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Thread: CFC in NEDiv

  1. #41
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    Rick and Potential NEDIV CFC racers,

    My hope is to see a single club continental class of pre-1996 cars including rocker, pushrod and mixed pushrod/rocker cars that race together with as few rules as possible. The main thing is to have a separate class from the newer (about 1997) cars which have a big mechanial grip and aero advantage. The newer cars are also usually campaigned by guys with bigger budgets - they tend to have newer motors, fresher rubber, etc. which adds to the advantage of having a new chassis.

    We need to keep the concept simple and uncomplicated. Guys should be able to improve their cars as they see fit - adding a diffuser or updated wings to an older car should not become an issue or grounds for protest. For example, I have a 1995 spec rear wing on my 1989 Van Dieman. Some fabrication was required to mount it to the gearbox cover so the gearbox cover is not "original" either. I think the new rear wing has improved the cars performance but the main reason I made the change was because my original wing fell apart and Primus (the Van Dieman dealer) could not supply me with an original spec wing. I bet a lot of guys make changes for similar reasons. I know some of the 1988/1989 Reynards out here run the Bobby Carville aero bodywork which is not original. I can't see making them throw their bodywork away and replace it with original Reynard panels.
    The point I'm trying to make is we shoudn't set the class up along vintage rules where the cars have to be in original condition. This would probably lead to a lot of protests and take the fun out of racing. I don't see having multiple CFC classes as viable and I don't think NEDIV SCCA would go for three CFC subclasses.

    There are a lot of good older cars out there that are not being campaigned. Any continental from 1985 to 1995 is a fast car and they are extremely cheap given the performance. Parts for these cars are also considerably cheaper than parts for a 2003 Van Dieman so ongoing repairs are more reasonable. More than anything CFC gives somebody with a modest budget the opportunity to race a high performance formula car at a relatively inexpensive price point. Another point is that a guy can work on his car and if he has fabrication skills can make or repair a lot of pieces on these cars. Aftermarket parts sources are also available for most of the older CFC cars. This is not the case in spec classes such as FSCCA where parts come from a monopoly source. I think a lot of the spec guys are going to be unpleasantly surprised at the repair bills once they get into some hard nosed racing.

    Anyway I'm starting to drift off subject.

    You make a good point about hard compound tires being difficult to drive in cold weather. This is something to consider with regard to a spec tire rule. I don't have a strong feeling on whether we should or shouldn't go the spec tire route. I'd like to hear as many opinions on this over the next month or so. Spec tire threads have been a long running debate on both the FF2000 and FF1600 forums. I have read them all and I still can't tell which way is better.

    Maybe we can start the class as an open tire class and with future deliberation over the course of next season come to a agreement on whether to go the spec tire route the following year.

    Another point is if you know who your Regional Exec and Competition Directors are please contact them and let them know this is brewing. The more SCCA officials that show up at the mini convention in Hartford, Ct. this November that are aware of what we want done the better.

    Thanks,

    jerry Zaluckyj

  2. #42
    Contributing Member formulasuper's Avatar
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    Hi Jerry, after reading your post I thought I would ask if you have considered the class the SCCA started in the last couple of years; Formula S. It was introduced for guys like you and me (1983 Ralt RT-5 SuperVee) to be able to take older formula cars that are no longer competitive in their class and make practically any mods or changes to the car you would like. You just have to meet the safety rules. Wheels, tires, engine mods, aero mods, ect. are unrestricted. Should be able to build an Atlantic beater with your car! Only if you enjoy going fast. Scott.
    Scott Woodruff
    83 RT5 Ralt/Scooteria Suzuki Formula S

    (former) F440/F5/FF/FC/FA
    65 FFR Cobra Roadster 4.6 DOHC

  3. #43
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    Jerry, what would you do with a yellow 95 Citation? Add 150 lbs? This is the problem I always come up with. Although I doubt that the specific car would show up to run your CFC class, the technology is there for other 95 Citations. Of course you would have to hope that the other cars can't find a driver as good as the Yellow one.

