Las Vegas Region SCCA

[marshall9]

All the banter regarding SCCA vs. other Sanctions, and can SCCA survive and why it will/won't, has me thinking and wondering. This is not a why I choose not to race with SCCA thread, but rather a question, I guess. I might be able to find the answer by digging into some regional sanctioning rules somewhere, but choose to pose it here instead. Given, that SCCA is a non-for-profit club, etc., what is their mission and what is the Las Vegas Region doing do carry it out ? I have been thinking about all the threads that I have read and posted in on regarding SCCA, and something came to me...I forget where or when I recently saw someone post something about "Being able to race all over the Country and no other sanctioning body can offer that" as a reason to choose SCCA as their home. That kind of hit home with me. When I get bored with the same old laps at the same old track, where do I go as a Phoenix resident? Well, the answer is, I have to travel. But, before I do, I have to find another series, make sure I comply(licensing), my car complies, and factor travel expenses into it. Yes, SCCA is an answer. My question is, why is SCCA, Las Vegas Region, allowed to exist having not hosted any road races in years? Do they generate enough income to meet some "Standard" for the Club through Autocrossing only? When your neighbor sees your car and asks the inevitable question "How fast does it go?" What do you say? "Well, it goes 140, but this weekend I am going to board the pets, pack up the family and go to Las Vegas so I can drive around a parking lot"? If VARA, F2000/F1600 West Coast series can figure out how to have successful events at LVMS, why can't SCCA?

[Dave Gomberg]

...
My question is, why is SCCA, Las Vegas Region, allowed to exist having not hosted any road races in years? Do they generate enough income to meet some "Standard" for the Club through Autocrossing only?...

SCCA has many of its over 100 regions that do not hold Club Racing events. Most of those regions hold only Solo II (autocross) events. Some also put on Road Rallies, and, recently, Rally Crosses. They do so primarily because there are no tracks in their area. I can't speak to the specifics of the Las Vegas region, but if you really want to know, you should contact them and ask about their situation. Contact information is here: http://lvrscca.org/?page_id=176

Dave

[Rick Kirchner]

San Diego has been pretty much an autocross club since the demise of their old airfield track at Holtville out east in the desert. Now that Chuckwalla is a possibility, will be interesting to see if they host races again.

[marshall9]

San Diego has been pretty much an autocross club since the demise of their old airfield track at Holtville out east in the desert. Now that Chuckwalla is a possibility, will be interesting to see if they host races again.

With all respect due, We aren't talking about San Diego, Rick

[marshall9]

SCCA has many of its over 100 regions that do not hold Club Racing events. Most of those regions hold only Solo II (autocross) events. Some also put on Road Rallies, and, recently, Rally Crosses. They do so primarily because there are no tracks in their area. I can't speak to the specifics of the Las Vegas region, but if you really want to know, you should contact them and ask about their situation. Contact information is here: http://lvrscca.org/?page_id=176

Dave

I'm down with SCCA being an AutoCross/Solo organization, if that is what the Members want. Let them vote and say it.

[Hardingfv32]

What is the difference if they exist, they do not cost SCCA anything to operate. They are staffed by those in the local region, generally volunteers.

Brian

[marshall9]

[quote=Hardingfv32;288603]What is the difference if they exist, they do not cost SCCA anything to operate. They are staffed by those in the local region, generally volunteers.

Okay, I get it.

Cool. So long as no-one wants to race. The only problem I see is if a couple of MEN decide to settle things with a few laps on Da' Ole Tracky !

[marshall9]

SCCA has many of its over 100 regions that do not hold Club Racing events. Most of those regions hold only Solo II (autocross) events. Some also put on Road Rallies, and, recently, Rally Crosses. They do so primarily because there are no tracks in their area. I can't speak to the specifics of the Las Vegas region, but if you really want to know, you should contact them and ask about their situation. Contact information is here: http://lvrscca.org/?page_id=176

Dave

Wow. How about racing? I respect all of that, but initially, SCCA was a place to race your SportsCar. Now, all of this cone-talk, makes me feel like it's all about being a conehead. You're right, I should cone-tact them and find out how many entries it takes to keep a Region alive while not having a Road-Race...

[Bob Clark]

Wow. How about racing? I respect all of that, but initially, SCCA was a place to race your SportsCar. Now, all of this cone-talk, makes me feel like it's all about being a conehead. You're right, I should cone-tact them and find out how many entries it takes to keep a Region alive while not having a Road-Race...

Probably a LOT less than a region that road races. A LOT less expenses than a region that road races..

