FA Runoffs Race

[Matt Satchell]

Here is some footage of the first lap of the Atlantic race from Jason Byers car. As you'll see, it got a little dicey in Turn 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI4PCsMewJc


When I get a little more time, I'll add some of the action from after the restart. This was just a trial run to see if I could figure out how to edit a video.


Matt

[KevinFirlein]

all the post race dramas , with threats of bodily harm and apparently arson ( thats a new one ! ) the 1st 48 seconds of this vid and probably some of the restart laps could have been sold to the highest bidder.

Tell Jason nice run in the RT41. Still plenty of life left in the cars

[Paul LeCain]

More info, please.

[glenn cooper]

When yer all locked down and the engine stalls, smoke pouring off everything it can pour offa, and you're about this far away from packing it into the guy in front!
Same kine deal that happened to me at Rd Atl earlier this year, trying not to hit Cooper (the dad). It's a spooky kinda quiet.
Pretty "heroic" (not) move down the inside into T3 from Mr Fire Ants in the shorts.
Q - When will people learn that you can't win the race in the first lap?
A - NEVER!
Killa move down the inside into 5 Jason, you wasted no time getting gone outta there either.
So what is up with the threats? Did one of the guys say to another guy that his uncle is in the Mafia? THAT was all the rage when I was in Elementary School on Long Island - it was prolly true come to think of it!
I missed the whole thing online, so will someone who was in this thing please do a lap by lap?
Thanks, GC

[Stan Clayton]

Very cool video, Matt! Add my appreciation to Jason for holding up the Ralt side, and we hope to join him on the podium next year!

[Rick Ross]

Very nice video.....thanks for posting. And congrats to Jason on a great result!

[Paul LeCain]

Q - When will people learn that you can't win the race in the first lap?
A - NEVER!

I disagree. You can win a lot of races by putting 3-4 seconds on the field in the first lap, especially in SCCA races, which are all sprints

[glenn cooper]

Q- When will people realize that running it in extra deep, so deep in fact as to make any attempt at overtaking (successfully) impossible, on the third turn of the first lap, especially on tires not up to operating temperature is a disaster about to happen?
A- Never!
However: I'd be all for that move if there was the required amount of grip available, which of course there was not.

Better?

Who's gonna spill?
Fear and Loathing in Wisconsin?


GC

[Keith Carter]

A race cannot be won in the first lap, but it can certainly be lost.

[RussMcB]

The FA race was pretty interesting. The most compelling story for us was seeing Stan and the crew trying to get a gearbox problem on Rennie's car resolved 45 minutes before the race! When we left the gearbox was apart, rear wing off, and we wondered if they were going to make the race. We returned moments before the 5 minute warning and they were backing Rennie out of the Toyota tent, rushing to get him to grid. It was nerve wracking from my POV. I can't imagine what it was like for them, but they seemed to be keeping their cool. The next day, they said they just missed the boat with the set up. Rennie was obviously struggling when we saw him in T5 in the later laps.

IIRC, this is Jason Byers' first year in FA, right? His Runoffs race was pretty impressive. Hats off.

I tried to post some pictures, but couldn't. One showed some pretty serious damage to (Ahsen's?) car - right rear wishbone - so he must've taken a hit during the race and surely affected his car's handling..

[Rennie Clayton]

The FA race was pretty interesting. The most compelling story for us was seeing Stan and the crew trying to get a gearbox problem on Rennie's car resolved 45 minutes before the race! When we left the gearbox was apart, rear wing off, and we wondered if they were going to make the race. We returned moments before the 5 minute warning and they were backing Rennie out of the Toyota tent, rushing to get him to grid. It was nerve wracking from my POV. I can't imagine what it was like for them, but they seemed to be keeping their cool. The next day, they said they just missed the boat with the set up. Rennie was obviously struggling when we saw him in T5 in the later laps.

After the Great Staffs Meltdown of Thursday Afternoon, we were in a bit of a bind. Courtesy of that, and the damp qualifying session the day before, we really did not have an opportunity to discover that our race day setup was a big pile of Swift 008.

Our front ride height was entirely too low, and the front bar was miles too stiff. So I was bottoming under heavy braking (I love it when I'm trying to stop the car and the tyres lose all contact with the road!) and had to take it easy... well, mostly I tried to take it easy while still pushing the car, sort of. Never a good combo. Plus I had wicked understeer through the Carousel. Anybody who followed me through the back half of the course can attest to this - sorry for those I balked through there, but trying to get the ol' Ralt pointed down to the apex was like trying to coax Norbert Haug away from a plate of wiener schnitzel.

