Include some FFs in Club Ford?

[Zink CF 61]

The Club Ford drivers of the WDC region are considering changing the Club Ford rules for the MARRS races to include other Formula Fords. The majority of drivers favor letting any Formula Ford run as a Club Ford, but with a 1200 pound minimum weight. The traditional Club Fords would continue to use the 1100 pound minimum weight.

How about some comments. Is a 100 pound penalty too much? Too little? Should we limit it to Formula Fords older than 1990? At least 5 years old? Leave the rules alone? Got any other ideas?

Do you have an old Formula Ford that you might pull out of the garage and run?

Any ideas and comments will be appreciated.

[EYERACE]

well of course my 2 cents worth is.....just run 'em all as FF

[Roland Johnson]

The 100#'s will not achieve the results you want. The biggest problem is that the newer Fords have a huge aero advantage. This has been discussed before.

[M.L.Sauce]

If you have a car, race it.Don't let your ego about being competitive slow you down.When I first started running FF I had a Crossle 35 then I got a 84 Reynard.It took me 1 season to get .5 of second faster in the Reynard.After that I got a brand new Swift DB1 and it took me the first 6 race weekends in the Swift to equal the Reynard times.Aero is important but not the most important factor.I have been beaten by Crossle 32-35's in the Reynard and the Swift.One of the reasons FF numbers have suffered has to do with the dilution of the FF class itself.It is still a drivers class.Almost any car that is 1977 and newer can be somewhat competitive.If aero is so important how do the new Van Diemens compete with the Stohr and the Swift DB1 and DB6.The Van Diemens have equal or better grip but not as good aero.,they are competitive with other new cars.

[Dave Dexter]

Guys its the wing nut in the seat. In the NE Treadway in his 79 VD, Rand in his Crossle 30, Taylor in his PRS are the class of the field at Lime Rock. Sure being formilur with the track is everything but they spank just about evryone regardless of chassis. Come on out and give them a try.

[EYERACE]

ask yourself ....why did CF come into existence to begin with ? ....i'll bet it's got some timing coincidence to the birth of the Swift....a few drivers that began to consistently lose to swifts said let's form our own class for older cars perhaps.....i hope someone else that is better informed than me comments here, 'cuz i'm just guessing. if you want to race, just badge 'em all FF and let's go, but some people just gotta have that trophy or they'll stay home...their loss.

[Roland Johnson]

CF came into existance in San Diego SCCA when the Crossle 32 series cars came out. We had pretty full and competetive fields. The owners of the old Merlyns, Lolas, Winkelmans,etc realized their cars were not competetive with the Crossle's. We formed CF to be able to compete with a chance of winning, instead of finishing somewhere in the top 10. Since CF and FF still race in the same run group (at least out here), you still have the same number of cars to compete with. If someone doesn't wish to run CF, why should it bother them if others do? Yes, I have beaten a lot of Swifts, etc with my CF, but that just means that the Swifts were not prepared or driven very well.

[John Merriman]

In the Northeast, we established CLUB FORD in 1984 because there had been a quantum leap in chassis technology which made ton of cars far less competitive the they were only a few years before. Rather than relegate all those early cars to the back of the grid, a logical, reasonable, workable solution was derived. In England they had done the same by establishing the "Pre-78" class.
At the same time, we wanted to have a spec tire to lower costs to this Regional Class and we tested to assure we could get a dozen or so heat cycles without a big drop off in lap times.
Not to be overly dramatic, guys, but THE REST IS HISTORY - as they say! The CF class was and is a great success. In the late 80's, we had our own Race Group at Bryar and LRP. Sometimes we had 35 cars - in CF alone. A few times, we had to have a "consolation" race - there were so many cars entered. We still have great CF fields - even today and we run with full groups with combined classes - even with the wing cars at WGI.
Sure it's nice to hear stories about how certain CF cars whip the fast boys now and then. But that's not the point. The establishment of CF is a SUCCESS. IT WORKS. Its creation was in response to a need. The competitors supported it and all the Regions had to do was come up with three more trophies per weekend. Where to make the cut-off date? Well, that's another issue. In SF Region, they have Spec Ford as another level of chassis technology. Hey, if it works for the competitor (that's us) then great. Do it. We did and we like it. And we ain't goin' back, Eye!!

[size="1"][ November 07, 2003, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: John Merriman ][/size]

[Larry]

Chuck,

About 5-6 years ago we had a magnificent crop of CF drivers at Summit Point; Jeff Duncan, Bob Berman, Tim Minor, and a relative newcomer in Andy Chu. When they were in CF, there was NEVER a time when an FF finished ahead of them in a regional race. In fact, there were a couple of CF drivers who chose to run in FF, because they had less competition.

If you want larger CF fields, let more cars run, and don't use an arbitrary 100-pound penalty. The biggest single difference is in tires, so put all CFs on some hard-compound tire and let 'em go. The winner will be the guy who spends some time to dial in the car/tire combination, and not the guy who spends the most for a new chassis.

A slippery silhouette isn't that important at Summit. We don't have a mile-long straight. If you really feel that you must have a cut-off, I'd use 1992, as post-92 cars generally went to pushrods instead of rockers.

Good luck!

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Steve Maxwell]

Obviously the following only applies to regional racing and not Nationals. This is a drivers class. if you can drive it does not matter if you're in a Swift, 03'VD etc... on GY120's or or in a Crossle 35 or PRS etc... on GY600's. On a hot day at LRP there is maybe 1 second difference in lap times between Mike Rand on GY600's in his Crossle and Art Foster on his 01 VD on soft Hoosiers. If your driving gets to the piont where the car is a distinct (dis)advantage then either trade up or go clubford racing and finish in the top five in FF anyway. I think the NE region's FF/CF is the best solution. the fast guys win thier classes anyway. If you need a trophy that bad go buy one. It's cheaper that way!

[EYERACE]

thanks for the info - exactly the kind of thing i was asking for > past happenings, i was wrong about the Swift it would appear. To hear that it was the Crossle that helped precipitate the change is flattering....like i sometimes say > "like eye know anything"

[Zink CF 61]

Thanks everyone, for the constructive and positive comments! WDCR drivers have decided to go into 2004 with no changes to the rules.

Initially the majority of our drivers wanted to include all other FFs, but with a 100 pound increase in the minimum weight. However, after reviewing the results of a questionnaire that I sent out we found that, between new drivers joining the class and a projected increase in the number of races by current drivers, we should have double the number of race entries for next season. Thus if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Making tire compound the only differentiation between CF and FF has strong appeal; however, the reason that we didn't seriously consider it was that it would tend to lock us into hard compound tires (choice of GY 600, Hoosier 60 or American Racer). There are a few local drivers that would like to return to soft tires. If tires are the only differentiation between CF and FF, then a return to soft tires would effectively eliminate the class.

We still retain all of the options for implementing change in future years.

Chuck Van Nostrand
WDCR CF Driver Representative
1978 Zink 61