  4. #44
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    Mike H.,

    You make a good point - a very good driver in a well set up car is a tough combination. However, if the CFC class goes through with a 1995 cutoff date then a 1995 Citation would be allowed at 1215 lb. (proposed rule) and not be penalized an extra 150lb. I guess the rest of us will have to take our chances that Dave W. doesn't start running in NEDIV regionals.

    A more likely scenario is what occurred at the final NARRC championship race at Lime Rock this year (results are posted on the NYR SCCA website). Eight national caliber drivers in late model Van Diemans showed up and dominated this regional championship race which carries double points. I believe the NARRC champion, driving a 1989 Reynard, finished ninth. The regular regional drivers who contested the whole regional NARRC series basically didn't have a chance at scoring meaningful points in their most important race of the year.

    CFC will never be a perfect solution but it will more reasonably divide the class between older and newer cars so that hopefully more cars overall show up to race and everybody has more fun. Guys in new cars can race for a trophy and the guys with older cars can race for a trophy and points too.

    The 1995 cutoff date is a compromise which tries to balance the desire to include as many competitors as possible in CFC to ensure that the class is accepted and survives and on the other hand gives older cars a reasonable chance at being competitive. Your example of the 1995 Citation is a fly in the ointment, but hopefully it is only a small fly compared to the bigger ones that we have now.

    Does anyone else have thoughts on the Citation question? Let us know.

    PS - I got eight more signatures on the petition at Summit Point for fifty seven total thus far.

    Jerry Zaluckyj

  5. #45
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    Hey Jerry,
    We met at Summit this past weekend, nice to meet you, glad to sign the petition. I had the 88 Swift SE3. I have not been in a formula car for about 6 years, almost forgot how much fun it is. I posted my best time in the race, I know I can lower that by another 4 seconds as I get more comfortable in the car. I hope the CFC class flys in NE Div. See you in the spring.

    Doug

  6. #46
    Senior Member Mike Ahrens's Avatar
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    Jerry,

    I got a half dozen signatures at Nelson this weekend, I'll mail you the petitions back.

    Mike
    Anything is possible, until it is proven impossible.

  7. #47
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    To all potential NEDIV CFC participants here are the rules for the class. I tried to keep them simple - no spec tires, updating/backdating/modifying is permitted within GCR limits for all FF2000.

    Let me know what you guys think - we need to settle on the rules by early November and I will present the rules and signed petitions to SCCA officialdom at the November Divisional convention in Hartford, Ct.


    PROPOSED RULES FOR NARRC/NERRC*
    CLUB FORMULA CONTINENTAL (Class Designation = CFC)


    Compliance is the responsibility of the class competitors.

    Cars must conform to all specifications and rules applicable to regular Formula Ford 2000 per the current SCCA General Competition Rules (GCR) – but with these exceptions:

    1) Only Formula Ford 2000 cars homologated prior to 1996 are allowed

    2) Minimum weight limit for 1990 and older cars - 1175 lb.

    3) Minimum weight limit for 1991 - 1995 cars 1225 lb.

    Racing slicks are free; there are no spec slick tires.

    Rain tires are free; there are no spec rain tires.

    Bodywork is free, provided it conforms to GCR specifications for Formula Ford 2000.


    * If the class is adopted for NARRC/NERRC regional competition it is expected that NYSRRC and MARRS will follow suit. This would provide a uniform competition basis for CFC throughout the NEDIV, encourage participation and increase fields.


    Jerry Zaluckyj

  8. #48
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    Hey Doug,

    It was good meeting you at Summit Point. Can't wait to run there in the spring.

    If you know who your Regional exec is let him(her) know what we are trying to do with the CFC class. It would help spread awareness of this to as many SCCA officials as possible prior to the mini-Con.

    Jerry Zaluckyj

  9. #49
    Contributing Member GR's Avatar
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    Hey boyz,

    I have two '88 Reynards for sale that will fit right into your plans. Both cars are ready to race! My #41, and the #45 (rental) I have previously posted for sale on this site.

    More on the #41 will be on this site as soon as I finish an inventory. If your interested shoot me an email @ hardrockrat@mindspring.com.

    Oh, by the way, this #41.......Rocks!!!
    Peace
    HardRock Motorsport

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