New to the boards and to Formula racing

[Alr11606]

Hi everyone I'm 16 and wanting to get into open wheel racing. After some searching I found that Formula Vee seems to be a relatively cheap/easy to get into to starter class. The only issue is I can't seem to find much info it. Like what chassis is competitive now,Will an older 80s chassis still be competitive,What will I need to be legal, Is there a regional championship for Formula vee in my region(Great Lakes), What to look for in a car when I buy one, and where can I get my license? and even then I'm sure I'm forgetting some things and please feel free to tell me what else I'll need because I'm completely confused and SCCAs website doesn't help.

Thanks in advance,
-Austin

[Bill Bonow]

You have a very good resource just up the road from you in SRacing www.sracing.com They have a great book called getting started in FV that would be a good way to get an idea of the class and loads of info on FV.

[Alr11606]

Thanks that looks like exactly what I need. Also they are in Lexington so are there many FV guys in KY?

[mdwracer]

pm sent
Mike

[Steve Davis]

Austin,
Could you please tell me
1). How you found out that FV exists?
2). Did you find the FormulaVee.us website?
3). What are the first 5 or 6 (or more) questions you'd like to have the answers to?

Reason - I am the webmaster for FormulaVee.us (aka FormulaVeeUSA.org) and I would like to make the site more 'newbie' friendly - what would you hope to find there?

Thanks,
Steve, FV80
If you prefer, you can reply directly to me at my email - Steve at WedgeRacing dot com

[sracing]

Thanks that looks like exactly what I need. Also they are in Lexington so are there many FV guys in KY?

Austin, There are a few in Lexington (and a few FST racers). However this part of the country (MI, WI, OH, IL, and south) are loaded with them. THis is a great area to race FV or FST depending upon where you live. Give us a call and we can give you more info.

Jim
SR Racing
859-252-2496

[BLS]

Austin, you have received some good advice in the responses. I will add a little to it. I was pretty young when I started in FV. I'm much older now and working to get back in after a long abscence. In my opinion the best way to learn is to find someone that can use your help and start out that way. You'll help get the car prepared, go to the races, etc. In the process you will learn much that will reduce the intimidation factor. Once you step into the car and go to your first drivers school you will be much more comfortable. I spent a couple years helping my friend. The truth is, it was some of the most memorable years of my life, as much as the later racing years as a driver.

There is a lot to learn and, typically, FV racers are more than willing to share.

[Alr11606]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm starting to see what I need I'm going to visit mdwracer tomorrow and talk to him about some of this.

Thanks again,
Austin

[sracing]

pm sent
Mike

Oh oh.. He is going FF.

[Alr11606]

I really want to go to a national level if eventually possible. From what I've been told by other members FST is not national. But if you can prove FST is a more logical option for a beginner like me I will take that route.

[Bill Bonow]

Austin,

Class designation/terminology is critical. If when you say FF, do you mean Formula F (formerly Formula Ford) or Formula First (designation FST)?

FST is a Regional class, FF is a National class

FST is a low cost class, FF (at a National level) is going to cost a few bucks more.

Both are starter classes, but FF is more advanced (read $$$).

Do you have a budget at this point?

[Alr11606]

Austin,

Class designation/terminology is critical. If when you say FF, do you mean Formula F (formerly Formula Ford) or Formula First (designation FST)?

FST is a Regional class, FF is a National class

FST is a low cost class, FF (at a National level) is going to cost a few bucks more.

Both are starter classes, but FF is more advanced (read $$$).

Do you have a budget at this point?

sorry I ment FST I have about 4000 for a car and trailer saved. Also Is formula ford a bad class to start? Could i get my foot in the door on my budget

[Bill Bonow]

Austin,

No problem, lots of classes and lots of class designations

Formula F is a great class, but I'm afraid $4k won't get you very far. I think FV or FST is your best bet, but you'll need to save up a little more before you're on the race track. I still think that a road trip over to Lexington is a good idea. They have raced FV, FST, FC and a few fender cars as well over the past 20 years or so. Jim or Greg can give you a good idea of what all you need (beyond the car/trailer) to go racing. My bet is that Jim won't even charge you to walk through the shop

They are good guys and will help to answer tons of questions before you spend a dime.

[smsazzy]

What!?!? He charged me!

[Amon]

Austin,

There's a FV for sale on this website for (Zink Z-12) $2500 that needs some minor work, but would make a nice car for your budget. If possible, head over to the SR Racing shop in Lexington and I'm sure they can be of help to you.
Either way, welcome to the site and maybe you'll meet up with my son and I
at an SCCA driver's school since he's getting his license this year (either Beaverun
or Gingerman) TBD.....


Mark

P.S: There's also a Citation FV slider for sale for $1500 in Cincy that would
make a nice vee once you add a beam, tranny and motor etc....

