FASTEST CLUB FORD IN COUNTRY

[Ian Lenhart]

I dont know if it is qualy or race but I think Kevin Smith has the VFF lap record at Elkhart with a 2:30 something in a Titan MK6.

Who builds Kevin Smith's engine - SCCA legal? I've seen Vintage FFs (specifically one yellow and one silver Titan MK6) pass a few well sorted FB cars up the hill from turn 5 to turn 6. They sound a little different then your typical formula ford as well.
Just an observation from the grandstands.

Ian

[cff96]

Ian,

The last I knew, Curtis Farley was building Kevin's engines.

Cindy

[mblanc]

sure wish I could rethink selling my Crossle a couple weeks ago

Didn't some guy named Rodney tell you that?!



re:Scott Hutchinson in a Van Diemen RF79 has it, turning a 2:32.291 back in 1998.

I'm pretty sure that still stands. I ran within tenths of Hutchinsons record being chased by a huge EWC field, but couldn't quite go below. I think it would have been on R60's, as I think that was the Cen-Div CFF rule, but not sure if it was in place that year. It could have been on Bridgestones, if they were still around at the time, they were still on the 'hard' compound list, but they were definitely quicker and softer than R60's. I think they were all gone by 1998 though, so I'm thinking it was Hoosiers.

Hard tires are a way of life in cendiv CFF, for more than a decade now.

[andyllc]

I have not run Road America in CF but is anyone else a bit surprised at the 10 second difference between the FF and CF track records?

I would expect maybe 5 seconds but thats just me.

[Garey Guzman]

Well, when I noticed the difference between FF and CF at California Speedway, I thought the same thing. My DB6 did well over 130 there, even passing winged cars through the banking (due to drag?). But 7 seconds seems like a lot.

Hard tires may also have an effect in high speed turns/confidence.

[TimW]

There is likely 2-3 seconds in laptime simply in taking the kink flat or not. You pay the price in Canada for not holding your breath near the start of that straight. It can be pretty unnerving in a pushrod FF; would be curious to know if the CF drivers are taking it flat.

Also, the straights are really long and you spend a lot of time in 4th gear at Road America in three different straights. That is where the CF is going to be at its biggest disadvantage. Cal Speedway is only 2.8 miles, or 30% shorter than Elkhart, not to mention everyone raises their game at RA for the sprints due to the field depth that I suspect does not happen in SoCal too much anymore on the FF front.

[Daryl DeArman]

Makes for interesting bench racing. We'll probably never know for certain who is the fastest CF racer in the US, but we'll certainly know who earns the bragging rights that day! No fault of his/hers all they can do is race whoever shows.

Just don't know how inclined/likely some of the faster CF drivers from CA are to attend. I'd like to think Shaun Modisette is probably a contender for the top honor. Just because he has a background that brought him through Vintage FVs and CF's doesn't mean he isn't quick. He races in the Pacific F2000 series for PR1, think he had more than a few podiums in that series in 08.

[Garey Guzman]

....Cal Speedway is only 2.8 miles, or 30% shorter than Elkhart, not to mention everyone raises their game at RA for the sprints due to the field depth that I suspect does not happen in SoCal too much anymore on the FF front.

I haven't been to Daytona or Seattle but I can tell you that the "straight" at Cal Speedway is very close to 1/2 the track length. From T15, you're flat until the braking point for T3. Aero is definately important there and at about 1.4 miles of full throttle, probably more significant than Road America.

Although the FF fields haven't been terribly strong in SoCal, that lap record was set by Scott Rarick the year he won the RunOffs. None of Porters cars or the Vestal have been close to that time.

[stonebridge20]

Interesting discussion. I think "modern" FF is going to be a Runoffs/Sprints repeat but CF is a total crap shoot. But then again it may not be if some of the "modern" guys show up with really good CF's also




.

[mblanc]

I have not run Road America in CF but is anyone else a bit surprised at the 10 second difference between the FF and CF track records?

I would expect maybe 5 seconds but thats just me.

Just factor in the time/length of the track, if you're used to a 1:20 laptime, and a 5 sec spread FF to CFF,
2:25 (145sec) / 1:20 (80sec) = +81.25% x your 5 seconds = 9.06
add a little more for the higher speeds/more aero difference, and theres your 10secs.



AND, It's HARD TIRES, against sticky. -harder than the vintage guys run.

[Scott Hutchison]

As I recall I was on Hoosier R60s and I set the time on a lap when I got a good draft off of a group of 3-4 FF's between turns 3 and 5. Taking the kink flat was not a problem but it made you really pay attention.

The 10 second spread between CFF and FF times surprises me too, but I would guess it's mostly in the tires and some aero.

The RF79 was a great car and easy to drive, but the best handling, well balanced and most forgiving car I've ever driven was a Tiga FF78 CFF.

[JHaydon]

There is likely 2-3 seconds in laptime simply in taking the kink flat or not. You pay the price in Canada for not holding your breath near the start of that straight. It can be pretty unnerving in a pushrod FF; would be curious to know if the CF drivers are taking it flat.

Depends how badly I screw up the Carousel...

Actually, the Tiga sticks so well through the Carousel that the kink comes at you scary fast. I can't honestly say whether or not my attempts to hold my right foot down have been 100% successful... but I've followed many cars (CFF, FF, and yes, FA! ) who have lifted more than I have.

If I have.

Which I'm not saying I have. But, you know, it's possible.