[Dave Gomberg]

There is no requirement for a region to put on Club Races. There is no minimum level of activity (that is, how many events or how much revenue). And, for your information, races were not the first competitive activities when SCCA was first organized - gymkhannas and rallies came before races.

Dave

[Steve Demeter]

With the cost of track rentals and other expenses to put on a road race going through the roof and car counts down the last several years, there are some regions getting out of road racing entirely.

Fort Wayne comes to mind in the GLDIV.

For years the Brat Bash was a fixture at Mid Ohio.

Then they moved to Gingerman in an attempt to make it financially feasible and the results were such that they dicided to stop road racing and concentrate on Solo and Street Survival.

Lots of road races lose money. And there is lots more money to be lost on a road race than a Solo event.

That is the bottom line why some regions are no longer doing road races.

[marshall9]

Question answered. SCCA is not just a road-racing club.

[Daryl DeArman]

nevermind

[rickb99]

Wow. How about racing? I respect all of that, but initially, SCCA was a place to race your SportsCar....

THAT is a FACT! And one of the 'hot places' to do that racing was in Arizona when the SCCA President and Secretary lived in Tucson during the 50's and 60's Yes we used cones but it was to designate the width of the straight and define coners on the airport runways.

[marshall9]

"There is no requirement for a region to put on Club Races. There is no minimum level of activity (that is, how many events or how much revenue). And, for your information, races were not the first competitive activities when SCCA was first organized - gymkhannas and rallies came before races."

'No minimum level of activity' ? Are you serious?

So we can just sit around holding hands and singing "Kumbaja" so long as we call ourselves SCCA?

There is not a financial planner/accountant/banker/investor on the planet that would back a business plan like this. An SCCA Region is a business, for profit or not.

Folks, this is the problem.

[Mark_Silverberg]

I beg to differ, business models which change based on local conditions are the cornerstone of many modern national chains. You do not see the same size Subway sandwich shops in all locations. Some are just a counter in a gas station.

SCCA is not solely a racing club - there are many activities for a variety of interest and levels of time and monetary comitment. Some people remain members for merely social reasons. In fact, active club racers are in the minority and many of these other members help subsidize club racing with their membership dues.

Racing is a major ependiture in both money and time. Some people want to be involved and other activities such as Solo II and Rally provide an introduction to the club at a more casual level. An orginization which would require the initial expenditure level of club racing to be involved in any activity would be doomed to failure.

Similar to individuals, some regions do not have the interest or ability to be involved in a club racing program. It can require a high initial up front investment as well as a major financial exposure from operations. Regions are volunteer organizations so if there is not sufficient interest within a region there will not be a racing program.

Region racing programs ebb and flow based on a number of situations - track availability, member interest, financial heath, an viability of other programs.

The Las Vegas situation seems strange as there has been a track in the region for many years - but there are often many factors that influence such a decision. That is why it is always best to talk to people in the regions if you have questions regarding the choices which have been made.

[Daryl DeArman]

My LVMS perspective...

The situation at LVMS, as I understand it, is the "roval" configuration was significantly changed after additional garages were constructed in the paddock area.

There is still a road course inside the oval, but it is very small and isn't situated to offer an easy off the oval-back onto the oval transition without utilizing 80+% of the oval and that wouldn't be much fun in all our low HP road race cars.

The track outside of LVMS was also changed around the same time. It is a fun road course, fairly technical, but paddock space is rather limited as are the run-off areas (certainly could support your typical regional/national though. As VARA and Pacific FF2000 run a combined event there every year. There is also just about zero elevation changes there for those who like those sorts of features (I do)

The LVMS complex doesn't really need the extra revenue from the SCCA as they have the NHRA drags there, the WoO, NASCRAP, IRL, dirt and pavement short tracks, a motor-x track, and a kart track, a racing experience/school as well.

[Roland V. Johnson]

Vegas used to have a racing program. When the outside track got changed, and other problems, including not enough entries from the L A. area they got out of racing business, since the racing could not support itself. The old outside track was fun. It was shortened and made into a Mickey Mouse course to make way for construction.

[Rick Kirchner]

So I don't get it Marshall. Do you want to race, or do you want to race at LVMS? Because Chuckwalla is 100 miles closer to Phoenix than LVMS.

Heck, it's 40 miles farther, but the same drive time, to Fontana from Phoenix. There's even a track near Deming, NM that's about the same time and distance.

Really, if you are in the desert southwest it's VARA and HSR if you want a decent formula car count.

