Getting new FV drivers - Young or Old

[rdfrancis]

When I wanted to get into FV racing a few years back, I started looking for a one-stop website that would tell me all I needed to know. I never found it. If a new-bee asks me where he can find out how to get started, I can recommend several websites but it will not give him the information he needs unless he goes thru thousands of unrelated threads that may not even answer his very basic questions. There are several great sites that specialize in FV but none of them have a step-by-step intro on what you need to get started and most important, how to get finished and racing. Some sites have a NOVICE section but that is just a place to ask questions and hope someone answers. In the beginning, you don't know what questions to ask. Jim at SR has a great book on getting started in FV and I was lucky enough to find it. I recommend it to everyone who has questions about FV. What we need is a separate section online that is read-only, like a sticky, that explains what the new-bee needs to do in very a clear concise manner. Then he will have the knowledge to ask the right questions in the section he is interested in (FV, FST, Vintage, Solo). Anyone have the time to put something like that together?

[Matt King]

That's a good idea. Someone who has Admin rights on one of the sites could create a sticky and compile and edit several good threads on How to Get Started into one location. It wouldn't necessarily have to be rewritten from scratch. All the off topic BS could be edited out to keep the info pertinent and on topic.

[SamF]

When I wanted to get into FV racing a few years back, I started looking for a one-stop website that would tell me all I needed to know. I never found it. If a new-bee asks me where he can find out how to get started, I can recommend several websites but it will not give him the information he needs unless he goes thru thousands of unrelated threads that may not even answer his very basic questions. There are several great sites that specialize in FV but none of them have a step-by-step intro on what you need to get started and most important, how to get finished and racing. Some sites have a NOVICE section but that is just a place to ask questions and hope someone answers. In the beginning, you don't know what questions to ask. Jim at SR has a great book on getting started in FV and I was lucky enough to find it. I recommend it to everyone who has questions about FV. What we need is a separate section online that is read-only, like a sticky, that explains what the new-bee needs to do in very a clear concise manner. Then he will have the knowledge to ask the right questions in the section he is interested in (FV, FST, Vintage, Solo). Anyone have the time to put something like that together?

[FONT=Monaco]I need to second the recommendation about SR and Jim’s book that was the key item that took me from trying to figure out how to go from wanting to race to finally getting into a car and actually being on the track for the first time in 2011. I too found it nearly impossible to find any tangible information on the web that could help me make that transformation. I spent well over a year trying to figure out how to do it on my own and basically came up empty handed. It took a visit to SR and getting Jim’s book that finally gave me a road map to go racing. I did find it frustrating that as a want- to- be FV pilot there really is no one stop shop on the web that provided a road map on how to go from wanting to racing. I do know in the end that my decision to go FST and not FV is heresy on this tab but I have increase wingless VW powered cars on the track by one. [/FONT]

Sam

[rave motorsports]

Maybe we can should get Lawyer Bob to write it ---------On second thought I'm not sure we can afford his hourly rate!

[lawyerbob]

Maybe we can should get Lawyer Bob to write it ---------On second thought I'm not sure we can afford his hourly rate!

HUH? Why drag me into this! I'm not an Admin.

And my rates aren't that bad by the way - I probably have to bill (and collect) close to 2 hours just to pay for one overpriced regional entry fee. Oh wait, wrong thread.

Seriously - I think it's a good idea as well, though I suspect there are (MANY) people smarter than I who could/should draft it up. I suppose it could be broken up into sections similar to Jim's book, but then we might have to worry about copyright laws and such pesky stuff as that.

Maybe a simple sticky that says "visit the SRacing site" and "buy Jim's book"

[mwihite]

Well I took the plunge and bought a FV car, Jim @ SR is working on it and hopefully I can participate this year. His book was my guide and was the best reference I have found. Not a new young guy, but a new old guy just looking to have some fun. I'll look to go the the NEDiv school in late March and run some this summer. NJMP, Summit, Watkins depending on availability and cost. Looking forward to meeting the FV crowd!