[problemchild]

Austin,
If I can make the suggestion, you should hook up with someone local to you who needs some crew help, and work with them to learn about racing. If you prove responsible, hard-working, and dedicated, they can let you use their car for the driving school process. I would go visit different people in different formula classes and find the car that interests you and the people who you connect with. I would check out local karting as well. Go see more than just one person or class. Everybody thinks their class has special people, but every class has great people. Find them!
Good luck!

[hojof1]

lots of good advice,

you're a young man and have lots of time on your side, spending time crewing for someone will show you the ropes and prepare you to avoid many a pitfalls you haven't even considered yet.

if you do decide to get a car now and get going, do not cheap out on safety gear, protect yourself first then go racing. if your budget cant allow for that i'd say you aren't quite ready yet.

regardless hope you find youre way to the track soon

[sracing]

What!?!? He charged me!

Yes, but we let you take a soda.

Jim
SR

[sracing]

I have about 4000 for a car and trailer saved. Also Is formual ford a bad class to start? Could i get my foot in the door on my budget

As Bill suggested, stop by the store here in Lex. We can show you some cars and you can even look around at Helmets, Fire Suits, etc, and get an idea on what is available and what your costs will be. We have everything you need at the best pricing. (and you can try it on before you buy.)

Whether you go FV, FST, FF, Spec Miata or GT-1 we have been there done that.

Jim
SR Racing

[lawyerbob]

P.S: There's also a Citation FV slider for sale for $1500 in Cincy that would
make a nice vee once you add a beam, tranny and motor etc....

Actually I think it's a FST Slider. But I suppose it could go back to Vee as well.

[lawyerbob]

To the OP - I envy you being able to get started at such a young age. I'm MUCH older but relatively new to road racing.

Based on the information you've provided, it would seem that budget is the real constraining issue. Mine too.

I would truly truly love to race FF, but your budget will not even get you into a solid Club Ford (which is a regional class). Trust me - mine won't either and I've looked. On your budget at this point, a National FF effort is just not realistic.

If your goal for the next couple seasons is track time and learning to drive, I don't think you can go wrong with either FV or FST. If "National" racing is a key issue for you, then FST is not for you. However, if you want "National" level competition on a much lower budget - then FST is exactly where you want to be. Just be forewarned that at least for a little while yet, in order to really have someone to race with (at a high level) you'll need to travel the circuit with the Series. From where you are located that's not terrible, and you could probably work a nice deal with SRacing for transport and car prep - talk to Jim.

If you feel you MUST race Nationals - then you'll need two things - more dollars, and, well, more dollars. And you'll have to go the FV route.

the nice thing about either FV or FST is both are "old technology" so you don't need the newest and greatest to have fun and be competitive. The FST series has demomstrated that older FV convert cars can and do win, including championships. With FV - the $ between regional and national are engines and tires - that's about it. Whether you buy a 10 year old or 30 year old chassis probably won't make a huge difference in your performance - set-up and prep will, as will the level of engine you can afford and the amount you wish to spend on tires.

continue to spend time in the FV and FST sections of this forum - you've found the right place to get the info.

Get out and get the seat time in either class. Take advantage of the help that will be available to you. Watch, listen and learn. But most of all, get seat time. The rest will come.

my two cents/

[provamo]

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49445


buy this car and put it together, get a tow vehicle and all the necessary service, pit, and safety equipment................and let it sit because you do not have the budget or the physical help to RACE it

at this point unless you have a patron or family money you will have to reassess your dream

for the money you are talking about you could auto-x or hillclimb occassionally until your race budget expands to match your desires

alternatively, just "go for it" as i did when i was a teen..........lots of great memories

wishing you success in your quest

[lawyerbob]

buy this car and put it together, get a tow vehicle and all the necessary service, pit, and safety equipment................and let it sit because you do not have the budget or the physical help to RACE it

at this point unless you have a patron or family money you will have to reassess your dream

for the money you are talking about you could auto-x or hillclimb occassionally until your race budget expands to match your desires

alternatively, just "go for it" as i did when i was a teen..........lots of great memories

wishing you success in your quest

With all due respect, I think this is the wrong attitude. Yes, his budget is still a little light, but look at what we've got - a 16 year old how has managed to accumulate $4K!!! toward a racecar. That's no small feat and says to me he's serious. He also sought out this forum to get good information.

Does he have a way to go? sure - will he need to find more $ - sure - but aren't we all in the situation? At the beginning of each season I have no idea where the funds will come from for the whole year - I go race by race and have fun along the way.

We are (in other threads) talking about how to bring new blood to our sport. Here we have someone who is clearly serious about racing. Let's not throw cold water on him just yet.

just my opinion.

