Tire Brand Question

[Matt King]

You can only bolt a stock wheel on in one direction, but if you had a wheel that could be bolted to the drum in either direction, you could flip the tires without dismounting. Otherwise you are just rotating the tires if you move them from one side to the other, not changing the orientation of the tread on the wheel.

[Mark Filip]

You can only bolt a stock wheel on in one direction, but if you had a wheel that could be bolted to the drum in either direction, you could flip the tires without dismounting. Otherwise you are just rotating the tires if you move them from one side to the other, not changing the orientation of the tread on the wheel.

If you bolt the stock wheels on backwards it adds about 5" width to the car and it looks cool I have done this for transport only and would not recommend anyone to do this. I repeat "DO NOT DO THIS" your wheels will fly off.

[problemchild]

As I understand what I'm reading, flipping the tire on the rim is a way of extending life. I understand that. I did not know and do not understand why you can not swap left/right. I thought the wheels were symmetrical. Apparently they are not. Could someone please explain? I never knew this.

By the way, it is not a 3am post where I am, closer to 1:30pm.

Wheels have only one side out.
It is recommended that tire be mounted so their initial rotation is a specific direction, but that is ignored by most low-powered car racers.

While Daryl's suggestion is amusing, having tires that can go 4-5 sessions without flipping would be a much better solution. That is the frequency that I flip front FF spec tires or FST spec tires. Rears, not so often, sometimes never.

[BLS]

I understand the wheels only fit one side to the drum, but they will go on either side of the car. At least I never knew anything different.

If I take a right side wheel/tire and move it to the left side, the movement of rubber from one side to the other is reversed, as is the rotation direction of the tire.

The only difference I can see with flipping the tire on the rim is the outside and inside change positions (which might be important). Is this why you flip the tire rather than flipping right to left or am I still not understanding?

I used to swap left and right, especially at Savannah (Roebling) in the old days when the track was paved with a shell mixture and particullarly rough on tires. Have the tires changed such that it doesn't work that way? Or maybe I was always doing it the wrong way?

Thanks for the explanations, just not sure I understand it. Could be my preconceived notions are getting in the way. Or maybe I'm just dumber than dirt...

[problemchild]

BLS,
The tire is only using a narrow band of the tire at any given time. Flipping the tire just spreads around the wear. Same idea as rotating tire/wheels to different locations on the car, but more so. Depending on exact wear on your car with your driving, it can extend tire wear by as much as 100%.

[sracing]

You can swap right and left as you say. However much of the wear is on the inside of the tire depending upon your camber. So the only way to equalize this wear is via a tire flip. (If you just rotate wheels the worn inside will still be on the inside.)

[BLS]

Thanks guys. I understand it now. Another one of those things I never thought about.

[jpetillo]

There have been several test days where drivers (new or existing FV) have been invited to test the FST. We also have a program (un-annnounced as of yet) for introducing young people to FST. We are also working to put together a vid and brochure for entry to FST for those unaware of the class. There was an attempt to do something similar with FV, but it didn't come to fruition. Our new un-announced program will be on our website when dates etc are determined. www.formula-first.org FV could certainly do something similar. This could have been a joint program, but when the original FV promotion effort started, FST was not going to be included. So I guess the efforts will be seperate.

I look forward to seeing that when it comes out.

[jpetillo]

Mission, BC is a perfect example of a place this worked. Scott Arthur and Bob Williams started buying vee's by the truckload. No really, the truckload. i think they have about 8 or 10 cars now that they run out of a 40 foot semi trailer!

They started by renting them at cost. Scott rented me a car for my first race in fact. (I already had a car, but it was not track ready yet)

Here's the problem, I have offered to let someone run my vee at my cost. However, amortize the cost of everything out over the course of a year. I pay someone to rebuild my engine every year. My tranny every three years. A set of carbotech's each year. I do a frame up every other year. Turn the drums, replace master cylinders, etc. Divide all that by however many races you do in a year.

now add:
Tires
Fuel
Travel to the track
Travel/food expenses while you support the car
(I'm assuming your labor rate is $0.00 per hour) :-)

You end up with a number that is a far cry from $200 or whatever sounds like a doable number.

So, once you have this cost per race weekend equation figured out, where can you cut costs?
Pump gas? (not in my engine, thank you very much)
Old tires? (Spec tires?)
Sleep in the trailer?

What costs are you willing to eat or cover yourself?

And finally, how much are you willing to pay an attorney to write a release/consent/liability form to make sure if the guy goes out and slams into a wall he is liable, you are not, and if a rod end broke he can't sue and get your house?

Renting a car is harder than it sounds.

Now, if you do a lot of this work yourself, the cost is much more manageable. If you have a car that is just a rental, and not your own car, it is even better. This prevents having to have "the best of everything" on the rental. A lot of the stuff I replace regularly (master/slave cylinders, battery, brake hardware, etc.) has some useful life left. Maybe that could go on a rental car.

However, if I bring another car home, I may end up sleeping in it. :-)

Stephen, that was a lot of good information. Thanks.

I wasn't talking about individuals funding this, I was looking at it being a FV community thing. Someone had mentioned spending money on advertising, I believe. If we were willing to spend money as a community, and it was a significant enough amount, perhaps putting it towards helping new drivers get into cars would be a better way to increase fields. John

[Matt King]

Stephen, that was a lot of good information. Thanks.

I wasn't talking about individuals funding this, I was looking at it being a FV community thing. Someone had mentioned spending money on advertising, I believe. If we were willing to spend money as a community, and it was a significant enough amount, perhaps putting it towards helping new drivers get into cars would be a better way to increase fields. John

In the class I used to race in with NASA, a group of guys from Illinois did something similar to this. They all pitched in with parts and labor (including building a rollcage, paint & body work, etc.) to convert a couple of street cars (we raced Mustangs and Camaros under a combo of SS and IT type rules), then sold them basically at cost to new racers to help grow the class. They did this two or three times. It was a great way to get a decent turnkey car into the hands of a new racer without him having to spend the months or even years that it often takes new guys to move from the stage of being interesting in going racing to actually having a race ready car.

In the FV community of all places, this would be a great opportunity to leverage the decades of experience of some of the older guys who are maybe ready to slow down a bit in terms of active racing but would want to stay involved and help the future of the class. There are a lot of older Vees that could be put back on track with just a little love and attention from guys who really know what they are doing and would save a newbie a lot of time and aggravation and the risk of getting in over their head with a real dud of a car. There isn't really much of a profit motive or opportunity in this. It would really have to be a labor of love to help build up the class.