Question about handling

[MoonNerd]

After 2 years of racing Grand Prix Legends (mostly F-2 and FD), I'm having to adjust to a few things. The perfect example is exiting 5-B at Mosport. In GPL I was able to slide the car through the corner around the maximum slip angle, then get the power on while the tires were still squeeling. With a little counter-steering this was not a big problem. But when I try the same thing exiting the hairpin int he F-2000 cars, I always end up doing donuts on the grass inside the corner. I'm still underestimating how much the car will rotate with the power on, especially exiting slow corners. Until I get more used to the sim, I tip-toe through the corner with just a spattering of tire squeel, and wait for it to settle before getting on the throttle. Are you guys being aggressive exiting this corner, or are you being fairly careful as well? BTW, I'm assuming the F-2000 is accurate to real life in the way this is modeled.

Thanks for any comments,
Rob

[MoonNerd]

BTW, Doug's description of how he handles 5a and 5b at Mosport was very helpful. Life is much easier without the tire squeel there. I guess its a difference of 1) having wings, and 2) how that part of the track is modeled in the two sims. Man, I love this mod! Thanks again to all who made it happen.

[RusRob]

Rob,

You have to remember that this car doesn't have the power that the GPL cars have, and also the tires have much more grip than the tires made back in 1967.

I know that you can spin the F2000 around easily if you do not have the car and steering wheel pointing in the direction you want to go with the wheels nearly unlocked.

Here is how I go through corners. (I am not a real driver so this may be all "bass ackwards")
(this is just general)
I usually brake late, and downshift. and not try to keep too many rpms up. I set up for the corner by using the weight of the car and the steering wheel to shift the weight to the opposite side of the apex. (just before entering the corner)

I then hold the throttle at aprox 1/2 listening for the tires to start to squeal. I vary the throttle through the corner to maintain my line. As I enter the apex I start to unlock the wheel at the same time I start to apply more power. As soon as the car is pointing the direction I want to go I firmly apply the throttle trying not to break the rear tires loose.

This is basically how I do it, I am sure that one of the real drivers can explain much better.

If you want to slide it through the corners (which I like to do but it isn't the "fast" way).

Set your springs at about 800 lbs Front and Rear.
No sway bars. and play with the balance, (I think about 49% front weight.

You will be able to slide it through the corners at a cost of tire wear. but it is fun!

[MoonNerd]

Thanks for the help. So, would it be safe to say that when you just begin to hear the tire squeel, you've reached the desired "slip angle?"

[MoonNerd]

The softer springs setting was the key. It was treacherous exiting corners before, but now is a dream. Thanks again!

[Maxx]

Originally posted by RusRob:

I then hold the throttle at aprox 1/2 listening for the tires to start to squeal. I vary the throttle through the corner to maintain my line. As I enter the apex I start to unlock the wheel at the same time I start to apply more power. As soon as the car is pointing the direction I want to go I firmly apply the throttle trying not to break the rear tires loose.

Considering your not a driver this is a damn good description of exactly how to drive from turn-in to exit.

To get faster you'd forget the harsh braking and concentrate on upsetting the balance of the car as little as possible. This allows you to start your turn-in as you are easing off the brake (this is not really trail-braking - just braking to the point of turn-in).

This allows you to turn-in at a higher speed (as you have more front-end grip owing to you having greater weight over the front wheels). This means you get tire sqeal (in Heat/GPL) "at" turn-in and you use a balanced throttle (neither accel not decel) to maintain that until such time as you can unwind the lock and feed in more power.

Back to Mosport, the Heat version of 5a/5b is quite bumpy and has no real camber on entry (the GPL one does and I think the real life track does). Also there is a bump on entry which unsettles most cars and Heat is not great at delaing with bumps.

One of the reasons I prefer Heat as a sim than GPL is that, in GPL you can drive the car in ways that would see you off track in real life and you get away with it (in fact, in many ways it makes for a quicker lap). Heat more accurately models the cars reaction to driver input but is less sophisticated in many ways. In summary Heat does what it does very well, GPL "does" more but does less of a good job at the basics and some of the "more" allows unrealistic driving techniques to be used and to actual be of benefit.

Rob : SPRINGS - Bob mentioned use 800lb's all-round and you said the "softer" springs helped ?? what setups are you using. I'm sure mine had softer springs than this, 400/600 I think. This setup is quite loose but should be no problem to a GPL driver like yourself (just give it 1-2 laps top fully warm the tires before pushing).

Maxx

[dc]

I have found on setups in general at most of the new tracks I have been trying, that I start out with a very soft setup and lots of wing. It is easier to get closer right off the bat with a lot of mechanical grip. Stiffen the car up progressively, making one change at a time to see what it does. I get the car fast and comfortable, and stiffen it up until I can't be fast or comfortable. Back it up one notch from there, and I'm usually right at my quickest setup.

Something that some of you may want to also try with these cars, is a bit of a more realistic driving style. For those of you who aren't driving real cars as well, late braking in these cars gets your in trouble quickly. Because these are generally momentum-based cars with lower power (on the scale of formula cars), they don't come of the corners hard like a Champ Car or even an F3 car. Brake in a straight line, and power THROUGH the corners, driving mostly with the right pedal. Brakes kill your lap times, and mashing them only allows your RPMs to drop into a range where it takes a lot of time to get back into the powerband. Heavy braking is only needed into 1st gear corners, usually, and even then, only brake as much as needed to get the car into the apex.

doug

[MoonNerd]

Maxx - I did a poor job of explaining that. I was using your basic setup with 400/600 springs. When Bob mentioned increasing the springs would give even looser setup, I remembered to decrease them for the opposite response. Doug's 390/300 felt better. (So, the "looser" springs referred to Doug's, not the 800s....)

The problem I was having with the 400/600 setup at Mosport was exiting T3(R) and 5b(L). I felt like I was having to be very tentative before getting on the power. Even on warm tires I had the tendency to loop it when trying to exit T3 "like a robber." I was surprised that these two corners were such a pain. At the other tracks I've been driving the 400/600 with no problems, and have been able to turn the car a litle with power-on oversteer exiting the corners. I figure the underlying problem must have been an incorrect driving line through T3 and T5. (Thus the request for replays in another thread.)

Thanks for all the help on this.

[Dave]

Here's something I don't get, why is the heavier spring in front? Shouldn't it be in back to support the weight of the engine?

This was also suggested for my 84 Reynard.

Guess I don't understand some of this theory.