Results 1 to 31 of 31
  1. #1
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.03.01
    Location
    Havana, Fl, USA
    Posts
    10,777
    Liked: 3787

    Default The Intent of FF FC Rules

    For the past couple of weeks I have been trying to capture what was the intent of the FF / FC rules makers back in 1986. Being that it was almost 25 years ago, one must turn back layers of memory to think what the world was like in 1986. The advent of the ADF and it’s predessor the now famous DB1 had shaken the FF world. In the previous decade FF chassis were changing and re-changing every year, some designs not even surviving a year.

    I have spoken with and emailed dozens of folks that I would consider highly esteemed, and dedicated to the sport of small bore formula car racing. And I must thank them for their time and patience and contributions to my understanding. To name a few, in fear of leaving some out; John LaRue, Steve Lathrop, Richard Pare, Dave Weitzenhof, Mark Defer, Paul Rieffle, Tim Minor, Eric Langbien, Kevin Firlein, Bob Wright, Mike Rand, Jon Baytos, Keith Averill, Phil Creighton, Brad Baytos, Gib Gibson, and others have all added to my limited knowledge.

    My intent was to write a 25 word “mission statement” of what was intended when the meeting occurred in 1986 (or was it 1985 to create rules for 1986?). I have not found that to be as easy as I originally thought. Many that I talked to are sure what was intended, but have a hard time saying it in a few concise words. It seems no one has tried to explain it in one place on Apexspeed or elsewhere, so here is my attempt.

    I do feel there were some basic tenets to the rules as written in 1986:

    Tubular Steel Construction
    In 1986, the least expensive way to build a safe light chassis with reasonable stiffness was welded steel tubes. “Tubs”, whether of aluminum bonded/riveted construction, or composites were much more expensive to manufacture and maintain 25 years ago. Thus also the 6” minimum spacing rule for attaching panels to the tube chassis. Much of the rule package is specifically trying to insure a safe strong “driver cell.”

    Steel tube bulkheads with reinforcement
    This was intended purely for safety. It was to insure that builders did not scrimp on safety for weight savings.

    Front bulkhead placement and minimum width
    This too was intended to insure safety in the footbox area.

    Flat Bottom
    Although the language became very convoluted to say the least, it was intended to keep the bottom of the car flat and fairly parallel to the ground. This was to prevent the creation of ‘ground effects’ designs, and/or the use of the floor or sidepod floors as tunnels. Remember it was 1986, tunnels had revolutionized the racing world by then. It was the intent to not allow these aero bits into a relatively simple low level small bore formula class. A few years later even IMSA made these changes in defining the new WSC class to replace what had become the impossibly expensive GTP class. It was thought to be a way to keep costs down.

    Exclusion of Expensive Materials
    The people drafting these rules were trying to control costs, pure and simple. Carbon Fiber, Titanium, etc. were relatively expensive materials when compared to steel tubing, and fiberglass in 1986.


    That is a summary of what I have found. YMMV

    Going forward one of the biggest questions would be, “Are these tenets still applicable 25 years later?”

    Some are saying that construction materials and techniques have advanced in two and a half decades to the point that some of the tenets in place to save costs are actually hindering that effort. Others are saying that some of the tenets actually are preventing the design of safer cars.


    Do the FF and FC rules really need to be "joined at the hip"? FC and FB aren't tied together, even though they are closer in concept. The FF is non-aero, lower HP, than the obviously aero FC class. I think it's time to separate them and lower the confusion.

    I write this seriously as an attempt at rational peaceful dialog.

    So… flame away. not.
    Let's keep it civil.
    Last edited by Purple Frog; 09.08.10 at 3:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Contributing Member Art Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.03.03
    Location
    Ridgecrest, Ca
    Posts
    1,400
    Liked: 259

    Default

    as I remember the biggest change in the FF rules package for 1986 was the inclusion of requirements for lateral intrusion protection for the driver between the front and main roll hoops. a quick check of a hard copy of a 1985 and 1986 GCR should confirm my recollections. I've often wondered why equal weight (to 6061-T6 or 7075-T6) 6Al-4V Titanium hasn't been approved for improved lateral intrusion protection; it's good enough to be used as armor to protect US pilots in some combat aircraft..................