We never discovered these things in the 2 sessions prior to the race because one session was damp, and I wasn't using the brakes all that hard, and the other session lasted precisely 2 laps before the gearbox squealed in agony after puking every last ounce of lubricant. Once in the race, I certainly had my hands full, but I figured "hey, the pooch is already screwed, time to drive the wheels off this pig!" - so a good time was had in the end.

Anyway, we've got a few things to work on between now and our next visit to Road America. In the meantime, huge props to Jason Byers for carrying his Ralt to P2. Job well done!


Cheers,
Rennie

[JByers]

Matt, sweet video and the real props should go to team St Clair & Elite Engines for giving me a competitive car. There is still time left in the Ralt with additional work on set-up and bolt on parts which we will investigate this winter.

At the start I was giving it all the Welly I had but it was apparent to me that the 014’s no-lift shift have a slight advantage in a 1st-5th drag race. This was a good thing though because another two feet and I would have not made it through turn three. It was some heads up driving by the 12 car to stop it from rolling while looking at a swarm of cars charging at his point. Coming down into T5 on the first lap I was amazed at the closing rate I had on Rennie which left me no choice but to take the corner. Crossing the SF line after the first lap we came across the double yellow, Mirl must of thought why slow down my tires are still coming up to temp and they just might pull the flags back in. If we didn’t have to slow down for the safety trucks and the waving yellow in the kettle bottoms the lap time would have been in the 2:10 range. The restart occurred in T14 and I had a good run on the 40 car but had to lift for the yellow under the bridge but I was still able to pass him while in the tow of 84 car, which I almost passed if it wasn’t for some defensive driving. The 40 car took me back in T3 only to lose the position before T5. I got a run on 84 car coming into T12 but again a defensive line halted my advancement. When we came to the SF line at the start of lap 5 the 84 car had no defense when I went sailing by. Within a lap I had caught the 75 car and got a good run on him going into T1 on lap 6 but I was not far enough ahead to take the corner on the outside but he too would loose out to the Ralt’s speed going down into T5. From that point of the race I was giving it all I had which was not enough to catch the 88 car.

Coop, I missed the post race “next time I’m gonna take you out” discussion but heard about it on Saturday. Kevin, the chase cam didn’t show enough of the fight between the 40 and 75 cars to put it up for auction. Russ, this was my second year in FA but my first at the Runoffs due to last years race budget being absorbed by an extensive rebuild of the Ralt and a blown motor.

[Paul LeCain]

At the start I was giving it all the Welly I had but it was apparent to me that the 014’s no-lift shift have a slight advantage in a 1st-5th drag race.

Jason,

I looked at the start specifically to see how you did against the 014 no-lift. I don't see that you lost much, if anything, in that run to T1. Good job.

Paul

[JByers]

Jason,

I looked at the start specifically to see how you did against the 014 no-lift. I don't see that you lost much, if anything, in that run to T1. Good job.

Paul

That's because I have no mercey for dog rings or gears + I had a bit of a tow.

[Rennie Clayton]

Coming down into T5 on the first lap I was amazed at the closing rate I had on Rennie which left me no choice but to take the corner.

Yeah, sorry about that. I spent some time zinging around in neutral between the 4-5 shift and lost one hell of a lot of time going down the straight, hence my creeping pace going into 5. Down about 12 mph compared to my usual T5 approach, going by the data.

I looked at the start specifically to see how you did against the 014 no-lift. I don't see that you lost much, if anything, in that run to T1. Good job.

Paul - I don't have any video of the race, but I didn't really experience any lag in acceleration compared to the Swifts. In fact, on the start I short shifted from 4-5 and still had to lift pretty good about 100 meters before we even got to the braking zone to keep from running into Jeff Kowalik's gearbox on the way there.

What I found, following many Swifts throughout the week, is that we would be dead even for the first 2/3 of the straightaway, maybe a little bit better in some cases, but then the last portion of the straight comes and the Ralt is still pulling like a freight train while the Swifts just hit a wall. Could certainly have something to do with wing setups in my case, but that's how it worked out. Our peak speeds into various corners:

T1 - 151
T5 - 153
T12 - 154


Cheers,
Rennie

[Paul LeCain]

What I found, following many Swifts throughout the week, is that we would be dead even for the first 2/3 of the straightaway, maybe a little bit better in some cases, but then the last portion of the straight comes and the Ralt is still pulling like a freight train while the Swifts just hit a wall. Could certainly have something to do with wing setups in my case, but that's how it worked out.

We saw the same thing at Pocono. The Ralt was faster at the end of the straights. I don't know if that's aero (we had at least as much as anyone else, maybe more), or carbs vs FI.

[John LaRue]

Jason,

Congratulations on a great drive and to St. Clair and crew for a superb job as always! Were there some Shriners in that race????

