GT America

[rdzr1]

Any chance the SCCA is considering GTA cars for regional or national competition as a stand alone class? These cars, based on NASCAR and ARCA road racing cars, are safe, inexpensive (20 to 30k), use spec V8 engines and would make for a very good show. It is my understanding that they are now legal for GT1 in regional racing although they are not competitive with true GT1 cars.

I spent almost 20 years racing FF, F2000 and S2000 in SCCA and I would like to get back into road racing after spending the last 8 years running a dirt late model. After having an 850 horsepower car, the small bore formula cars are not that exciting to me anymore plus I have gotten used to have a full roll cage around me!

The biggest lesson I have learned racing at dirt tracks around the midwest is that SCCA has got to lower the costs involved in purchasing and running the cars. My first S2000 car cost $12,500 with the engine! I now look at decent used cars in that class at close to 40k and close to 60k new. Even just renting a Spec Racer costs over $3,000 a weekend. The fun/cost formula just does not work out there. I can still put together a very competitve late model for 20k, run every weekend and they pay us to race!

To me GTA seems a like a great option to raise interest in road racing and SCCA. There is no shortage of used chassis. The spec engines are bullet proof and cheap, wheels are less than $200 apiece and the tires are about $500 a set. Look at how cool the Nationwide cars looked at Elkhart. I am up for GTA if SCCA can find a way to do it.

[reidhazelton]

I am not that familiar with the particulars of these cars, but they sound like the class Midwestern Council just made to run steel-bodied stock cars. MC runs tracks very close to you. If interested, I can put you in touch with the guy that brought it to be.

-RH

[Steve Demeter]

They ought to fit into ASR.

You could pretty much have your own class at regionals

Get a bunch of people with the cars to start running regionals with you.

Then you can have fun and build your participation numbers up and possibly get a national class if the BOD and CRB agree.

I do not remember the last time I saw a true ASR at a race so having someone show up with a can am McLaren and ruin your day is not likely.

Homologation might be a bit of a pain though.

[Dave Gomberg]

The GTA cars are recognized as regional classes in some regions or divisions. There are several that run in the Southeast Division and at least in the Washington DC region in the Northeast Division. I don't know if they are other region series for these cars. However, they can be run in SP (Super Production) - see 9.1.C in the GCR. (These car could not run in ASR which is for Sports Racing cars that do not fit in one of the existing Sports Racing classes.)

Dave

[M.Sauce]

We have had GTA class cars running in Regional events for 3 years in the Southwest Division.We can field over 10 cars usually and within the national program they run in GT1.

[Bob Clark]

Cars like that run up here in Cen-Div in SPO and we get 6-10 cars at most regionals at Road America , Blackhawk and the Milwaukee Mile.

[Steve Demeter]

(These car could not run in ASR which is for Sports Racing cars that do not fit in one of the existing Sports Racing classes.)


Dave, back when there was a pro series for pick ups that SCCA ran, when they showed up at club races, they were put in ASR. Hence my reasoning.

Have I missed something over the years.

It was quite interesting running with an ASR truck in a FC.

[Dave Gomberg]

(These car could not run in ASR which is for Sports Racing cars that do not fit in one of the existing Sports Racing classes.)


Dave, back when there was a pro series for pick ups that SCCA ran, when they showed up at club races, they were put in ASR. Hence my reasoning.

Have I missed something over the years.

It was quite interesting running with an ASR truck in a FC.

Yes, you missed something. The ASR rules were revised several years ago to prevent trucks and other non-sports racers in ASR. FS was created as an ASR analog for formula cars. Both are intended to give a regional place for sports racers or formula cars that don't fit in our existing classes. They allow for experimentation and testing of ideas.

The production-based equivalent is SP (Super Production).

Dave

[GT1Vette]

Any chance the SCCA is considering GTA cars for regional or national competition as a stand alone class? These cars, based on NASCAR and ARCA road racing cars, are safe, inexpensive (20 to 30k), use spec V8 engines and would make for a very good show. It is my understanding that they are now legal for GT1 in regional racing although they are not competitive with true GT1 cars.

...

To me GTA seems a like a great option to raise interest in road racing and SCCA. There is no shortage of used chassis. The spec engines are bullet proof and cheap, wheels are less than $200 apiece and the tires are about $500 a set. Look at how cool the Nationwide cars looked at Elkhart. I am up for GTA if SCCA can find a way to do it.

I was involved in getting GTA recognized as a regional-only class here in SEDiv back in 2006 and it has since been recognized by DC Region, SOWDiv, and MidDiv. There's been some interest from drivers in CenDiv & GLDiv (and we ran as part of the IT-Fest at Mid-Ohio last year), but the way to gain acceptance is to run with an existing class (GT-1 or SP) and keep track of the numbers to "prove" the concept to the hosting regions. We run the unofficial GTA "National Championship" event at the ARRC by GRM each year, and the last three years we've averaged over 20 GTA cars each year.

One small correction to the statement above, however - GTA was orginally based on the (now defunct) ASA Touring Series cars. Here in SEDiv and most other places (everyone but the West Coast where the class originated and it's just about dead now) we've also adopted rules to allow Late Model chassis to compete as well. All these cars feature tube-frame chassis, composite bodies (NASCAR and ARCA are metal), and coil-over suspension rather than the "big spring" truck-arms of the bigger cars.

I could write for a long time, but the biggest benefit of the class is low operating costs. The rules require we use off-the-shelf circle track components which keeps costs down and reliability up. The best example is that we use bias-ply Hoosier or Goodyear tires that cost about $600 a SET mounted and balanced. And since these are tube-frame cars with mass-produced body panels ($2500 for a complete body), repairs from the occasional off-road excursion are relatively inexpensive. And if you want to buy new wheels they are around $100 each, but most of us get Cup castoffs (they cycle them out halfway through the season) for $10-$15 each.

I never thought I'd post it on a forum for the open-wheeled brethern, but here's the link to a YouTube video that provides a better explanation of what GTA is all about. Please remember three things when you watch it, however:

1. We don't have 560 horsepower as Tim says. It's really closer to 500.
2. We still saw over 150 mph on the back straight at Road Atlanta even with the missed shift coming out of Turn 7.
3. I have absolutely NO plans to quit my day job at this time!

Enjoy and I welcome your comments and/or questions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seprX8U5Ilo

Butch Kummer
Associate Pastor
First Church of GTA

[Larry]

I've got to admit that I truly love the sound of an American V8. Rather than racing archaic, 40-year old British production cars from long-defunct manufacturers, I'd love to see GTA succeed in SCCA! Good luck, Pastor!

Larry Oliver

[Stan Clayton]

I've got to admit that I truly love the sound of an American V8. Rather than racing archaic, 40-year old British production cars from long-defunct manufacturers, I'd love to see GTA succeed in SCCA! Good luck, Pastor! Larry Oliver

Is "Pastor Butch" like "Pastor Ted"...?

(...the Colorado guys will get it, tho it may be a bit obscure to the rest...)

I like GTA, as they remind me of the stock cars I got started racing in. Yeah, they're big and heavy and underpowered (a bit like overgrown Spec Miatas), but when yer rubbin' elbows in a crowd of them you know yer racin'!

But to Larry's post...I too love the sound and feel of an American V8. Can anyone say Formula Five Thousand?

Build yourself a big honking tube frame chassis and drop in a V8. Add an inverted Porsche G50 rock crusher and go have fun in FS. Grown men will take a step back, children will run and hide, and women will go flush and slightly faint.