[rdfrancis]

It seems like there are a lot of us new old guys here. I am starting to think this is our target audience for getting new drivers into FV. Any new youngsters just getting into FV online here?

[protoform]

I think Jims book is great. the only thing I found is it costs me about 2k a week end to race. the biggest cost is getting to and from the track. my motorhome gets about 6mpg towing the trailer so to go to va. is about $1400.00 round trip just for gas. I raced bikes and that was a lot cheaper and Karts were cheaper too so write a book on how to get money for racing that would get a lot more people into the sport.

[protoform]

Honestly the best thing I think scca could do to get more people into the sport, would be to lets folks come into the track for free. I think we would get more drivers and corner workers when folks found out how much fun it is. Take away the 3 person min for a crew If I was able to invite say a couple of family's to come to the track to watch us race. I think they may get involved.

[lawyerbob]

Honestly the best thing I think scca could do to get more people into the sport, would be to lets folks come into the track for free. I think we would get more drivers and corner workers when folks found out how much fun it is. Take away the 3 person min for a crew If I was able to invite say a couple of family's to come to the track to watch us race. I think they may get involved.

That's what I've been saying too

[Bruce]

Limiting must be a Regional thing. Out here in the SF Region there is no limit and no charge for spectators or crew. They just need to register. They are given access every where except the hot pits.

[lawyerbob]

Limiting must be a Regional thing. Out here in the SF Region there is no limit and no charge for spectators or crew. They just need to register. They are given access every where except the hot pits.

Good weather and unlimited crew and spectators - CA sucks! lol

From what I've heard locally, it's a function of the tracks trying to suck every last dollar out of the Regions and the drivers.

I'm starting to think the Regions need to say to the tracks, "tell you what, there are other tracks that want our business so we'll pass next year." that might get their attention.

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

I think Jims book is great. the only thing I found is it costs me about 2k a week end to race. the biggest cost is getting to and from the track. my motorhome gets about 6mpg towing the trailer so to go to va. is about $1400.00 round trip just for gas. I raced bikes and that was a lot cheaper and Karts were cheaper too so write a book on how to get money for racing that would get a lot more people into the sport.

$1,400.00 Ouch !!

Maybe you should consider a small open trailer and a fuel efficient car to get to the races. I used to tow my FV with my Ford Pinto. Not to sexy but cheap....... And then you could stay in a nice hotel and still have $$$ in your pocket!!

[Socko]

I was a few weeks into research when i found out about the sr racing book. I bought it thinking it would be a very useful tool. Honestly it didn't really answer a number of the questions I had about getting started. I mean really, $300 a weekend for tires on a noncompetitive car seems like a good bit of wasteful spending. There was a good bit of useful info about car setup that I hadn't found. But having no reference to racing and entering a class designed around being low cost. The fact that it's hard to get cost info relivant to running a car at a noncompetitive level for a few years to learn how to drive without talking to numerous people is somewhat frustrating.

The biggest thing imo that wasn't touched on in the book was finding the right chassis. When I am looking for a car I need to know what chassis will deal with a 6'1 190 lb person. Whats lighter and whats heavier. What has seating positions prone to be more or less comfortable. What will deal with off track excursions and what won't, as I assume the car will find its way off track at least once or twice in novice hands, and I don't want to have to repair the chassis cause its fragile. What makes something out of date and what I can drive to the track tomorrow and pass tech with.(zero roll, side reinforment, belts, fire system) How cars work, as far as what are the benefits of a leading or following rear trailing arm, as I assume it changes handling characteristics. And what chassis in general have what characteristics. I realize the cars are supposed to all be the same, but I have to assume some chassis are easier to setup or drive than others. How to figure out if a fuel cell is good or not.(buying a 5k car with a bad custom fuel cell would really make me mad) How belt dating works. How to tell if a motor/trans/brakes/master cylnder/... is good or not, of course without being able to drive a car. As when your looking at cars, a number of them haven't been raced in years, sometimes the current owner never got around to running them so really doesn't know the state of the car, so most of this is relivant.

