New to FFord

[dfrazer]

I am considering taking the leap from karting to F1600.

I know little about 1600 but want to get educated on diferences in chasis, vintage vs modern era, cost of the two, expected budgets, etc...

I could be considered a "recreational driver". I enjoy the sport but don't have an interest in dedicating every waking moment to it.

Can some one point in a direction to gather this info?

[John Robinson]

your best bet is to check the old FFU. I am sure someone will post a link. Other then that I believe there is alos some talk about this in the archive section below.

My opinion is that other then initial upfront cost it is about the same to run a competitive ff or cf effort. Parts are avail for both types but you might have to search a little harder for cf parts.

[John Merriman]

Go to the SCCA website at www.scca.com and locate your Region under "Region Websites". From there, you can reach others in your area who run in the Club Ford or Formula Ford classes. Try to get to a Regional race and access the paddock via a regular ticket or under a Guest Pass which can be obtained by talking to the various SCCA officials in your Region. There is no better way to experience the sport and to find out about it in detail than to actually attend an event. The FFU site (Formula Ford Underground) can be found by waiting for the link to come up in the upper right hand corner of this site. There is a mountain of info on that site - which is an archive only and is not an active site. Also, go through the archive on the FF1600 site which can be accessed from the home page - in the index. Good luck. You've been fortunate enough to have homed in on the greatest amateur racing class in the world!!

[bob darcey]

There are sterotypes of the differences between the vintage groups and the SCCA, but I think you should visit the SCCA events and the vintage events in your area. Approach some of the FF racers and see what you find. Vintage cars tend to be in the $15K-20K range, SCCA Club Fords tend to be $7L-10K and the modern SCCA FF's are somewhat more expensive.

I believe the vintage club you have in your area is VSCDA (Vintage Sports Car Drivers Association). The link for the Formula Ford Underground is http://pub138.ezboard.com/bformulafordunderground

[Frank C]

There is going to be an SCCA race weekend at Grattan Raceway near you on 5/24-25. It includes two days of Formula Ford racing in the East-West Challenge Series. It should be a great place to talk to some FF drivers and see some good racing. Contact Steve Beeler, the series organizer about whether it is a spectator or non-spectator event. If it is non-spectator, he can probably arrange to get you on someone’s crew list or enlist you as a temporary SCCA worker.
Steve Beeler: (734)416-8865/thebeelers@peoplepc.com
Grattan info: http://www.wmr-scca.org/jz10grattan.htm

- Frank C

Edit: I e-mailed Steve to let him know I suggested contacting him and he invites you to contact him and attend. Looking at cars and talking to people is the best way to find out what's going on. It's a lot more fun than reading about it on the web!

[size="1"][ May 11, 2003, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Frank C ][/size]

[Dane Whaley]

Grattan is an excellent idea. You'll probably find the greatest concentration of FF/CFF experience in the midwest there on those days.

I'm in the process of relocating to St. Joseph (Stevensville). I'm relocated now, but my FF is still in Illinois. The car will be here by the end of May. I've run both regionals and nationals in FF, and also run a 125 shifter kart (newbie). Maybe we can meet and swap FF/Kart experience some evening! Let me know if you can.

dwhaley@mjelectric.com

[dfrazer]

Thanks for all of the help!

Now for the big questions. Because every car for sale sounds like it just came of the assembly line, (most adds say "just gone through engine"), do I trust it or buy a roller and a new engine for it so I know what I have?

From a cost stand point, what is more effective?

Also, I am 6'4" tall and weigh 220lbs. Will this be a problem finding a chasis?

[Murray]

Ah yes, the $64,000 dollar question. I bought my car as a roller and bought a very good back up motor later to go with it. That is not a bad way to go, but If I were doing it again I think a good running car is the preferable way to go. Keep in mind that as you suspected the motor is probably pretty well used regardless of how it is billed. The thing is that you have a period of learning to get through with your FF. You will make goofs that will be hard on the motor and being down a few HP won't matter until you get up to speed. The point is if you get the price down based on the engine not a known quantity, then you have a great learning car and when you are getting competitive then get yourself a good motor.

[Dave Harmison]

As someone that went through that whole issue many years ago, I would say that regardless of how the engine is advertised that a name brand is even more important. Buying a car with an off-brand "I built it myself" or "the guy that wins with small block chevys" motor in it will cost you. It will probably be illegal AND down on power. Look for a Loyning, Andreson, Dixon, Farley, Quicksilver, et.al. Once you have a reputable builders name, call the builder and ask him when it was last look at and if it's really his work and how to recognize one of his motors. Most stamp numbers somewhere to keep track of the motors. This will save you lots of money in the long run.

[Larry]

First, buy a common car--one that you can get spares for. Forget the ultra-low production rate cars. There's nothing worse than having to pay $1,000 and miss most of the season while you wait for someone to custom-fab a rear upright for your '93 Delerium FF.

Second, buy the car from someone you can trust. Local is better, as the seller may be able to help you get started. You can also ask other racers if the seller is a good person to deal with.