John LaRue

[bill gillespie]

Guys,

Thanks for the discussion....very interesting. Regarding the Ralt, I have now run mine on carbs, EFI, h-pattern, and sequential.

Apologies to Paul, but properly mapped EFI was much better than carbs...even with 25# added. My h-pattern was faster than sequential, but it was a converted Staffs, not a FTR/JFR/SG4, etc......also I didn't spring for flat shift til we evaluated the conversion. IMO, not worth another 25#.

I'm just sayin'
Bill

PS : Jason, thanks for showing that the Ralt is a proper, non-spec, FA car.

[Tom Valet]

Some pics from the race (sorry, my son Dennis didnt arrive until Friday night so these are mine, not quite up to his usual standards:

[Jim Gustafson]

Aw shucks Tom, didn't you get even one picture of the prettiest FA out there?

Jim Gustafson
Swift DB-4

[Tom Valet]

Sorry Jim, I told you I was a lousy photographer with no eye for the good shot.

[Matt Satchell]

nice pics Tom.

Congrats to Mirl Swan for running a flawless race.


I have added the first few laps after the restart to my original video. Total length is over 12 minutes, a little long for youtube.


http://www.vimeo.com/6859691

[jim morgan]

Great drive by Jason. Excellent prep by St. Clair. But I think the key ingredient is the rigorous St. Clair driver nutrient and training progran for Runoffs.

[Stan Clayton]

I think the key ingredient is the rigorous St. Clair driver nutrient and training progran for Runoffs.

What...Spotted Cow and Brats?

[Stan Clayton]

Aw shucks Tom, didn't you get even one picture of the prettiest FA out there?

Jim Gustafson
Swift DB-4

Jim, thanks for bringing that beautiful car to RA for us all to admire. And thanks too for stopping by our paddock space to say hello. I appreciate it.

Stan

[bill gillespie]

Congrats on a great run ... looks like you have a very slippery Ralt, or you owe your engine builder a tall frosty, or both !

Very consistent drive, no missed shifts, and by my ear, it doesn't sound like you are giving up much , if anything, to the flat-shift boys.

if not for the big bamboozle on the start, would you have had something for Mirl ?

Again, max kudos/props,
Bill

[glenn cooper]

Ya know it's a pretty good vid when you're sitting down to a good nutritious brekkie of Kashi Brand Cinammon Harvest and your heart rate goes up in direct inverse proportion to how soggy the wheat bits get from forgetting to eat 'em up due to the killa drive being viewed!

NICE 1 JB - n' a snap!

GC

[John B]

Awesome video!
Congratulations to Mirl, Jason and Sadat!
Mirl as usual for his smooth speed and flawless race.
Jason for doing a truely outstanding job. That Ralt sure has some legs!
And to Sadat for bringing it home on the podium with his right rear A-arm bent and no rear brakes. It just goes to prove what we suspected all along, Sadat doesnt use his brakes!!

I must say it was a good thing David Grant (#12) got his car to a dead stop in the T3 incident. Had he kept rolling in either direction there would have been a few more cars involved.

Rennie, yeah I could see you were having trouble in the carousel, you were giving it hell though!

It was an exciting race, thats for sure!

John Burke

[Jim Gustafson]

Jim, thanks for bringing that beautiful car to RA for us all to admire. And thanks too for stopping by our paddock space to say hello. I appreciate it.

Stan

Thanks Stan, we only got 9 laps all week (gearbox), The boys at WRD fixed that for us and we were excited about going faster in the race, but I broke a cv joint at the drop of the green.

Stan, Rennie, it was nice to meet you both, and despite all this talk of moonshine, Stan you seemed sober enough to me. John B, we enjoyed hanging out with you and your guys. Tom V I wanted to catch up with you, but I guess you were busy, out taking pictures of the wrong cars. Congrat to your son Bill for his drive in FF. Way to go Jason, when we talked in the St. Clair hauler, you were confident you had something for those 014 pilots and you proved that in the race, and finally to Mirl, you never put a wheel wrong all week, culminating in a convincing victory, well done lad!

Jim Gustafson

[Matthew Inge]

Jason,

Awesome race! It must have been Rob and his fantastic prep and Matt with his fascinating engineering.

All I want to know is when you're going to let me strap in the Ralt?

[jim morgan]

Matt,
get in line one punk before you.

[Matthew Inge]

Jim, I didnt know you wanted to drive Jason's Ralt. hah

[mark defer]

matt,
so you consider satchell's engineering "fascinating".
interesting way to describe it.
your uncle bill has a few different adjectives he uses.

uncle mark

[JByers]

Sorry Matt and Jim, the Ralt is off limits to young guns who drive my cars quicker than I do. Maybe Mirl will take you up on your request.