Most of these things can be generalized (some of them are based on opinions sure) and I assume the "cumulative hive mind" knows, but just isn't all available in one place if available at all. Though email I have gotten answers to some of these questions. Some are still pretty confusing to me. It is 2012, the info should all be on the internet someplace, imo.

oh yeah the fact that apexspeed isn't listed as a place to find a car, also made the book instantly suspect as it is obviously at least a couple years out of date.

[Bill Bonow]

I think Jim is in the process of updating the book (Jim, please correct if wrong) to have some updated info.

[Rolling Stone]

By far the best way to get into/info on FV/F1200 is just go to a racetrack were you have plenty of time between races to talk to drivers etc,etc its as simple as that,all race-drivers love to talk about thier class/cars,as long as the driver isnt busy working on the car you can get a ton of information plus see different chassis,bodies, etc.

[Socko]

By far the best way to get into/info on FV/F1200 is just go to a racetrack were you have plenty of time between races to talk to drivers etc,etc its as simple as that,all race-drivers love to talk about thier class/cars,as long as the driver isnt busy working on the car you can get a ton of information plus see different chassis,bodies, etc.

I don't doubt this, and it is my plan. But ignoring the fact that this is unacceptable in 2012 is not going to help to get new drivers or spread awareness. It's not the 80's(when people talked to each other to spread knowledge), to people in their 20's things that aren't on the internet don't exist. In 10 years(not long in terms of how old fv is) those people are going to be in their 30's and be your best bet for fresh new driver's. As I would imagine anyone who truely decides on their own to get into racing is going to be in the 25-45 age group.

[SamF]

By far the best way to get into/info on FV/F1200 is just go to a racetrack were you have plenty of time between races to talk to drivers etc,etc its as simple as that,all race-drivers love to talk about thier class/cars,as long as the driver isnt busy working on the car you can get a ton of information plus see different chassis,bodies, etc.

It is not really as easy as it may seem. It is not even easy for a want-to-be FV driver to find out what tracks the cars are at, and in my case once I did find out I was not allowed into the track as I was not on a crew list. There is no easy way to get started without help of someone that is already doing it and until you find that person you are stuck outside the fence.

Sam

[Rolling Stone]

In the early 90s I paid to get in at Mosport and watched the racing and could walk among ALL the cars/classes in the paddock/parking areas,you are just not allowed up at the grid area,thats how I learned that F1200 existed,just walking around amongst the cars of all classes and looking at them,taking a few photos etc,then I saw a vee and asked what it was....not many future drivers DONT go to racetracks at some point,I knew about F1 as I watched it and still do,I knew about Formula Ford which is why I went to the track,then saw a Vees while there.The internet helps,but its not the answer to it all.I bet only a small % of Vee drivers find they want to race a certain class via the interenet,they find out about it at the track,by chance or whatever,but they go and watch racing as its the sport they love.I didnt know there was such a cheap class as Vee until I saw them and enquired,but only by being at the track.People dont punch in FVEE on their computor if they have never heard of it,wether there is tons of info on the net or not,but they can punch in F/ Ford,F2000,NASCAR etc as they have HEARD of it at some point.

[SamF]

[FONT=Monaco]In the 1980s when I was in high school we could walk into Indianapolis Raceway Park and watch club racing and that is when I decided I wanted to be in a FV. 30 odd years later when I had the ability to do so I found it almost impossible to find the information that I needed to get started. I did finally get into Mid-Ohio and talk to a few FV drivers and was directed to SR by an FV racer at the track, and that was the link that enabled me to learn what I needed to do to get on the track. Today the barriers to get on the track are high, the local SCCA chapter could tell me all about solo and autocross but not a thing about club racing. I my area you can’t just walk in, paying or not, to a track to meet people. Understanding what you need for a car and safety equipment is all very complicated for a newbie. Trying to figure out how to find a SCCA school and how to get through it is not easy. I took me nearly 2 years from the time I deciding that I was going to go racing to actually having a full understanding what I needed to do. I would have been on the track at least a year sooner if the information was easily available. The FV world is a very guarded and hidden from outsiders, you on the inside may not think so, that is what needs to overcome to get new blood. I wanted to be in an FV and I knew I was going to do it, but it was just not easy to go from there to find out how and then actually do it. [/FONT]
[FONT=Monaco][/FONT]
[FONT=Monaco]Sam[/FONT]