    Art
    artesmith@earthlink.net

  3. #3
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.03.01
    Location
    Havana, Fl, USA
    Posts
    10,777
    Liked: 3787

    Default

    Ripped from another popular thread:

    Lee Stohr wrote:

    I'll begin the Writing of the Intent:

    FC is an open-wheel racing class in which design must not deviate from that seen in the 1970's.



    Hum... only about 18 words. Briefer than my epistole.

  4. #4
    Classifieds Super License Joefisherff's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.21.02
    Location
    Maineville
    Posts
    1,918
    Liked: 103

    Default Akin to case law

    John LaRue and I had a nice conversation on this and John brought up a good point that as rulings are made, such as at the runoffs with diffusors that they be incorporated into a rules library similar to case law. If there is a question you refer to the rules or the rulings surrounding that rule. This prevents everyone from having to go back and try to re-create or remember what the intent was of that ruling in 1993....or 1986. SCCA needs to provide for a library or repository for these to be placed so everyone knows the intent and/or the ruling particularly with all of our braincells being destroyed at an unprecedented rate due to PF's passion for Captain Morgan!

  5. #5
    Administrator dc's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.24.00
    Location
    Chicagoland, Illinois
    Posts
    5,526
    Liked: 1417

    Default

    Nice post, Frog.


    My question is, would you build a car outside of those intended rules if you thought they were out of date, then try to get the rules changed in your favor, OR, would you at least try to bring the rules into the 21st Century before leaping into the great (financial) unknown?

    The rules exist as they are for a reason. Most people fully know why they were there in the first place, so not having a GCR from 1987 isn't much of an excuse. Archaic and not applicable to today's technology as they might be, intentionally deviating from those rules and "intent" then complaining that the intent no longer applies seems to be a backwards way of good ol' C.Y.A.




    Just my 2ยข of course.

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    02.04.02
    Location
    California
    Posts
    6,399
    Liked: 1116

    Default

    Case law, schmase law

    The GCR states:

    1.2.1. Replacing the GCR

    Beginning January 1st each calendar year, the newest edition of the GCR
    takes effect and supersedes all prior editions.

    Rule revisions published in prior calendar year(s) must be included in the new edition of the GCR to
    remain effective.

    Court of Appeals decisions on technical specifications are effective for the calendar year during which they are resuperseded by the following year’s edition of the GCR.

  7. #7
    Grand Pooh Bah Purple Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    04.03.01
    Location
    Havana, Fl, USA
    Posts
    10,777
    Liked: 3787

    Default

    Daryl,

    You're the man. I've been holding that tidbit back for about a week now. Kevin Firlein has forced me to read the GCR cover to cover. A lot of assumptions people make, are just that. Record keeping of rulings in Topeka is ...

    Doug,

    As a national scrutineer, I think Larry responded best in a post on another thread. We measure to specific measurements and definitions laid out in the current GCR. In impound it is very hard to measure intent in a quanitative way.

  8. #8
    Contributing Member Jnovak's Avatar
    Join Date
    12.08.07
    Location
    Dearborn, Michigan
    Posts
    3,787
    Liked: 896

    Default

    A very good posting Mr. Frog. I think you pretty much nailed it.

    Thanks ... Jay Novak

  9. #9
    Contributing Member Rick Kirchner's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.24.02
    Location
    Tehachapi, CA
    Posts
    6,537
    Liked: 1493

    Default

    The only place intent really counts is in the difference between first and second degree murder.

    It's what's written that counts. Not written is fair game. May Smokey Yunick rest in peace

    One has to wonder if the problem lies not in the rules, but the process. As much as we all rail against NASCAR, IRL, and on occasion, F1, all of these entities have the common sense to allow innovation when it occurs (well, OK, not NASCAR), but they reserve the right to say "ya got me there but it's illegal from now on." It has a tendency to piss people off - but guess what - Gordon Murray still designs despite the ban on the Brabham fan car, so did Jim Hall, and Yunick, Penske won the Schweitzer award at the Speedway just before they banned the Mercedes pushrod motor. For some reason, the SCCA has this strange approach to attempt to freeze time for awhile and then live with creep over many years.