Mark, Uncle Bill might have his opinions but no-one can denie the results Matt has accomplished over the years.

[andyllc]

Hey Jason
I definitely remember you passing me on the test day at Grattan this year in the Crossle, just saying......

[Rick Ross]

Hey Jason,

Forget about these young guys......way too fast and risky for that beautiful RT-41! You need to put a nice safe old guy like me in the car. I promise to be really careful and only use first gear, and I'll limit the revs to 6000 rpm or less. My old neck can only take about 1 g anyway.

I'll be going so slow that there will be absolutely no reason to waste any time looking at the data after my drive. In fact, we should probably save the battery and just turn off the data system entirely before I take to the track........

[John B]

So they revised the FA results.
Jeff Kowalek, #77 was penalized 3 positions for improving his position under the double yellow of the pace lap. Here's what I saw from my vantage point; As we rolled out of false grid, Jeff's car stalled and it took him a few seconds to get it started again. I noticed the grid marshal then hold him and 3 cars (myself included) passed by him before he got moving again. The splitter put him to his new position 3 cars back. Once on track for the pace lap as we were warming tires he quickly and carefully worked his way back to his original gridded position and everyone fell back to their original gridded positions. Everybody seemed fine with that and I thought it was logical and made sense. I guess there must be a rule about stalling your car in false grid? It was a very unfortunate outcome for Jeff. Was it a protest or just an unsolicited action by the stewards?

Anyone know anything else or different?

Final results

http://scca.org/documents/resultfile...al_revised.pdf

[Jim Gustafson]

So they revised the FA results.
Jeff Kowalek, #77 was penalized 3 positions for improving his position under the double yellow of the pace lap. Here's what I saw from my vantage point; As we rolled out of false grid, Jeff's car stalled and it took him a few seconds to get it started again. I noticed the grid marshal then hold him and 3 cars (myself included) passed by him before he got moving again. The splitter put him to his new position 3 cars back. Once on track for the pace lap as we were warming tires he quickly and carefully worked his way back to his original gridded position and everyone fell back to their original gridded positions. Everybody seemed fine with that and I thought it was logical and made sense. I guess there must be a rule about stalling your car in false grid? It was a very unfortunate outcome for Jeff. Was it a protest or just an unsolicited action by the stewards?

Anyone know anything else or different?

Final results

http://scca.org/documents/resultfile...al_revised.pdf

John:

I spent some time this past weekend with Augie Pabst (Pabst Racing Services preps Jeff's car) and the explanation he was given by the Chief Steward at impound...."Jeff passed under the yellow." Augie suspected that the results didn't reflect the penalty because this whole thing got lost in the shuffle, until now. Also, Jose stalled in front of me and I was waved by, I was prepared to let him back in but he remained where he was.

Jim Gustafson

[Rennie Clayton]

So they revised the FA results.
Jeff Kowalek, #77 was penalized 3 positions for improving his position under the double yellow of the pace lap. Here's what I saw from my vantage point; As we rolled out of false grid, Jeff's car stalled and it took him a few seconds to get it started again. I noticed the grid marshal then hold him and 3 cars (myself included) passed by him before he got moving again. The splitter put him to his new position 3 cars back. Once on track for the pace lap as we were warming tires he quickly and carefully worked his way back to his original gridded position and everyone fell back to their original gridded positions. Everybody seemed fine with that and I thought it was logical and made sense. I guess there must be a rule about stalling your car in false grid? It was a very unfortunate outcome for Jeff. Was it a protest or just an unsolicited action by the stewards?

Anyone know anything else or different?

Final results

http://scca.org/documents/resultfile...al_revised.pdf

John,

Just noticed that myself - don't know about any competitor-instigated protests on the matter, and I didn't really hear any muttering after the race to that effect. I certainly didn't care, but the GCR has pretty plain language about it:

A car that fails to start with the pack or falls out of position during a pace lap relinquishes its grid position. It may rejoin the field only at the rear of the pack.

The way I read it is once you stall on the grid, you can only rejoin at the back of the field. Oh well, at least he wasn't seventh...


Cheers,
Rennie

[KevinFirlein]

saw it happen on the broadcast and knew he was going to penalised, both for regaining his position( had a good chuckle when forrer put him in the grass as he tried to pass him on pace lap) and for not going to the back. So much drama after race I dont think this was a large priority to sort out. Had it been a podium spot I am sure they would have caught it sooner.

side note exact same thing happened in the FC race when Tomasi didnt roll from the grid then regained his spot. In this case it was moot since whatever trouble Brian was having also kept him from restarting after the long black flag.

Rennie that video is legendary in the DC region has the offending driver is one of ours.