[BLS]

The way I discovered FV was by going to a race that had V's as the preliminary to the feature. 1969 CanAM race at Road Atlanta. I was 16. I remember very little of the CanAm race with the big names, but I still remember the V race with maybe a dozen cars at the front trying to win. I knew that day what I wanted to race...

There were a couple other people there that day that came to the same conclusion. One became a very dear friend and helped me get into the sport several years later. So, at least 3 people were affected by the race that day in a very positive way. Pro races like this provide good exposure. With the internet to back it up, this would be a very good way to find new drivers. People that go to races are interested. Somehow you have to get exposure to the class. I do not see any really good way other than to show the class were the spectators are.

[tsiembieda]

I spent 12 years working corners before deciding to come to the other side. I always like the Vee so picking this class was easy. I still have a lot to learn but I'm slowly figuring it out.

If someone asked me how to becoming a driver would suggest they work a weekend at a race. Get out on a corner or pits & grid or any of the specialties where you can get up close to the cars and drivers. Everyone is looking for new workers, and for the price of a weekend membership you can get much closer.

[Bruce]

The most Important thing is to get the word out. Just ask anyone on the street if they know what SCCA stands for and I can almost guarantee, you will not get the correct answer. Being the Secret Car Club of America does not help. After that you, can direct them to any number of web sites.

Spend time at an auto show or other related event. Have pamphlets or literature about SCCA and FV. Introduce yourself and give them knowledge. Be a salesman. You are the connection to racing most know little about.

[Hardingfv32]

Just ask anyone on the street if they know what SCCA stands for ...

You are joking. Ask them what NASCAR is? You will get the same blank stare.

Brian

[BLS]

Ask them what NASCAR is? You will get the same blank stare.

Not around here...
Charlotte, NC

[provamo]

what attracted me to FV in the sixties was seeing articles in the "original" Autoweek...Car&Driver et al

i recall one story about a "pro" event held as part of the Nassau Speedweeks where Grand Prix driver participated in a race...........that really grabbed my attention

back then remember formula car racing was not diluted with a confusion of classes:

there was F1, 2, 3 on the continent and FA, B, C stateside

Vee was a relatively new stater class..................the bottom rung of the ladder

so i focused on that class....found a partner through autocrossing....we bought a car.........i went to drivers school............and raced for a couple of years starting at 18 in Canada with the CASC when the legal age with the SCCA in the US was 21

no big deal.........just do it

seat time/ track time way more valuable than any particular chassis etc

i will say this, that most of my principle mentors/supporters were at least ten years older than i but i sought them out and in the pre-internet age luck played a big part in getting into FV racing

JUST DO IT !

[sracing]

While my book "Getting Started in FV" was meant to help newbies, I certainly couldn't answer every question about every FV car design in history, or it's competitveness.

I did in fact though, cover the following: Car purchases, one off's vs, pro-builts. What to look for, and even offered those with questions to call about a particular model or even car that we may have seen or raced against over the years. The most important mention in the book is to contact the SCCA and find a racer near you and a nearby race sched to attend. As mentioned here the last two items are the thing that will answer most of your questions. It would be difficult to answer EVERY question that a starter may have in 45 pages. . Most every race I attend, I still see the book open on the engine cowl while someone is adjusting valves, etc. There was nothing new or remarkable in the book, but it brought it all together under one cover to assist the newer guys.

