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  1. #41
    Global Moderator Bill Bonow's Avatar
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    Jim (Nash),

    Jim (Schings) has ID'd some of the technical issues, but I think it's more than just that. Just as Bob pointed out, the idea of racing Nationals and the Runoffs has a huge draw to many. I understand that some are thinking in the sense of Regionals being considered a lower competitive grade of racing. I think where we fall down is to get everyone to see/understand that the competition level in our races is seriously tough.

    At Blackhawk, 4 of the 5 drivers have been former Runoffs contenders. I think about how many times we get officials and workers that make an effort post race to come to impound and tell us "that was the best racing we've seen in a long time" (happend again at BFR).

    I'm a little miffed with SCCA that we have made multiple attempts to get something into SportsCar (both Phillip Royle and Eric Prill) about announcing our class (brand new GCR class from 1/1/09) and the only thing that has been printed to date was a 20 words and a small photo from the ARRC. I think we got a great thing going. It is proven, rules are stable and it makes sense for an entry level, low budget, open wheel race car.

    I really don't have an answer for "why not?" Makes no sense to me either, as I've already made the jump. I know we've got a good thing and slowly but surely, we keep growing .

    Maybe a guy like Matt King could shed some light on this.

    OK, off the soapbox.
    Bill Bonow
    "Wait, which one is the gas pedal again?"

  2. #42
    Contributing Member lawyerbob's Avatar
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    As for the "why not" Bill, you're dead on that some off it is (a) can't run for the Runoffs and Sprints (around here the Sprints are a big deal) and (b) a perception that a Regional Only class is second rate (I thought that too at first).

    But another thing that kept me onthe fence for a while was fear of ending up with an orphan. Most of us worried about finances have to be really ocncerned that if the class were to fold up tent and go away, we'd then have a car that we would have to spend serious $ to make into a FV, since there's really no other place (FS? really? get serious). I finally decided based on the momentum in the Class, AND my opinion that based on the creation of the FFDA and the Hoosier Series, the Class wouldn't be going away. Looking at the times, in the two races, the FST's outperformed some of the FF's and CFF's - not bad I think.

    Given that last weekend there were more FST's than Vee's at BFR (and there should have been one more )- I think I chose wisely.

    Bob
    Bob Stack, Hartland, WI
    CenDiv - Milwaukee region

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Bonow View Post
    Maybe a guy like Matt King could shed some light on this.
    Hey, I'm still trying to figure out what makes a FV tick! Frankly, as I've told Bob, if I had it to do over again, I think I would make the choice to go with FST. But at the time I wanted to take advantage of the Runoffs coming to my backyard at Road America. On the other hand, I'm somewhat conflicted over the logic of having two air-cooled VW classes, and I don't think I would pursue a conversion of my current car at this point. In an ideal world, FST is what FV would have evolved into by now--like it did in other parts of the world--and there would be one, more modern class. But you have some pretty entrenched participants in FV, many with multi decade and generational investments in equipment and knowledge in the class who won't agree to that much change. One thing that seems to have made change so difficult to reach consensus over is the fact that participation numbers in the class relative to other national classes has remained so high over the years. So even though it has dropped far from the peak, there has always been the argument that "we're still third overall so nothing needs to change."

    I know you guys don't want to become a National class, but I wonder if that might be the thing that takes it to the next level. And at some point, I also think SCCA needs to reconsider the whole concept of the two levels.

    So that's my newbie 2 cents.
    Matt King
    FV19 Citation XTC-41
    CenDiv-Milwaukee
    KEEP THE KINK!

  4. #44
    Global Moderator Bill Bonow's Avatar
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    Default This train is off the tracks

    Back to the BFR report in a moment, but first........

    Quote Originally Posted by lawyerbob View Post
    But another thing that kept me onthe fence for a while was fear of ending up with an orphan.
    This is a common FST fear that we need SCCA's help to eliminate. FST is a GCR class. Think about the last time you saw a real ASR at the track.....and that class is still in the GCR. Food for thought, we are more stable than CFF (a divisional class). FST ain't going anywhere for a long time and everyone needs to know this.

    Quote Originally Posted by lawyerbob View Post
    I think I chose wisely.
    And you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt King View Post
    I know you guys don't want to become a National class, but I wonder if that might be the thing that takes it to the next level. And at some point, I also think SCCA needs to reconsider the whole concept of the two levels.
    Matt,

    Just a hunch on my part, if SCCA keeps up with this Regional/National BS, in 5 to 10 years, SCCA will no longer exist.

