what about citations?

[Rob]

I'm still looking for my first formula car and I'm sure some of you have seen the 90/95 Citation posted for sale on the FFUnderground bboard.

I've heard of the chassis, but that's about the extent of it. The seller said a very similar car placed 2nd in RunOffs this year and is selling the car as Nationally competitive.

As my knowledge is very minimal about FCs in general and just about nil on the Citations, I'd like to hear what any other members here have to say about the chassis (or car if you know it).

I'm not looking for a National car (although it'd be nice!), just a solid Regional car that I can run for 3-5 years before being made obsolete.

Again, I thank you all in advance for the help!!

- rob

[Tom Johnson]

The Citation is IMHO the best chassis out there, if it is one that was built by ICP. There was another firm that built a few that I understand were kind of questionable.

These chassis are well-designed and if I could afford to have one that's what I'd pick.

Richard Pare at ICP (see link to ICP on this site) can probably tell you all there is to know about this specific car. There aren't a lot out there, so he knows the story on most of them.

Fast in a straight line, very responsive to setup changes, and easily the safest chassis there is. I don't suppose DaveW has any complaints!

[DaveW]

Well said.

[Purple Frog]

Rob,

I lost count, but something like 7 National Championships in the past decade may be a hint to it's capability.

There is some discussion that Dave W may be one of the important ingredients in that winning formula, but our inflated egos keep telling us it has to be the chassis. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Make sure you talk to Richard Pare, even if you have to wait to get his attention.

[Rob]

Thanks for the info guys. I didn't realize Dave W. was on here; Dave, your car is the one he compares his setup too.

I don't intend to take a run at Nationals with it yet, but if it's still good at that level, surely it's good at the Regional level.

Thanks again!

[Douglas Kniffin]

I feel like I may get shot for this opinion but, i'm going to dissent in your particular case as a rookie. I do believe that the Citation is a fine chassis. But, as a rookie you will need more support than you can imagine right now and on any given day that you are at the track, if you stick with the tried and true VD, you will be able to turn to no less than 10 people who will understand your car and be able to help you. In addition if you have a part break one of those 10 people will probably have the part. With the Citation you will be flying solo.

Doug

[Tom Johnson]

No argument here, Doug.

There is a lot to be said about having a car that comprises 90% of the grid. I own one myself (however heavily modified). There are lots of people to help you if you're out in the woods on setup, and the vanilla setup you can get from them will put you at least in the ballpark.

As I mentioned before, the Citation is a car that is very sensitive to setup changes, and if you don't know what you're doing you can really wind up in left field. For less technically-adept guys that can be a big disadvantage, but for talented setup guys/drivers like Dave, well...

I guess a good analogy is that the Citation is like a Stradavarius. Most guys can scratch out a few sounds, but a true master makes it sing.

Personally, it is my goal to own one not because I think I'll be winning the runoffs any time soon, but because I'm an experimenter and a tinkerer, and I appreciate any good piece of engineering the way somebody else might enjoy a fine Merlot or a Rembrandt.

[BrianT1]

I previously owned that car. It is a great car. Its a top five National car and a true winner in the regionals. You can’t go wrong for the money. As far as support Richard Pare is always helpful.

Brian Tomasi

[Rob]

Doug brings up a very good point and one I will definitely take into consideration.

However, how different are the cars, really? My understanding is that the motors and transmissions are the same no matter what chassis and the basic suspension is the same (upper/lower control arms, etc). I do have a mechanic friend that helps me at the races (and is a racer himself) who is a genius at figuring out how things work and how to put them together, so I'm not totally on my own to figure this thing out.

The car is a bit more than I want to spend anyway but based on the pictures and information he sent, it looks really clean and sharp so I figured I would ask and see if it should be put onto my "contender" list.

Once again, I appreciate the information and patience from all the members here in helping with my newbie questions. Hopefully, I'll see you on the grid at some point this year!

- rob

[Tom Johnson]

If the car is in the shape it was when Brian had it, it's a good piece. I wouldn't write it off just because you can pick up a VD cheap.

The answer to your query "How different are they, really?" is, very. Just because they all have pretty much the same parts doesn't make them the same. Extending the Stradavarius analogy, all violins have essentially the same parts, just some of 'em make sweeter music!

[DS]

Rob,There's a prep shop in Pgh that might have a car or two available. Something that is worth looking into as they take care of their machines and they could be picked up for a pretty decent price. If you're interested they can be reached at 412-721-2664.

[Matt M.]

Is it me - Or every time Tom writes Stradavarius.. All I can picture is Larry playing "pop goes the weasel" While Curly is running around the ring yelling woob woob woob....
Sorry to get off topic there...

[Rob]

DS-

Is that John Walko's garage? Or the one up in Wexford that has a car advertised on the for sale forum here?

- rob

[DS]

That is one of the cars and there is a Swift DB-3 that is currently undergoing a from the ground up rebuild that would worth looking into.