We are working on an updated version of the book and will include a few more things. (One of the great things is that not much has changed in FV since the first printing of the book. With the exception of costs.) ( BTW, I think we are pushing about 700 or 800 copies sold. Where are all those Vees? )

A few years ago SportsCar bought the rights to the book and published most of it's content across 4 issues of Sports Car mag. Those articles generated several new drivers and several calls to us. Also, a California division was handing the books out (no cost) at driver schools.

IMO, that book and a nice CD/DVD with some vids and the book on it would be a very good promotional tool for FV. (I have offered this before.) If someone is serious about promotion they should drive this. While I am updating the book again, I do not have the time to take on another project, but will assist if we can.

Someone actually planning to visit a Kart race, car show, etc. and promoting Vee? Hand out a $2 CD and /or the book. This is where new drivers will come from. Make spec tires at 1/2 price free if you want, but without promotion you won't get a single additional driver, since no one knows we exist.

So again, I will ask: Is anyone serious? Or is this just another wasted post?

[provamo]

it would be easier to attract new "Vee" drivers if there were fewer formula classes

[protoform]

I am considering taking my open trailer to the track on the back of my f-150 ford pickup. At this time that means I go by my self. My wife and I are both over 60 years old , and there is no way she would put up with that. I still like a tent . lol she doesn't even want me in a tent. I have a nice light 20ft enclosed trailer, a bunk in there would work to , but again the wife and our 3 small dogs are at home. It is nice on a 14 hour trip to have some one to talk to. she gets upset if she can't watch tv or get internet, when at the races. She helps me get into the car and that is about it. She is not a race fan. When I roadraced Motorcycles , she wouldn't even go to the track. At least she goes to the car races, even if she is inside the motorhome the entire time.If you talk to any of my Buddies at the track they probably have never even seen my wife.

[S Lathrop]

I started racing FVs in the late 60's on the east coast. I am still working on FV's today.

Aside from designing and building cars, I have spent decades working as a race engineer. My biggest gripe with the majority of drivers I have worked with is the lack of fundamental driving and setup skills they have when they get to Indy lights.

Some of the best prepared drivers have extensive experience in FV or FF when they started.

I can site many examples of FV drivers who pile into FC or faster cars and are competitive from the get go. It is their FV skills that allow them to make the transition to faster cars. If a driver drives any other car just as he does a FV, he will be plenty fast. FV drivers master momentum driving (maintaining the highest possible minimum speed) and this skill works well in any type of car.

I have not seen any one extoling the virtues of FV as one of the best training classes. Or that the budget requirements to run at the front are way less than FF or any other class. Or that most any car built in the last 20 years can be competitive with good driving,good setup, good power and good tires.

[budawe]

Has anyone seen the last issue of Sports Car? It was a great intro to the club and discribed how to get started. Problem is the Mag is not on the shelves at the store. You and your regions can get materials from Topeka that can be used as handouts at other events. I've worked the Autorama car show a couple of times and went to Bug ins with hand outs. Everything helps and the Club is prepared to help. Check it out.

[FVEE56]

BLS,
I was not at the CAN AM and Formula Vee race at Road Atlanta but did you know that Oscar Koveleski has a DVD of the two races? I first saw it in the early 1970's at Autoworld and bugged him for years to get a copy. You can get a copy at autoworldmobilia.com. It has some 8 mm home video from the Can Am series. The Formula Vee video was good.

[butch deer]

After thinking about this it seems the greatest source of new FV drivers has been for old FV drivers to produce them from scratch.

[Tiago Santos]

Haha. Are you thinking something along the lines of free viagra to registered FV drivers?

[Bill Bonow]

Haha. Are you thinking something along the lines of free viagra to registered FV drivers?

