tire warmers

[Dan Aleckson]

Hey guys I found out we need to email or write to the CRB to try to get tire warmers banned I dont know how you feel about them but some teams had them a the runoffs and qualifed.. up front . no other organization allows them that I know of. I dont feel a spec class is where they should be. that said let the board know how you feel . I dont want to spend 2K on them .Dan

[Dennis McCarthy]

Dan,

Although I no longer have a dog in this hunt, IMHO, drivers who have enough time and enough crew to use tire warmers probably are serious about their race effort and have enough crew and MONEY to turn out a pretty fair car as well. While the tire warmers may give them a few more heat cycles and save on tire costs, unless they posted their times that put them on the pointy end of the grid in the first few laps of qualifying, I doubt it's the tire warmers that put them up front. Take away their tire warmers and they'll just use stickers.......

[Dan Aleckson]

If your tires are near optimal temp when you go out for qualifying or race you can go fast right away especially on a cold morning like the runoffs this year.. Brandon said the tires on our car never came up to there potential until lap seven so I have a hard time believing that with a hard compound tire!!Dan

[mike g.]

hi guys,

This past weekend at Blackhawk, someone else running under the Lindstrand tent had some tire warmers... For mostly fun, we used them on Saturday morning when it was around 35f out.

They took them off the R60's and I went to the grid with the tires at 175f (where they were for almost an hour). When I got back to pit lane after qualifying, they were 85f!

So on cold mornings - I dont think it really matters. You're on a track that is real chilly and the tires are stuck out in cold air at 100+ mph

We had a fair amount of folks stop and say "warmers are illegal" and some random statements about tire warmers on a club ford... Orie real the GCR and warmers are only illegal on the grid. In paddock they're ok.
I personally think for most of us, their only value is keeping heat cycles down. On most race weekend weather and most drivers, I don't think getting tires up to super-hot (err, optimal) temps in lap 1 or 2 is a huge factor.

regards,

Mike

[Dan Aleckson]

what if somebody waits till the last minute to go on track when the tires are still warm do you think that they can get a faster lap right away or do you think it wouldnt matter. the reason im asking because i would like to know from people that have used them..dan

[mike g.]

Dan,

I think when you have a 40 degree track surface it won't matter. The amount of air and contact cooling is going to chill them down pretty quickly. 180 degree tires + cold track = cold track grip I think.

Hopefully someone else will chime in - I'm not at all an expert and I run old R60s.

I wouldn't mind if they banned them from spec classes - as I said before, I think their value (and this seemed to be the agreement with everyone this past weekend) is to keep heat cycles down on real sticky tires on test days... 6 sessions on a test day can kill a set of R35s.. that gets pricey!

[SStadel]

I don't have tire warmers and don't plan on buying any, but how would you possibly police something like that in an SCCA paddock? F1 has all of their garages together, as does NASCAR (with no walls!), but we're all over the place.

[Dan Aleckson]

Pro mazda doesnt seem to have a problem with it. tire warmers are band there. i think there is also plenty of competition that wouldnt let some body get away with it make the penalty severe enough they wouldnt want to ,,whats the penalty for cheating now in FE class??If I remember reading right it severe. Dan

[mousecatcher]

i'm surprised that tire warmers would help (for performance) in our class anyway. our tires get up to temp quickly. by the time you finish your out lap they are up to temp in my experience.

[John LaRue]

How do you want to define a tire warmer? I think it is probably an advantage; if it weren't would F1 use them? That being said I think there are lots of other things to worry about first; that in an of itself is not going to be worth a bunch of grid positions.

[smcqueen]

I am with you Dan. They should be disallowed on Grid or in paddock. Like you say, it takes several laps for tire temps to come in on the tires we run when ambiant is 70 or below (don't have that problem in Texas too much). It is tough enough for the one or two man teams to compete without having to resort to tire warmers, tire changes in the pits, etc.

scott

[Dan Aleckson]

Frank.... maybe thats why you spin often>>.......Joking ...on a cold day it takes a few laps to warm up the tires especially on along track with not alot a turns Road America.... again write the board if you dont want them..Dan

[jim morgan]

Dan,

We had them and used them at RA (FC). Used propane heaters at Topeka and Mid- Ohio to no avail. Illegal on grid per current rules,which is enough. Don't see how you can open can of worms to dictate legality of procedures in paddock. We spent the money with minimal benefit given the time lapse from paddock to rollout.

[Dan Aleckson]

Jim not dictating anything... everybody wants parity in this class. so if there is a chance that they do make a difference then is that called parity??? I dont want to have to spend the money on this item being a single car team on a limited budget. its expensive enough to do this.. Im happy that you have the budget for them most do not. trying to keep racing expenses in ck. so we can continue to race.if they dont make a difference then why not ban them like almost all saction bodys do ..Even F1 hasbanned them starting in 2010.one person at the runoffs had them just out side the grid on his car before the race...Dan

[Matt King]

If you are going to suggest banning tire warmers in the paddock, why not setup/scale platforms and teams with 5-man crews? All the same arguments apply about cost/parity.

[Dan Aleckson]

Talking about FE class only!!!!

[Dan Aleckson]

I do let other racers use my set up pads who dont have them ...Will you let me use your tire warmers????Dan

[jim morgan]

Dan,

The whole point for this exercise is if I am willing to spend $5,000-$10,000 to come from Florida to Wisconsin to run a 1991 chassis on tires that everyone said could not compete why the hell souldn't I be able to take every advantage I am willing to pay for.