  10. #10
    Fallen Friend nulrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.30.08
    Location
    Lee, NH
    Posts
    913
    Liked: 12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quickshoe View Post
    Case law, schmase law

    The GCR states:

    1.2.1. Replacing the GCR

    Beginning January 1st each calendar year, the newest edition of the GCR
    takes effect and supersedes all prior editions.

    Rule revisions published in prior calendar year(s) must be included in the new edition of the GCR to
    remain effective.

    Court of Appeals decisions on technical specifications are effective for the calendar year during which they are resuperseded by the following yearโ€™s edition of the GCR.
    This is as simple as it gets. No mysterious "intent," just what's written in black and white. Any ambiguity can be resolved by protest and appeal, and the decision should result in a change to the rules which will be added to the next year's GCR.

    Why should there be any "case law" or a "library of rulings" that you have to look at when you have a rules question? You shouldn't have to be a lawyer or have an access to a library of past GCRs and prior rulings in order to interpret the rules. And why should the 1986 GCR matter? It's not like it's a sacred document that was divinely inspired!

    Of course, I'm just an engineer.

    Nathan

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    01.11.05
    Location
    Zionsville, Indiana
    Posts
    3,172
    Liked: 1403

    Default

    Mike;

    You should contact John Grubb. He was on the competition board, and along with Ed Zink , they were the 2 formula car experts. John later served as chairman of the CRB.

    The one inch deviation rule for belly pans dates back to 1969 and the Zink FV. The early Zink FVs had a steel belly pan that wrapped around steel tube hoops (the front and rear bulkheads) at either end of the frame and riveted along the bottom and top frame rails. ED used 20 or 22 gauge galvanized steel. It was cheep, safe and effective. The next step was for Jerry Mong (Bobsy) to add interior panels and fill the void with foam. Ed had a few SCCA national championships by this time but the rules people decided that we really wanted tube frame and not monocoque cars. So Ed had to go back to the drawing board (he did all his work with pencil and a slide rule) and do a new frame. All the Zinks built up to 1969 eventually had to replace the frames.

    The "one inch rule" was intended to allow people to bend the sides of the belly pans up so that they could rivet on 2 sides of square tubes or wrap around round tubes (think D13). That is why the FV rules only reference the 1 inch restriction laterally.

    Next came FF and the "one inch rule" re-appears but is now longitudinal. That I think came from England. It may have been to allow one to bend the belly pan up at the front to help make it less susceptible to being torn off when the front of the car struck the ground. I bent the belly pans on Z10s and Z16s. Grinding the bottom of the front bulkhead and the belly pan was a constant problem with cars of that vintage.

    In the 1980's Reynard started raising the foot box up 1" on his FF and later his F2000 cars. This really help to protect the front bulkheads. I followed suite in the late 1980's and evolved to where I raise the front of the car 1" from the front bulkhead to the dash hoop. So far all the belly pan steps have been done so that the all the sections of the belly pans are parallel planes, no more than 1" apart. How ever you use the 1" deviation, the entire belly pan is within one inch of the plane of the belly pan at the lowest point on the car.

    This is the history of the belly pan rules as I lived it. My first Zink was a 1969 car with the new frame. I really question whether stepping the front of the chassis is even desirable. I think it is a F1 look alike gimmik that probably increases overall drag. But if we go back to narrow track cars, then it will probably be the way to go.

    The ground effects 1" restriction started with Ed Zink, me and the Z16. The side pods had a full ground effects ventures. In 1978 there were no rules dealing with ground effects. At the 1979 run offs we agreed to cut the ventures off at 1". That was then written into the rules for the next year. The belly pan under the driver was the reference for the ground effects.
    Last edited by S Lathrop; 09.09.10 at 11:20 AM.

  12. #12
    Fallen Friend nulrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.30.08
    Location
    Lee, NH
    Posts
    913
    Liked: 12

    Default

    Steve:

    That's interesting. I've always wondered where the one inch rule came from, now it makes perfect sense. It sounds like it was never intended to allow a stepped floor pan like Reynard and you did, but that's a good example of a different approach within the letter of the rules.