Something like that. Mike Varicins, Nick Maurus, Andy Whitstdon, Chris Jennerjahn, Quin Posner. All with fathers who raced FV. Given a few more miutes I could name another dozen or so. Butch Deer

Sorry I'm at Bill's house and wasn't paying attention that it was logged in with Bill's name

[Rob Henley]

I am the new owner of a d13 with hopes of getting back on the track after a long absence. I would like to talk with anyone who can help me learn about the d13 design. Is there a d13 guru out there???
. Also I would like to speak with anyone who has knowledge of my car. The ID number is 022-650 and the car spent almost all of it's life in the North East.Hard to read the signature but may be that Tom Colliers was the first owner and he raced in Lime Rock and Bridgehampton in 78. The next name appears in 1980....O'Conner....and he made it to the Runnoffs in Atlanta according to the log but that name has not appeared in the list of Runnoff drivers that I can discover. The car was then sold to William Matchneer the 3rd in '83... was driven by Tom Kaufman and then sold to Dean Cate 04. who sold it to me. I would be grateful for any knowledge or history of this car...and hope to see y'all on the track ASAP I

[budawe]

While the idea of free track time is a bit of a reach, SCCA does have very low cost programs to help folks check out the track experience. If you go to the SCCA website, click on Road Racing, there is a link to Time Trials and PDX programs that the club provides. The Performance Driving Experience, (PDX) is an opportunity to go on a track with your street car and give it a try for a resonable investment. By the way, they're always looking for instructors. The Club and Time Trials offer more competitive experiences by introducing the clock as a form of competition. Car prep ranges from totally street stock to GCR compliant race cars. The TT program also provides lower cost track time for practice and development for us licensed folks. Take a look at the website and talk to your region.

Check out the Hill Climb section as well. If you have a GCR compliant car, you can run a hillclimb. Even a vee can run! Think about ripping up a hill on a natural highway. Kinda hairy, but I've decided it's part of my "bucket list."

Membership in SCCA has been falling and it's up to all the members to spread the word, Topeka can't do it all.

[FVRacer21]

News from New England region:

"April 7th NHMS Open House
We need a few racecars for our display and folks willing to spend the day talking racing!"

http://www.nhms.com/media/news/604092.html?src=rss

Everyone might want to check with their local track, and if they are not doing something like this, they should consider it.

Also, for may pro events, tracks will allow regions to set a a recruiting tent - brign a few cars and spend time talking to the spectators. After all - we were all spectators before we were racers - just needed a mentor and a little encouragement.

ChrisZ

[rdfrancis]

I checked out the CFR SCCA PDX site and I think it would be a great starting place for someone thinking about racing. You have to start somewhere and if they didn't start in Karting when they were a kid then this is the next place. Open wheeled cars are not allowed in the PDX (at least at this race) so I am going to try to convince my son to let dear ole dad use his 73 camaro. Looks like it may be some fun and might go toward the second drivers school requirement. Thanks Budawe!

[rdfrancis]

I just bought a couple of old FV documents. The first is a newsletter from Formula Vee International dated March 1966 and it was already the 18th issue! In it are some of the very issues that we deal with on this message board. How to keep it simple and cheap. How to keep it competitive within the rules. How to get new cars and drivers in FV. An interesting story was about how the class had grown to over 1000 cars but NONE were in California because they did not want the class there. They were actually fighting the class! Another big issue was blueprinting and balancing. Should it be allowed as the common FV owner/driver could not afford it and this gave an unfair advantage to the people who could afford it. And believe it or not, in 1966, they were talking about going to the 1300 engine and ball-joint front end but they voted and decided to leave the class the way it was originally intended. Sound familiar?

One of the best stories was about a group of FV drivers who brought their FV's to the opening of a Mall. They brought several cars in various stages of completion and handed out information on how to join. Great idea. Bring the cars to places people would normally flock to (not the track!).

The second item was a 17 page brochure named ALL ABOUT FORMULA VEE, published in 1968 by Formula Vee International. It was a hand-out given to interested people and was filled with FV history, rules, contacts and race clubs. A great idea even today with our websites, Youtube, Facebook etc. Put something in their hands before they walk away!

It is funny that unless you noticed the date on either of these documents, you would think that they are talking about current issues in FV. That was 43 years ago!

Just something to think about....