Aero Category

[Rick Iverson]

Doug;

If there is a preponderance of FC support, is there a possibility you will add "Aero Setups" as a category under FC: General Discussion? From my chair here it will not be short on participation, enormously helpful for us ne'er-do-wells, and might get some of us (read: myself) to actually start thinking about this stuff again

I think you will be in agreement there are billions, if not trillions (for some reason these numbers have absolutely no meaning to me since the last election) of racers with 'enquiring minds' and short of track time/set-ups that could use the help, as well as brilliant aerodynamicists that can lend something to the fight.


Fellas;

Sound off on this concept, either up or down.

VR

Iverson

[Ken Rozeboom]

You have to adjust these things? Shudda stayed with FF (or FE?).
Yes, would like to learn more.
Ken

[rickb99]

We are newbies to FC with 2 seasons and 9 races under out belt.

Our aero setup on the Reynard 90SF consists of calling Averill and asking him where we should set things? From that base, we've diddled a little bit (not a lot).

Although our driver is at the pointy end of the field, he really cannot 'feel' much of a change in performance with the small (like 1 degree) changes we've made. Nor, do his lap times vary. He runs consistant times and when out of traffic is as fast as almost all the other FC's.

Once you have the 'basic' aero setup for a given car and make small changes to see what happens, I'm not sure how much more there is to do.

Would I be interested in such information? SURE! But unless it's specific car model and wing design specific, it wouldn't be worth a lot. Info on flaps and whizzy settings would be meaningless for an old Reynard with Ultra wings. But it might make good reading!

[nulrich]

Whether a driver can feel small changes in wing settings will depend on the driver to some extent (lots of guys will just drive what you give them) but also on the package itself.

Stock later model ('00 on) Van Diemen front wing flaps, for example, are stalled in pretty much any position, especially with the massive Gurneys some people run, so they aren't working as airfoils but as spoilers. Because of that, even the most sensitive driver will have a hard time feeling a small adjustment.

I'm not familiar with the aero package on a '90 Reynard, so I can't comment specifically, but it sounds like a similar situation exists on your car.

One of the first things drivers noticed on the Radon wing packages was how sensitive they are to adjustment. Drivers can feel a real difference with even a single hole (1.5 degree) adjustment on front flap angle, and a single hole (1 degree) adjustment on rear upper wing angle. We saw similar sensitivity in the wind tunnel.

We almost need finer adjustment on one end, because sometimes getting the balance exactly perfect is difficult. Usually that problem goes away when something changes on the track or on the tires, though!

Our goal with all of our F2000 aero design is to improve efficiency, and that means we avoid stall/separation like the plague, which is why small adjustments are significant.

Nathan

[Stan Clayton]

Our aero setup on the Reynard 90SF consists of calling Averill and asking him where we should set things? From that base, we've diddled a little bit (not a lot).

Umm...

[jdp526]

How many different airfoil designs have been used for wings on the FC models? The car I am rebuilding has a very basic design on front wing with a small amount negative camber on the top side.

[rickb99]

Umm...

Ummmm... LOL Okay obi wan

Just checked the Daunless site for FC wings. I see release date and pricing not yet established.

I'm guessing if I liquidated all my assets and went deeply in to debt we couldn't afford Dauntless wings.

On the other hand, if you need a test mule we have one Keep in mind the old Reynard does NOT have a raised nose... sigh... all that modern stuff.

[Rick Iverson]

Fellas;

What started me thinking about this again was what Stan said in another thread: "Rick, the default wing mount tabs are designed to bolt up to an LD-200, so all you might have to change compared to later RF models is the height and setback to match your diffuser."

And as I cruised Pennon Composites, I saw their diffuser pump and the pod kickers.

I have no problem in announcing I am about three light years out of my league here, but that doesn't mean I have to live with it. I think what is so fabulous about this place other than the camaraderi is the ability of most to put difficult concepts in lay terms that even I can understand. That was on my mind.

VR

Iverson

[Stan Clayton]

Ummmm... LOL Okay obi wan

Just checked the Daunless site for FC wings. I see release date and pricing not yet established.

I'm guessing if I liquidated all my assets and went deeply in to debt we couldn't afford Dauntless wings.

On the other hand, if you need a test mule we have one Keep in mind the old Reynard does NOT have a raised nose... sigh... all that modern stuff.

Our wings are competitively priced with FC wings on the market today. And while I can't help you with the low nose, our rear wing package can be used to advantage as a stand-alone with any good diffuser.

[Pop Chevy]

I just bought my car last fall and have yet to run it. Therefore I am at the bottom of a VERY steep learning curve. Go for it guy's, I'm listening !!

[Rick Iverson]

.....airfoils but as spoilers.

Sir;

So here we go, and exemplifies why I asked Carter for an Aero category. Having been a pilot for a lifetime fairly well steeped in aerodynamic academics (lest we forget, RWs beat the air into submission), I have no clue as to the difference of the two, and more importantly, what each brings to the fight. I have read here that Gurney lips are essential, yes?

One of the first things drivers noticed on the Radon wing packages was how sensitive they are to adjustment. Drivers can feel a real difference with even a single whole (1.5 degree) adjustment on front flap angle....

Sir;

A PM for photos and pricing?

VR

Iverson

[Rick Iverson]

Found this:



"Picture the trailing edge of the wing cross-section, with the Gurney pointing upwards and the airflow moving from left to right (above). At the trailing edge, the airflow immediately beneath the wing rolls into a small anti-clockwise vortex behind the Gurney. Immediately above this, a second small vortex, rotating in the opposite direction, is formed by the airflow traveling above the wing as it passes over the gurney's lip. together these two vortices form a small separation bubble - a rotating mass of air removed from the main flow - which is somewhat taller overall than the gurney itself.

In clearing this separation bubble, the airflow's vertical deflection is increased and hence downforce increases. Additionally, separation of airflow from the wing's lower surface is postponed, allowing a higher angle of attack to be used before stall, which further enhances the wing's effectiveness."

Make sense to me!

[dc]

Ok, you asked for it, you got it. I added a new Aerodynamics category this morning, under the General Formula Car sub-topics section, as it is not just FC that deals with aerodynamcis.

I'll move this thread over there, and any other aero-specific topics later today.

[Rick Iverson]

Doug, you ARE the Man!! Thanks, Pally.

Iverson