    Sorry, back to the BFR race weekend!
    Bill Bonow
    "Wait, which one is the gas pedal again?"

  5. #45
    Global Moderator Bill Bonow's Avatar
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    Default Can't help myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt King View Post
    On the other hand, I'm somewhat conflicted over the logic of having two air-cooled VW classes, and I don't think I would pursue a conversion of my current car at this point. In an ideal world, FST is what FV would have evolved into by now--like it did in other parts of the world--and there would be one, more modern class. But you have some pretty entrenched participants in FV, many with multi decade and generational investments in equipment and knowledge in the class who won't agree to that much change.
    Matt,

    Initially (2002 range), FST was started as a "test bed" for a potential FV upgrade. As you most likely guessed, that went over like a fart in a space suit with the general FV crowd here in the states. However, it was not 100% of the FV crowd and those that did not hate the idea absolutely loved it. A small percentage, but they understood the concept. There was a real interest to the point where a few people just started building cars. After a few years of the "Hatfield's & McCoy's", we (the FST guys) decided we had enough momentum to just move forward on our own. So now there are two very similar classes. The only key difference is we keep growning and they keep shrinking.


    OK, no more.... Back to the weekend. Did we talk about how fantastic Carl & Marie's shrimp boil was on Saturday night?
    Last edited by Bill Bonow; 05.18.10 at 10:46 PM.
    Bill Bonow
    "Wait, which one is the gas pedal again?"

  6. #46
    Contributing Member csatte02's Avatar
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    What convinced me to try a First was the fact that I was at almost every regional that the FST's were at the last few years and was sick of watching them pull away! : ) It always seemed like a train of cars that was much more rare in regional FV. I could either spend money on new parts for FV and spend even more money on new tires or try a FST. I decided it was time to try a First. Its also very nice to run in a series rather that just a regional championship that nobody seems to care about. I'm hoping to prove that an old converted/modified Caracal can run with those EVO's.

  7. #47
    Contributing Member lawyerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Bonow View Post
    OK, no more.... Back to the weekend. Did we talk about how fantastic Carl & Marie's shrimp boil was on Saturday night?
    Would you stop rubbing that in! I was looking forward to the shrimp and tried to talk my better half into coming back to the track Saturday just for the evening fun, but to no avail.

    I'm hoping there'll be a cookout at Nelson.
    Bob Stack, Hartland, WI
    CenDiv - Milwaukee region

  8. #48
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    Default You can do it this year

    I know of a few opportunities for those who just want to do it this year.

    SR has a couple of open rental slots a some events. Call them for pricing

    One of the FFDA members has a second car available for rental in the SouthEast. PM me and I'll get you in touch.

    I know of a complete turn key car ready to go with a complete updated motor. Again PM me for info.

    Lastly, there are a couple of FST's available for sale and Greg Rice still has an engine that was reliable and fast for sale.

  9. #49
    Global Moderator Bill Bonow's Avatar
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    Default Saturday Night History

    Bob,

    The Saturday night dinner & gathering has been a staple of the FST series races for many years. One year, we even hired a chef to cook for us! Here are some from the past:










    We feel that the social aspect of our racing is just as important as the racing itself. We want everyone that comes out to race with us to know they are a key element of Formula First and that we are all about having fun on racing weekends.

    I'm not sure of the details, but we will have a dinner & gathering at Nelson.
    Bill Bonow
    "Wait, which one is the gas pedal again?"

  10. #50
    Contributing Member lawyerbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Bonow View Post
    I'm not sure of the details, but we will have a dinner & gathering at Nelson.


    I'm going to see if I can get Roemer to take a road trip and race at eitehr Nelson or Mid-Ohio. Then we can work on him to sell the high maintenance FC and get in an FST. Aint' gonna happen, but it's fun to try.
    Bob Stack, Hartland, WI
    CenDiv - Milwaukee region

  11. #51
    Global Moderator Bill Bonow's Avatar
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    Default Some Photos from BFR

    Chris Herzog was appointed our official photographer (Although, I don't think we ever told him ) and he took some 450+ photos from Rounds 1 & 2.

    Here are a couple for your viewing pleasure


    Carl Middelegge with a touch of power on oversteer


    Jim Nash at the point with a few extra wheels in tow


    Reese Everhard with his Australian built Jacer


    Doug Seim leads the pack through Turn 4


    Typical FST finish, 4 cars at the line

    I've got a few hundred more, I'll see if we can get a few more posted at www.formula-first.org
    Bill Bonow
    "Wait, which one is the gas pedal again?"

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