2010 FB Runoffs

[KevinFirlein]

schweitz 8.0
coello 8.7
oberndorf 9.8
dixon 9.9
cooper 10.3

at checker dont know if it changed on last lap or not

[DonArm]

Nope got the results

http://www.livetiming.net/SCCA/RunOf...=1024&Class=FB

Go Citation

[allof6]

Deleted!

[Wren]

Brandon had the rear wing leave the car on the out lap. I managed to get a new one on and brandon got one lap in dodging traffic and on cold tires. All things considered, 4th is ok for our luck.

[VehDyn]

Great job. Looks like its gonna be a great, FAST, race. I hope you guys get some more dry qualies in to let everybody get some good laps. Good luck.

[Purple Frog]

Saw Coop downtown cruisin' the scene with gorgeous and Mr. 8-Ball.

Saw Brandon and Wren workin' on Citations.

Love the aero stuff the FB guys can do.

[KevinFirlein]

Dixon to p2. so now its citation 1-2. Rest of the top runners stayed the same overall

[mario_zgb]

proud of you... after not racing at RA for more than 20 years, not being able to go for test days, without complete crew and only 13 laps there this is outstanding result

congratulation to all competitors there... it takes lots of efforts to be at runoffs

sorry i can't be there and enjoy the thrill with all of you

[RussMcB]

Here is the dyno sheet for Mr. Dean's post # 79 from this thread.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...t=41603&page=2

Looks to be nearly 20 HP over the 2009 GSXR and with a very broad peak.

Any guesses as to what 20 HP and broader HP and torque curves translates into lap times at RA?

I feel guilty rerouting this back to a BMW HP thread, but I ran across this interesting five minute video of GSXR vs. BMW dyno comparison runs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7_4lUwrOCk

Back to the current Runoffs: Man, it's shaping up to be a very interesting race. I shouldn't be surprised to see Tom doing so well (based on his past successes), but I guess I'm accustom to other folks fighting for FB wins at Rd America. The Citation guys must feel good.

I hope JRO's problems are easy to correct. I'm sure they'd like to start getting some laps in. I'm looking forward to seeing how the car does once it's going well.

Good luck everyone. Hope things go as smoothly and fun as possible.

[allof6]

What are the problems with the Bimmer? Any trap speed numbers on the FB

[JohnPaul]

I'd love to see more pictures of the cars! if anyone is there and can, please do it!

[Mike B]

I only have this one. Nothing substantially different on the outside. More pics later.

[VehDyn]

Looks like an airbox intake change. Everybody looks to be wearing the skinnier tires, eh?

[Mike B]

JRO and Oberndorf both have the updated bodywork, but I think it's the same as what they've been running all year (disclamer: I'm not a Stohr expert).

Not many people are running 8/10s, but I think Oberndorf is the only one on 6.5" rears. He said he's 2 sec faster than last time he was here.

[JohnPaul]

I'm wondering what JR's times were on this track with his GSXR. Did they go up or down with the BMW?

I also found these pictures on another thread:

http://picasaweb.google.com/pepperbo...57257881757378

It would also be awesome if there was a good spot for someone to take a video Saturday.

Go Tom!!!

[RussMcB]

I'm wondering what JR's times were on this track with his GSXR. Did they go up or down with the BMW?

I also found these pictures on another thread:

http://picasaweb.google.com/pepperbo...57257881757378

It would also be awesome if there was a good spot for someone to take a video Saturday.

Go Tom!!!

JR does not have any good laps with the BMW yet, so no comparisons are available. Hopefully they'll get laps in during Q3 on Thursday.

Tom seems to be doing pretty well considering his substantial hurdles (new car, new track, Runoffs pressure). During live timing, near the end of Q2 he was .001s behind Chris Waterman, then Tom's last lap moved him ahead.

I hope Coop's problems arent inside the gearbox, and the super duper shifter doesn't help. If he does get it working well, that's one more reason why this is shaping up to be something to watch. Could be a very interesting start, followed by race-long battles.

[Purple Frog]

JR was kind enough to give me a tour of the BMW yesterday. It's a very tidy installation. No dry sump. The oil rads have been working so well, they have blocked off some.

For those that may not understand the shifting issue. With sequential shifters (unlike old fashioned H patterns) one must row through each gear to downshift from 6th down to 1st. The car s brake so incredibly fast, there is not enough time in the braking zone to manually accomplish the task. Thus... The use of machinery to perform all the motions, blips, etc. in rapid fashion.