Third, unless the seller can show you a fresh receipt from a major engine-builder, assume that the engine is run-out, and that you'll need to put a quick $1,000 in it (and maybe more). It doesn't matter if it was a QuickSilver, Ivey, Dixon or whoever if it was built by them 10 years ago and has since been maintained by the owner--it is now a backyard engine, and not worth a premium price.

Fourth, I don't have a problem with backyard engines. At the regional level, reliability is the key. The major builders are getting about $2K/each for the last 2-3 hp that they can get out of the motor. At the national level, you may need to pay it; regionally, a good driver will overcome an average driver that has a few more horses. You can put the money to better use by doing practice sessions and developing the car and your knowledge of set-up! First, master car handling, as you can always buy the hp.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Steve Bjelke]

I see no one has addressed your chassis size question; I'm a newbie too (one year behind the wheel) and also 6-4. If you're interested in Vintage, you might want to look at a Winkelman. There's one for sale at http://www.vscr.org/frmads.html .
My LeGrand fits well but it took a lot of help from the seller to make it work.
Maybe some of the more experienced contributors could advise you about CF or FF.

[lowflyer]

Concerning both the cost and the size questions, I might suggest that you look for a Zink Z10. They are reasonably priced, tough and fairly large. I'm 6' 2" and 240 and fit in mine just fine.

[Larry]

As a general rule, older cars (CF and early 80s) are wider than the current generation, but that isn't the entire answer. You've really got to sit in the car and see where the roll hoop braces hit you. If the car is one you like, but the braces hit you in the wrong spot, you could possibly change them, but expect to pay someone to do several hours worth of design and labor. I'd budget between $500 and $1,000 for the job.

The Z-10 is a wide, comfortable car, as are most Reynards. Early Van Diemens are good. Most any of the vintage cars are good--I've had smaller hotel rooms than my Lotus!

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Jeff Read]

When addressing size , do not forget about your shoe size. If you are 6'4" that probably means that you have at least a size 12. Could be a problem in some cars.

I do not race a FF but rather an S2.My first race car was a Tiga sc85 sports 2000. I'm 6'4" 240 with size 12 feet. And in my Tiga I had to wear a size 10 racing boot to fit in the car. (not just foot lenght but width is a real problem). Alot of European race cars a designed for a smaller build.

My car now is a Swift db2 .And I am wearing a size 12 boot again. My feet thank me for buying a car that fits me better.

Good Luck,

Jeff Read
Swift DB2 #18 SF Region

[Darryl Horrocks]

I'm a newbie too, I'm wondering how feasable is it to fabricate a chassis. I have experience fabricating suspension and am an experienced cnc machinist. Just curious is this done, and where would you get information about this.

[Garey Guzman]

When you consider the costs of buying the pieces seperately, you'd be better off (both time and money) to buy an existing car. Even a competative DB-1 can be had for a reasonable price.

I'd suggest checking out the local tracks and seeing what cars are running with some success, then check prices. I think that by the time you buy an engine, transaxle, shocks, etc., then design and build the chassis and suspension, you'll have spent a small fortune.

[Comp89]

Darryl!
In addition to Garey's comments, you will spend lots of time trying to develop the car to be competitive. It is easier/cheaper to buy a used one and work with it.
Since you are from Windsor Ont, why not drop by the next races 28/29 Jun in Mosport or Toronto Indy and see what the guys are running. Also one of the best place in Canada to buy parts for FF is Britain West in Brantford.

[Smallville]

I'm 6'5" inches tall, and I have made about every mistake I can think of in this sport. Here's my advice about cars and engines and stuff. After owning 2 Van Diemens, I bought a Crossle 32f project which I had built up by Neal Porter. It is far and away the best car I've ever driven. Neal is a Crossle expert (if there is such a thing). If you are mechanical or know someone who knows how to build this type of racing car, you can probably save yourself some money. Even with my legs the Crossle is comfortable. It is easy to drive, and parts are readily available. Get coaching. Even a session or two. Track time is also essential. Get out to test days. Get a professionally built engine with a new steel crank. Mine is from Jay Ivey. He does a great job. Don't skimp on tires. When they've gone off get new ones. I started racing with a great guy named Ken Dye. Kenny and the boys in ICSCC always tried to convince me that skimping on racing would leave me poor and frustrated instead of just poor. They were right. Mike

[R. Pare]

Major tip #1 on what to expect when buying a used old(er) car :

Expect to tear the car down to the bare frame and spend $1-2K more on fixing the multiple screwups that are endemic to older cars before it ever turns a wheel. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but they are damned rare.

To not heed to that rule is to not only put a lot of hard-earned cash at risk, but your life as well.

Major tip #2 :

Expect to spend an extra $1-2K on updating the various safety systems - belts, adding a nosebox, interior padding, a proper seat, shoulder supports, etc.

To not heed to that rule is to not only put a lot of hard-earned cash at risk, but your life as well.