    I think the jury is still out on whether a high nose is better for FF and FC. Like many things on these cars, it's a trade off between aero and mechanical grip. We haven't done any CFD work on FF cars, but my gut feeling is that raising the CG with a high nose probably reduces performance more than any potential aero benefit.

    In my opinion, that is the best thing about true "formula" cars: designers come up with different solutions and we get to see how they perform on track.

    Nathan

  13. #13
    Contributing Member Rick Kirchner's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.24.02
    Location
    Tehachapi, CA
    Posts
    6,537
    Liked: 1493

    Default

    "It may have been to allow one to bend the belly pan up at the front to help make it less susceptible to being torn off when the front of the car struck the ground"

    Funny - when I last re-built my 94VD FC I put the bare frame on a big granite surface plate and was surprised to find that the front bulkhead was nealy 1/2" higher than the front hoop, and the back of the engine shelf was 1/2" higher than the rear hoop.

    So it's flat within the rule. I figured it was done to help air get under the car to feed the diffuser and to help the diffuser in the back, although others tell me it just might be sloppy manufacturing.

  14. #14
    Not an aerodynamicist Wren's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.27.06
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    2,743
    Liked: 151

    Default

    For all of the people who do not believe that there can ever be such a thing as the intent of the rule, I want to ask you about something that came up this weekend in conversation.

    The FF/FC rules require this regarding air ducted for heat exchangers:

    Quote Originally Posted by GCR
    All ducted air for heat exchangers shall pass through those heat exchangers.
    I think we all know what that means: don't pull air out of the sidepods or radiator ducting for another purpose.

    Would any of you consider a car illegal if there are some little gaps and openings where air could pass around the radiator or between a radiator and the blanking plate that fills up the rest of the sidepod, but the entrant clearly meant for the radiator to be the only thing being fed by the ducted air?



    Quote Originally Posted by Art Smith View Post
    I've often wondered why equal weight (to 6061-T6 or 7075-T6) 6Al-4V Titanium hasn't been approved for improved lateral intrusion protection;
    That seems like a pretty good idea. You could write a letter to the CRB and request that it be allowed. The thickness would fall somewhere between the steel and aluminum requirements. It does look pricey.

  15. #15
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    09.06.08
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,048
    Liked: 290

    Default

    "Originally Posted by GCR: All ducted air for heat exchangers shall pass through those heat exchangers."

    If I pull air out (inside the duct) before reaching the heat exchanger, could I not say:

    "This air is not for the heat exchanger."

    Who determines what air is ducted for the heat exchanger? What is the purpose of this rule?

    Brian

  16. #16
    Senior Member VehDyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    07.02.05
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    663
    Liked: 0

    Default

    What if I was to pull air out and then duct it to the driver for cooling. When I didnt want to be cooled, like on the straights, I would cover up the hole so that the air goes harmelssly through a fin on the back of my engine cover to the rear wing. Just on the straights though as I dont need the driver cooling. Is that legal? My body is a heat exchanger, right?
    Ken

  17. #17
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    09.06.08
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,048
    Liked: 290

    Default

    That does not answer my original question.

    Could you not just have a separate duct to accomplish what you are proposing? Why involve the cooling duct.

    Brian

  18. #18
    Not an aerodynamicist Wren's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.27.06
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    2,743
    Liked: 151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardingfv32 View Post

    Who determines what air is ducted for the heat exchanger? What is the purpose of this rule?

    Brian
    I don't actually know. Maybe it is to prevent Swift 008 style engine intakes, or maybe it is to prevent someone from making their body as wide as the rules allow, but letting most of the air pass through the sidepod without passing through the radiator for lower drag.

    I didn't really mean to debate exactly what the rule means, although I should have seen it coming. I really just wanted to ask whether or not you would consider someone illegal for having some little gaps around the radiator where some air would be able to pass through?

  19. #19
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    09.06.08
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,048
    Liked: 290

    Default

    It could be argued that there was no intention of ducting all the air through the heat exchanger.

    Frankly the rule is silly as written. Obviously, all air "for the heat exchangers" must pass through the heat exchangers to qualify. The question is what about the air not for the heat exchangers.