I guess you could say the great brakes did cause the shifting dilemma.

The pointy end is all wearing Hoosiers.

[Ivinsea]

JRO and Oberndorf both have the updated bodywork, but I think it's the same as what they've been running all year (disclamer: I'm not a Stohr expert).

Oberndorf's car has the 2nd generation bodywork with the ram air snorkel exposed and above the roll hoop.

JRO's car has the snorkel under the roll hoop. I am not sure if this is a new version or a one-off.

[Thomas Copeland]

Does anyone have any scoop on the BMW? Any reason why they aren't quicker?

[VehDyn]

I heard on the DSR forum that the first day there was a radiator cap issue. Not sure of the second day.

Also, from one article I read, the bmw as an engine and tranny may actually be lighter than the Suzuki package. I will search for the article. Hopefully, I pdf'd it for good keeps.

[Thomas Copeland]

Be interested in seeing that article. I've been scouring the internet looking for BMW engine sources and short of buying a complete bike and tearing it apart I can't find any reliable sources. Anyone have any better luck?

[RussMcB]

Be interested in seeing that article. I've been scouring the internet looking for BMW engine sources and short of buying a complete bike and tearing it apart I can't find any reliable sources. Anyone have any better luck?

I'd talk to Wayne. If he is able to put one in a car for not much more than a GSXR, then (I assume) there isn't a supply and demand issue.

Regarding shifter arrangements, my double cable set up worked well, but I know my performance in the braking zones was nothing near like Brandon's, Coop's, etc.

It's kinda sad to think that manual shifting is going away. I always thought it was one of the fun aspects of our hobbie. But I do realize that speed is king. If it's faster, legal and affordable (at least to some), it has its place in Club Racing.

[jcolley]

I have to say....this is very exciting.

I just discovered SCCA formula racing a few months ago, had no idea it existed prior to that.

I use to race 600cc supersport in CCS southeast region, so the idea of bike engine powered cars really appeals to me.

Also, as a BMW fanatic, this thread takes the cake for me! Having heard the S1000RR at a local shop, I can only imagine what a car with this engine sounds like at high revs...it has to put my S54 engine to shame! From airplanes to cars and motorcycles, to a motorcycle engine in a car...wow.

Not that this is the focal point by any means for this class or this event, but the group of people here has amazed me in the last couple of months. I hope that some day I will find the time and resources to join you very knowledgable and friendly gentlemen.

Best of luck to everyone this week, I'll be hanging on every post and picture...

[RussMcB]

According to Mike B's F1000 Twitter feed, the BMW engine has been removed from the Stohr chassis. The message did not have any details, such as why or next steps.

[ghickman]

According to Mike B's F1000 Twitter feed, the BMW engine has been removed from the Stohr chassis. The message did not have any details, such as why or next steps.

If this is the case...In my opinion the Runoffs just wouldn't be the time or place for this type of development work.

The BMW can be made to get the job done it's just gonna take time.

GH
FB #76

[Mike B]

I've since heard that it was removed in favor of Suzuki power. I can guess why...

[Daryl DeArman]

...ol' reliable will get the job done. Once the BMW gets sorted nothing else is going to beat it....at least until the new models come out.

[JohnPaul]

If this is the case...In my opinion the Runoffs just wouldn't be the time or place for this type of development work.

The BMW can be made to get the job done it's just gonna take time.

GH
FB #76

I'm really disappointed, I was hoping to see a beast. I agree that it'll get the job done once it's sorted but I'm wondering what happened. I don't think they didn't test before or at least get the car on a dyno to see it was producing the power needed, or something. I'm sure JR or someone will fill everyone in soon enough.,

[ghickman]

I'm really disappointed, I was hoping to see a beast. I agree that it'll get the job done once it's sorted but I'm wondering what happened. I don't think they didn't test before or at least get the car on a dyno to see it was producing the power needed, or something. I'm sure JR or someone will fill everyone in soon enough.,

There would only be a handfull of issues that would lead to complete extraction of the engine. Those that have been involved in this biz for any length of time will tell you that there's no substitute for track time...I'm doubting they did much of that but who knows we can only speculate.

GH
FB #76

[Wren]

...ol' reliable will get the job done. Once the BMW gets sorted nothing else is going to beat it....at least until the new models come out.