[Alr11606]

As much as I wanted to start racing now I realise I can't afford it. But I am now working for a race team and learning the ropes. I'm going to keep saving and (Dont flame me) I'm probably going to go to a Club Formula Ford. From what I've researched the tire cost per season alone will level out the intial cost fairly quick. I'm also going to see how I do at regionals and then If I can compete I'll try to get a newer Formula Ford and try out national level racing.

Thanks for all the info everyone,
-Austin

[lawyerbob]

As much as I wanted to start racing now I realise I can't afford it. But I am now working for a race team and learning the ropes. I'm going to keep saving and (Dont flame me) I'm probably going to go to a Club Formula Ford. From what I've researched the tire cost per season alone will level out the intial cost fairly quick. I'm also going to see how I do at regionals and then If I can compete I'll try to get a newer Formula Ford and try out national level racing.

Thanks for all the info everyone,
-Austin

No flames - cluib ford looks like a fun class. But don't discount FST - similar tire rules/costs and MUCH lower costs of upkeep and crash damage repair.

Good luck with whatever you do!

Bob

[sracing]

I'm probably going to go to a Club Formula Ford.-Austin

Not a bad choice, but I thought you wanted to do Nationals? While a Club Ford could be restickered to be a National (with sticky tires etc.) you would still be Regional (same as FST at this time.) Yes, Your budget will be close to FST in CFF as long as you don't do any track damage.

[dc]

Hmmm... A Club Ford motor will cost you more than $4000. The pain of FF or CF is the motor technology is old and very expensive. At least the motor tech in FV is not very expensive, even if it's really old.

I went through struggling to get to the track a few years ago in both FF and FV, and FV is a LOT easier to make your dream a reality. FST, though a Regional class, is still something you should consider. More speed then a FV (close to a CF), less operating costs because some of the FV shortcomings have been circumvented, and your tire issues are removed with a spec tire, like FC.

I'd look to FST if I were to be in a position to try to get back to the track on a limited budget.



Also, one of the things most young guys don't realize, and this is a terribly hard lesson to learn, is that you have to be 100% in the frame of mind to be able to right off everything you own on the first turn of the first lap of the first track session. Ball it up and wreck the car, and you are out all of your money and left with a wadded up car. You have to be mentally prepared for that, otherwise you're not ready to race.

[lawyerbob]

Also, one of the things most young guys don't realize, and this is a terribly hard lesson to learn, is that you have to be 100% in the frame of mind to be able to right off everything you own on the first turn of the first lap of the first track session. Ball it up and wreck the car, and you are out all of your money and left with a wadded up car. You have to be mentally prepared for that, otherwise you're not ready to race.

Doug is 100% right, but it's a lot harder to "total" an FV/FST than a CF/FF - an entire new front beam on an FV/FST is less costly than one corner on the others. I'm also pretty sure the FV transaxle is a tad cheaper than the Hewland set-up.

[Amon]

ALR11606,

There's a FST (citation) slider for sale on this website for $1500(?) that would
make a good start towards getting into racing. Add the remainder of the "must
have" equipment as the money becomes available and you'll be one step closer
to making it on the track. Good luck in your efforts!

Mark

[sracing]

. I'm also pretty sure the FV transaxle is a tad cheaper than the Hewland set-up.

Yes, about 5X times cheaper.

[sracing]

ALR11606,
There's a FST (citation) slider for sale on this website for $1500(?) that would
make a good start towards getting into racing.
Mark

Mark is right. You have some time before you plan to start racing. Getting one like that and you will having plenty of time and $ budgeting to complete it. There is lots of help available for you here and here: http://formula-first.org/ .

If you have the room, some mechanical abilty this is an excellent idea. You will complete the car learning from your experience so later maintenance will be a non-issue for you. Plus, as it moves along you will have that motivation setting in your garage waiting for you to get in it.

[problemchild]

As much as I wanted to start racing now I realise I can't afford it. But I am now working for a race team and learning the ropes. I'm going to keep saving and (Dont flame me) I'm probably going to go to a Club Formula Ford. From what I've researched the tire cost per season alone will level out the intial cost fairly quick. I'm also going to see how I do at regionals and then If I can compete I'll try to get a newer Formula Ford and try out national level racing.

Thanks for all the info everyone,
-Austin

That's a good choice. That is one of the lower cost classes around. If you are working for a team, you will meet hundreds of racing people and get exposure to different classes. You can decide your best course of action. I would delay buying a car and try and piggyback on people you know and meet for as long as you can. With the advanced age of most SCCA racers, there are plenty of people who are eager to help out a young man who is enthusiastic, responsible, and dedicated. Good luck!

[provamo]

alternatively, just "go for it" as i did when i was a teen..........lots of great memories

wishing you success in your quest

************************************************** ***********************

i did not flame the dude!