    Brian

  20. #20
    Contributing Member Art Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.03.03
    Location
    Ridgecrest, Ca
    Posts
    1,400
    Liked: 259

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post

    That seems like a pretty good idea. You could write a letter to the CRB and request that it be allowed. The thickness would fall somewhere between the steel and aluminum requirements. It does look pricey.
    what's improved driver safety worth per pound? at equal weight there would be no weight advantage; only significantly improved protection and it would only be one of several approved materials (ie: not required).

    driver protection provided by thin plates is a very strong function of maximum unsupported span (see Theory of Plates and Shells by Timoshenko). material that is supported in a manner that enables an external threat to deform it (elasticly or otherwise) into the driver's space isn't what required for safety. if the objective is safety, the club needs to adopt an objectively verifiable lateral instrution standard. larger and larger unsupported spans for fixed thickness and strength lateral intrusion protection material is not what's needed for improved safety.

    Art
    artesmith@earthlink.net

  21. #21
    Not an aerodynamicist Wren's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.27.06
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    2,743
    Liked: 151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Smith View Post
    what's improved driver safety worth per pound? at equal weight there would be no weight advantage; only significantly improved protection and it would only be one of several approved materials (ie: not required).
    Art, I completely agree with you on all of the above. The equal weight standard seems like the most reasonable method. I was just making an off-hand comment about price and I only looked at one internet vendor, so I am sure it could be found cheaper. My suggestion to mail it in to the CRB was 100% serious.

    driver protection provided by thin plates is a very strong function of maximum unsupported span (see Theory of Plates and Shells by Timoshenko). material that is supported in a manner that enables an external threat to deform it (elasticly or otherwise) into the driver's space isn't what required for safety. if the objective is safety, the club needs to adopt an objectively verifiable lateral instrution standard. larger and larger unsupported spans for fixed thickness and strength lateral intrusion protection material is not what's needed for improved safety.
    That makes sense, but I don't think that our current standards are terrible, and everyone has the option of just adding more kevlar in their body sides if they want to and I believe that most do.

  22. #22
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    09.06.08
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,048
    Liked: 290

    Default

    Why the obsession with side impact protection when rear impact is the source of may more injuries. Could it be that rear impacts are much harder to deal with?

    Brian

  23. #23
    Senior Member cooleyjb's Avatar
    Join Date
    02.13.05
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,608
    Liked: 42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardingfv32 View Post
    Why the obsession with side impact protection when rear impact is the source of may more injuries. Could it be that rear impacts are much harder to deal with?

    Brian
    Where are getting the data to support this? Just curious?

  24. #24
    Contributing Member Art Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.03.03
    Location
    Ridgecrest, Ca
    Posts
    1,400
    Liked: 259

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    That makes sense, but I don't think that our current standards are terrible, and everyone has the option of just adding more kevlar in their body sides if they want to and I believe that most do.
    the point of my previous post was there is NO standard for lateral intrusion protection! there is a requirement for inclusion of one of three forms of lateral protection material "securely" (note NOT defined) attached to the chassis/frame. there is also a 6" minimum attachment spacing distance requirement (note also NOT defined) for sheet metal to establish the maximum compliant level of stiffening of the tube frame. there is NOT a requirement to attach lateral intrusion protection material, sheetmetal or otherwise, on 6" centers. adding more kevlar is almost certainly a good thing to be doing if kevlar is your chosen material for lateral intrusion protection material. how many competitors do you think have taken the time to calculate the additional kevlar required for equal protection to either of the sheet metal alternatives for their maximum unsupported span??

    Art
    artesmith@earthlink.net
    Last edited by Art Smith; 09.14.10 at 5:24 PM.

  25. #25
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    05.29.02
    Location
    Great Falls, VA
    Posts
    2,245
    Liked: 8

    Default Rear impact?

    Yeah! Please share with us the data on impact type and injuries. I've been looking for that for several years, and I'd love to have real info in lieu of conjecture. Based upon personal observation, I would think that side impacts are more prevalent and more serious than rear, but I'd love to see some real data!

    Thanks,
    Larry Oliver
    International Racing Products
    Larry Oliver

  26. #26
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    09.06.08
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,048
    Liked: 290

    Default

    Sorry no official statistical data. Statement based on observation of SCCA accidents that require a hospital visit.