Honestly the fast guys/cars are still going to be fast and the slow guys are going to be slow. The front three guys are all on 07-08 gsxr power. We would have pit in the 09 or the BMW if we really thought it was going to be worth it.

How much faster would JR have been than his sprints time if the BMW worked perfectly? Good enough for fourth? Maybe?

[JohnPaul]

Honestly the fast guys/cars are still going to be fast and the slow guys are going to be slow. The front three guys are all on 07-08 gsxr power. We would have pit in the 09 or the BMW if we really thought it was going to be worth it.

How much faster would JR have been than his sprints time if the BMW worked perfectly? Good enough for fourth? Maybe?

well look at it like this: how much faster would Brandon or Niki be with 20 extra HP? I think it would be a huge advantage to a front running driver.
ie: Niki+Citation+sorted BMW= holy sh*t

[RussMcB]

well look at it like this: how much faster would Brandon or Niki be with 20 extra HP? I think it would be a huge advantage to a front running driver.
ie: Niki+Citation+sorted BMW= holy sh*t

I agree completely. If everything else is 99% optimized (chassis, suspension, aero, driver skill), extra HP is a huge advantage.

Imagine any other SCCA class where a front runner could have an extra 5% - 10% HP. I think it's safe to say pretty soon everyone who wanted to win would have to get the stronger engine.

"*IF* the BMW does prove to provide extra HP, I feel bad for all the front running FB competitors forced to decide whether to keep what they've got or bite the bullet and upgrade (to defend against someone else doing it).

[ghickman]

Watching live timing...looks like Q3 is over...times look to be off by 10 sec...must be raining or ??

GH
FB #76

[Thomas Copeland]

I've heard that there might be a manufacturer's meeting of sorts during the weekend to help sort out the direction the class is headed. The idea is hopefully, to get all the manufacturer's to agreed on the direction of the class. That way issues like this don't boil over. Hope to see some of you this weekend so we can have friendly talk about the class.

[ghickman]

I've heard that there might be a manufacturer's meeting of sorts during the weekend to help sort out the direction the class is headed. The idea is hopefully, to get all the manufacturer's to agreed on the direction of the class. That way issues like this don't boil over. Hope to see some of you this weekend so we can have friendly talk about the class.

Thomas
If this is the case Phoenix Race Works and Edge Engineering would be left out of this meeting....that's a problem.

GH
FB #76

[Dennis Valet]

A few photos from today

[Wren]

Dennis,

Those are some great pictures. Are you selling them? Could I come see you tomorrow with a thumb drive and get some of them? Where are you guys paddocked?

[Richard Dziak]

Awesome photos Mr. Valet.....

Thanks for sharing.

[Wren]

Brandon's bodywork is being protested. .

We are sitting in tech waiting on them to finish measuring the car.

[andyllc]

I should probably stay out of this as I have no dog in the fight at all.....But it is Friday and I am at home and not at the Runoffs so I am going to chime in instead. Does nobody remember all of the time and detail that went into building Brandon's FB? It was chronicled fairly well on this forum and everyone was so impressed with the work (at least I was). Do people really think that taking that amount of time and precision to build a car WOULDN'T pay off? Of course it will! And don't forget that Brandon isn't a whack job behind the wheel. He did fairly well in his FF way back in the day if I remember correctly.
I could be completely wrong and this car could be the biggest cheater car of all time but I highly doubt it. Why don't people realize that hard work before you get to the track makes a huge difference? To use a comparison, everyone thinks Will Power is a great driver NOW, do you really think he has suddenly become a second per lap faster than when he was with Walker? That is no slam on Walker as he did all he could with his program but the difference is more likely in the team and the preparation that his current team does than his previous teams.

For what it is worth, I have never even met Brandon and don't think I know Wren as I don't even know his real name, just followed their hard work here.

While I am on my soapbox, people that didn't think FB would be a fairly expensive class had to be on something. A class where you can always upgrade to newer motors, relatively open chassis requirements, etc is not going to save anyone money. I remember a lot of people saying that for just a grand or so you can swap out your old powerplant and tranny at the end of the year for the newest one and save so much money....rrrriiiiiiiigggghhhhttt.

Lastly, for Coop, I feel for you. I am sure you didn't want to have to spend that money on the shifter but I am glad you did because you will probably be able to fight for the win now and I know you can drive the wheels off of a car and you certainly work hard on your effort and I have much respect for that. Good luck to all of the drivers and let's hope my internet connection works during your race because I want to see a great fight for the win.