[Charles Warner]

"There is no requirement for a region to put on Club Races. There is no minimum level of activity (that is, how many events or how much revenue). And, for your information, races were not the first competitive activities when SCCA was first organized - gymkhannas and rallies came before races."

'No minimum level of activity' ? Are you serious?

So we can just sit around holding hands and singing "Kumbaja" so long as we call ourselves SCCA?

There is not a financial planner/accountant/banker/investor on the planet that would back a business plan like this. An SCCA Region is a business, for profit or not.

Folks, this is the problem.

A local SCCA region is just that . . . local. Locally owned, locally managed, and locally driven. There are some regions known as rally regions; others as solo/autocross/gymkhana regions; others as racing regions; and, some as social regions. The minimum activity is whatever is needed to maintain the desired level of activity in one's region. If that activity level drops far enough, features change (I.e. a racetrack closes) or any number of social factors occur, the region changes, maybe even dies. The transfer of one individual can be the catalyst that leads to a region's demise.

For the most part, an SCCA region is not a business - it's a club, by definition. It doesn't report to shareholders (unless you determine the members as shareholders. They vote with their feet.) It has to bring in enough money to support its activities. That's all. Sometimes it can't. Some regions are big enough to have paid employees. Most don't have that luxury. If your particular (or chosen) region does not have the activities you desire get on your horse and round up some folks and make it happen. Or not.

[marshall9]

I understand better now, thanks guys. I didn't realize the level of autonomy involved from Region to Region, that's why I asked.

I was under the impression that Regions were kind of like franchises, in that they would have to produce a certain amount of activities/revenue of all types to satisfy Topeka.

[rickb99]

I understand better now, thanks guys. I didn't realize the level of autonomy involved from Region to Region, that's why I asked.....

That's a good thing and a bad. Good in that regions can do pretty much what the local members are in the mood for. But bad in that there are no 'requirements' to provide opportunity's for ALL forms of motor sports that SCCA is known for.

....I was under the impression that Regions were kind of like franchises......

They probably 'should' be more that way.

[azjc]

So I don't get it Marshall. Do you want to race, or do you want to race at LVMS? Because Chuckwalla is 100 miles closer to Phoenix than LVMS.

Heck, it's 40 miles farther, but the same drive time, to Fontana from Phoenix. There's even a track near Deming, NM that's about the same time and distance.

Really, if you are in the desert southwest it's VARA and HSR if you want a decent formula car count.

ProAutoSports is running 10 or more FF this year, I'd say that's a decent count.

[Bchappy]

How interesting,

To see this after a couple of days after registering.
Well I think I am in a position to speak on this subject. Being a regional class champion in AX with LVRSCCA, a driving instructor with many of the schools in the Las Vegas region, and a person that would like to expand the region into something larger.
I originally wanted to form a road racing committee with them however they are not about it it seems.
None of the tracks in the region are sanctioned now which is a shame and would be costly to the owner(s) to prepare them to be from what I hear.
There is an INSANE amount of HPDE guys and an INSANE amount of money out on the track for these drive days.
More and more people are getting the wheel to wheel bug now a days which has led to the members at Spring Mountain Motorsports Park to start a Miata racing series next to a small Radical racing series that has been popular.
I am trying to secure funding and sponsorship to possibly get a seat with a F2000 team and have really tried to push for a road racing arm with our region.
LVMS is non cooperative with LVRSCCA it seems do to possible bad blood and the non-prestige of AX. From what I have heard it is around $5k to rent a non used lot for a AX event per day.
As a employee of one of the schools at LVMS I have become a friend of the President at the speedway and I do believe he would be open to talks about more road racing out there.
The outside road course could definitely use some work but it is not to bad. The racing surface is good and it is a fun setup. Legends race on 1-2 times a month.
The inside road course is about 1.2 miles and also fairly fun as I am on that course 3 times a week.
The Roval is not ever used however it will be used this October and I will be looking forward to running on it with a Time Trial group.
This is just an insider speaking out. We have an immense amount of people that want to race just no where to do it.

[Jerry B.]

You talked Spring Mountain which has not been certified by SCCA as to the reasons you mention. They probably don't care as they have a full plate....but it would be interesting if something would develop there. As I remember when they completed the new track a few years back that the issues were the pit wall and track entrance.
A school track but it's a fun track. A lot of local color in Pharump and some good wrecking yards to peruse. The last time we ran up there was a few years ago and it was 109F....in late afternoon. Just like the outside road course at LVMS you have to bring a generator...and water.......and maybe gas.