    Obviously most the top tier professional open wheel series all have rear impact requirements.

    Brian

  27. #27
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    05.29.02
    Location
    Great Falls, VA
    Posts
    2,245
    Liked: 8

    Default Side impact

    ...since SCCA focuses on side impact (your conclusion, Brian, not mine), it would seem that their most serious or prevalent injuries are due to side impact, not rear. My experience has been that there are far more injuries from side impacts than rear. Since neither of us have any real data, folks are free to pick whichever answer they prefer.

    Rear impact may occur from nose/tail contact at speed, in which case there is little likelihood of injury unless the car spins. Then injury is more likely to occur when the spinning car gets t-boned (side impact) while sitting stationary. A rear impact may occur if it goes off the track backwards and impacts a barrier, but generally enough speed has been scrubbed to reduce likelihood of physical injury. Most drivers' biggest fear is spinning, coming to rest sidways and getting t-boned. (Again, no data, but based upon personal observation).

    The stalled car sideways in the middle of the track is the danger. Cars stuck facing the racing route or opposite aren't as big a problem. First, they are a smaller target. Second, if they do get hit, the hitting car usually climbs over the stationary one. Scary, but not the worst scenario. Sideways, watching another formula car "stick his nose in your cockpit" is the situation to avoid.

    Larry Oliver


    Larry Oliver
    Larry Oliver

  28. #28
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    09.06.08
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,048
    Liked: 290

    Default

    I would contend that this is a classic issue of driver's fears not being validate by the facts.... IF they were known. It would not be the first time a seemingly logic position was not born out by the facts.

    I contend that the SCCA side impact rules a easy to implement solution to these fears of side impact by the drivers. After all how could a rear impact hurt you when you have the engine and transmission to protect you. The side impact is obviously much more dangerous with so little distance between you and the outside world.
    Is that pretty much how the average driver's logic would go?

    Kind of like the terrorist threat fear that permeates the US public.

    Brian
    Last edited by Hardingfv32; 09.17.10 at 2:11 PM.

  29. #29
    Contributing Member Steve Demeter's Avatar
    Join Date
    07.01.01
    Location
    Beavercreek, Ohio 45434
    Posts
    6,373
    Liked: 920

    Default

    A heavy rear impact with a solid object will subject the driver to much higher forces exactly because most everything behing the driver is solid with no give. engine, gearbox

    compare that to the front crush box with it's "controlled crush" spreading the time to come to a stop over a longer peeriod, resulting in not nearly as high peak forces as a similar rear impact.

    Remember it is not speed that kille, it is the sudden stop and a rear impact against a solid object is a sudden stop.

    That said, Larry is right in the fact that at least at our level, cars very seldom make a high speed impact with a solid object.

    But getting t boned is IMHO, the most likely way to sustain significant collision injuries.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Stan Clayton's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.14.03
    Location
    Mooresville NC area
    Posts
    4,157
    Liked: 309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardingfv32 View Post
    "Originally Posted by GCR: All ducted air for heat exchangers shall pass through those heat exchangers."

    If I pull air out (inside the duct) before reaching the heat exchanger, could I not say: "This air is not for the heat exchanger."
    Yes, absolutely.

    Who determines what air is ducted for the heat exchanger? What is the purpose of this rule? Brian
    I asked that same question some years ago when I came on the CRB and was told by the tech and historian folks that it was to prevent creating internal tunnels. Minor leakage past bona fide coolers is ignored in practice.
    Stan Clayton
    Stohr Cars

  31. #31
    Contributing Member provamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.24.04
    Location
    Amherst, New York but i left my heart in San Francisco
    Posts
    2,651
    Liked: 292

    Default relevant to this thread


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  




About Us
Since 2000, ApexSpeed.com has been the go-to place for amateur road racing enthusiasts, bringing together a friendly community of racers, fans, and industry professionals. We're all about creating a space where people can connect, share knowledge, and exchange parts and vehicles, with a focus on specific race cars, classes, series, and events. Our community includes all major purpose-built road racing classes, like the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) and various pro series across North America and beyond. At ApexSpeed, we're passionate about amateur motorsports and are dedicated to helping our community have fun and grow while creating lasting memories on and off the track.
Social