BTW they only make a differrence with a driver that would already go nuts on cold tires.

Sure i would rent them to you as well as anybody.

[Dan Aleckson]

are you saying there is a advantage to tire warmers????

[KAMcDonald]

not sure how much advantage they are for the front runners.

i got mine when i first got the car because i liked the math. do a test day with 4 - 6 sessions, get a race weekend and the tires are done. with warmers the test day ends up with 1 cycle (not sure of the effect of the heat on tire all day using up more life than it gives) and lets me get more weekends on the set. used on actual weekend to save cycles, maybe not so much, long time between sessions, cool down laps, getting pulled into tech, etc, tires may cool down to the point that warmers do not save the cycle.

it is easier if someone is there to help, otherwise they are already cooling down by the time i take them off, drop the car off stands, get strapped in and drive to grid.

using just before a qual session starts when i can get them pulled off and drive straight onto track, maybe a little better for the 1st lap or two, as long as i can get around everyone else that are warming tires by weaving from side to side and blocking the way.

same for race day, sitting on grid (got to get there in time so as not to loose position after 1 minute call), pace lap at speeds where tires are cooling down, etc. may help for 1st lap if otherwise clear path.

while i agree that the idea of the FE class is spec and equalizing the car so that it is about driver skill and not spending cash for fractions of a second, i do not think we should go down the wrong path and set precedents.

if tire warmers are banned as an advantage that not everyone can afford, lets ban everything else.

No more radio comm between crew and driver, i cannot afford a crew, and on a start/restart they are telling their guy green flag and he reacts and gets on the gas before i do.

no more putting cars on dyno and tuning them, i have no money to spend on dynos.

tires are good for 6 - 9 sessions? use all you want for practice days, but race weekend tires marked and only allow sticker tires after 3 race weekends on that set.

come to think of it, SCCA gives us 2 practice/qual sessions before the race, no practice days allowed to let people with money get more time on track than me to let them get an advantage.

lets not even get into discussion about type of fuel....

just my opinion.... and if we talk about banning, lets be sure we say FE only so i can sell mine to some FC guy with the same size tires, or get reimbursed by SCCA for changing the rules after i spent the money....

[jim morgan]

Dan,

Advantage to aggresive driver for 1/3 first lap to beat grid position,no more! Tire warmers in the paddock are legal ,expensive and minimally effective.

[Brian.Novak]

Dan,

Advantage to aggresive driver for 1/3 first lap to beat grid position,no more! Tire warmers in the paddock are legal ,expensive and minimally effective.

QFT. They have their advantages, and disadvantages. User beware.

[mousecatcher]

Frank.... maybe thats why you spin often>>.......Joking .

<shakes fist> you owe me a beer for that!!

[Dan Aleckson]

no problem Frank you make me laugh . to bad your moving east going to miss the fun..Dan Thanks for the dialog on tire warmers it is enlightening on both sides of the issue.. Dan.

[riderxracer]

Ok,Ok guilty as charged

But let us have a look @ the facts

1. 51 years old
2. not been in a racecar since 1992
3. car would not run over 5700 rpm all summer (no car devlopment time)
4. can afford tire warmers
5. did't have another week to spend testing
6. TW banned on grid only
7. did't have enough time or $ to buy & dyno test multi engines as others did

Sure I used them, wish like heck I had used them in Q when they would have been more useful. I tried like hell to use any LEGAL thing possible to get closer to the front as did others. For the record, I'm certain that they made a difference. Just wish that I had caught the fuel trick that SCCA pulled on us w/ the oxy fuel.

I would be in favor of no tire warmers as well as one spec fuel, but the problem is how could you enforce all this ?

How about the tire rule, or lack thereof. We race all season w/ the rule and then we get to RO's where 4-5 sets were used by some teams. That certainly disadvantaged teams that could't afford to do that.

Fact is, no matter what you are racing, there will almost always be someone better funded and willing to spend more for the smallest advantage.

Lee Rackley
FE # 79

[formulasuper]

Ok,Ok guilty as charged

But let us have a look @ the facts

1. 51 years old
2. not been in a racecar since 1992
3. car would not run over 5700 rpm all summer (no car devlopment time)
4. can afford tire warmers
5. did't have another week to spend testing
6. TW banned on grid only
7. did't have enough time or $ to buy & dyno test multi engines as others did

Sure I used them, wish like heck I had used them in Q when they would have been more useful. I tried like hell to use any LEGAL thing possible to get closer to the front as did others. For the record, I'm certain that they made a difference. Just wish that I had caught the fuel trick that SCCA pulled on us w/ the oxy fuel.

I would be in favor of no tire warmers as well as one spec fuel, but the problem is how could you enforce all this ?

How about the tire rule, or lack thereof. We race all season w/ the rule and then we get to RO's where 4-5 sets were used by some teams. That certainly disadvantaged teams that could't afford to do that.

Fact is, no matter what you are racing, there will almost always be someone better funded and willing to spend more for the smallest advantage.

Lee Rackley
FE # 79

The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; They just make the best Of everything they have.

[Dan Aleckson]

Brian I have to ask ?? What do you mean adv.-disav. user beware ??Dan