost of racing is that it has dramatically outpaced inflation.

Thanks ... Jay Novak
45th year as an SCCA member

[mmi16]

The proposal looked bad - the real schedule looks worse!

[Northwind]

It should be easier to get a crew with fewer days.

[mblanc]

Interesting concept for the Asterick * classes on Tuesday/Wednesday

Have more cars in your group than anybody else, and your group gets split for seperate Qual sessions. Good Idea I guess.

Hope for Lots of FF & FC cars,
Register early and often........

[Phil Creighton]

I don't know if this is the right thing to do but ever since I got involved with the Club I've heard the same refrain that the Runoffs take up too much time. I think that those that want to stay the week can still do so for the social side of things. We had to try something at some point and this BOD is open to suggestions. We couldn't get more radical under the current RA contract anyway so the 4/1/4 schedule was a nonstarter.
In case you hadn't noticed we are trying to implement sone changes that have not sat well with traditionalists (such as the majors program) - maybe they will work, maybe not but we can try.
Phil Creighton
area 12 Director

[DaveW]

Phil,

I am not doing club racing this year because the race groups locally are so bad. If I were planning to do the Runoffs this year, I would consider this an improvement. In the case of FC, it is not very different from years past, but it does compact the time needed to be there a bit. And, I agree that there is still time before qualifying and after the race for social interaction.

So, thanks for trying something new. If somehow the qualifying-for-the-Runoffs process were to become more satisfying (more quality racing), I might be back.

[Phil Creighton]

Dave
I think thats what the majors is designed to address - whether it will work is still up in the air.
phil

[Wren]

I don't know if this is the right thing to do but ever since I got involved with the Club I've heard the same refrain that the Runoffs take up too much time. I think that those that want to stay the week can still do so for the social side of things. We had to try something at some point and this BOD is open to suggestions. We couldn't get more radical under the current RA contract anyway so the 4/1/4 schedule was a nonstarter.
In case you hadn't noticed we are trying to implement sone changes that have not sat well with traditionalists (such as the majors program) - maybe they will work, maybe not but we can try.
Phil Creighton
area 12 Director

I think the BOD is doing the right thing.

What the SCCA was doing with the runoffs was producing a steady downward trend in entries. It appears that the biggest complaint was the amount of time required to actually attend the runoffs. They have addressed that now. I think that a lot of people will still find a reason not to attend but hopefully this will reverse the trend.

If people really want to bring back the aura of the runoffs, that is only going to happen through more entries and better competition. Shortening the length of the runoffs time commitment is a step in the right direction. The length of the runoffs has zero effect on the aura.

[Jnovak]

I give the BoD a lot of credit for making some serious efforts to improve club racing. Will all of it work? We will find out. At least changes are being made and I bet some positive results will happen.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[JEREMY HILL]

I applaud the bod for listening and for making a major change which i believe will result in more entries. Personally i wasnt even going to try to quailify because i am concentrating on the pro series and the final is at road atlanta the week before the run-offs. However, with the fb runoffs the next friday through sunday it is now possible...jeremy hill

[Phil Creighton]

Jeremy
Its not a coincidence that FB is late in the week - the F1000 series asked if we could do that at the planning stage as its in both our interests. I wish we could have announced it sooner so the SE guys had more of a chance to qualify for the Runoffs
Phil

[Turbowerks9]

My two thumbs up to the BODs. I worked the Run Offs as a volunteer and enjoyed the entire event, minus the rain on Sunday. IMHO the event was well organized, carried out with no significant delays and everyone racing or working were safe and well. That in my book is a success. I'll be working the Run Offs from now on. My hat's off to the BODs for a job well done.