[dbardell]

The following club ford drivers have all been suggested in above threads as ones to watch if they race at the 40th. Do you have any additions or know the missing cars?
1. JOHN HILL---------------CROSSLE
2. JS BROOKS--------------VAN DIEMAN RF81
3. TODD BARDWELL-------CROSSLE 32
4. PHIL KINGMAN----------ZINK Z10
6. STEVE ROBERTSON-----VAN DIEMAN RF79
7. DAVE HARMISON--------ROYAL RP16
8. REX GUNNING-----------ZINK Z10
9. RALPH HILL-------------CROSSLE
10. TIM COX-----------------CROSSLE 32
11. SHAUN MODISETTE------CROSSLE 32
12. BOB HATLE---------------CROSSLE 32
13. STEVE LUFTMAN----------CROSSLE 32
14. ANDY PATTERSON--------CROSSLE 32
15. CHUCK PITTENGER-------TITAN MK-6
16. NEIL SHELTON------------CROSSLE
17. JUSTIN PRUSKOWSKI----CROSSLE
18. BOB SPREEN--------------CROSSLE
18. RODNEY JESSON----------CROSSLE
19. SCOTT HUTCHENSON-----VAN DIEMAN RF79
20. MARK BLANC--------------CROSSLE 35
21. SHAUN MODISETTE
22. MIKE RAND-----------------81 VAN DIEMAN
23. JEREMY TREADWAY--------81 VAN DIEMAN
24. JASON BYERS--------------CROSSLE
25. ANDY BRUMBAUGH--------CROSSLE 35
26. DEANE TANK----------------TITAN MK6
27. KEVIN SMITH---------------72 TITAN 6B
28. JON HIRST-----------------FERRET
29. JIM LOCKE-----------------GEMINI
30. STEVE BEELER--------------LOLA
31. WES ALLEN-----------------MERLYN
32. HANS IWAND---------------EAGLE
33. BRUCE DENTH--------------EAGLE
34. TOM TIPSWORD-----------81 VAN DIEMAN
35. JACK SCHER---------------CROSSLE
36. MARK KELLER--------------CROSSLE
37. LARRY BANGHERT---------CROSSLE
38. JAMES HEPBURN-----------CROSSLE
39. STEWART PATTERSON----CROSSLE 32

[stonebridge20]

The following club ford drivers have all been suggested in above threads as ones to watch if they race at the 40th. Do you have any additions?
JOHN HILL
JS BROOKS
TODD BARDWELL
PHIL KINGMAN Z10
STEVE ROBERTSON
DAN HARMISON
REX GUNNING Z10
RALPH HILL
TIM COX
SHAUN MODISETTE
BOB HATLE
STEVE LUFTMAN
PATTERSON
PITTENGER
NEIL SHELTON
JUSTIN PRUSKOWSKI
BOB SPREEN
RODNEY JESSON
SCOTT HUTCHENSON
KEVEN SMITH
MARK BLANC
SHAUN MODISETTE

I think you should add Mike Rand to the list and probably Jeremy Treadway also.

[Scott Hanba]

I think Jason Byers in this post is hinting at showing up in a Crossle. I'd expect him to be up there.

[Dave Woodmancy]

I was lucky enough to witness Byers "Shakedown" of his Crossle, which basically consisted of some very intense nose to tail racing with a very fast F500(Front row 2008 Runoffs). Jason's Crossle is almost as good looking as it is fast. My bet is you will see him near the front!

[CF56]

I suggest Andy Brumbaugh who held the Road Atlanta CF lap record from 2000 until this month's ARRC.

[Garey Guzman]

I suggest Andy Brumbaugh who held the Road Atlanta CF lap record from 2000 until this month's ARRC.

Are you going to let him drive yours or is he getting his own?

[Bernard Bradpiece]

Doing a little searching, I found the same CF record Al found. I also found the FF record from the same source. Looking for vintage FF times, the best I found was from the Redman in 2007 and I don't know whether it is a record. It looks like there may be opportunities for a new CF record. Looks interesting!

http://www.cendiv-scca.org/03racing/...Post%20Cat.htm

http://www.mylaps.com/results/showru...509&perclass=1

VFF 2:32.416 (Race, 2:31.584 Qualifying – Records?) Deane Tank Titan Mk6 (?) 07/22/2007

CFF 2:32.291 Scott Hutchison Van Diemen RF79 08/29/1998

FF 2:22.056 Tim Kautz Piper DF2D 07/27/2008 (Record listed as 2007, but date seems to be 2008

- Frank C

Kevin Smith ('72 Titan 6B) did 2-30.89 in he race at May 2007 SVRA meet. There are a number of vintage '72 Titans on treaded Dunlops that are pretty quick up in Wisconsin.
BB

[CF56]

Are you going to let him drive yours or is he getting his own?

Unless Andy has a Pro race conflict I'll put him in the family Crossle for this event. If the schedule is friendly maybe I'll run with FF as well but Andy does the CF race.

[BWC54]

The CF race will probably be more interesting to watch than the FF race.

[Rick Lovett]

Because John and Ralph Hill only have one Crossle between the two of them,
I'd say Ralph in the Crossle and John in his new car - Cliff Johnson's ex-DB6.
Neil Shelton is talking about entering in his Crossle. Hopefull Bob Spreen and Rod Jessen will tag along.

[dbardell]

The CF race will probably be more interesting to watch than the FF race.

the CF race will be "the" race of the weekend. the sprints will already have given us a preveiw of the FF race but no one will know what to expect in the CF race.

[David Clubine]

I would thow a Canadian name into the hat, Jon Hirst. He gets his Ferret around very well at Mosport, and I think he will be at the sharp end of the grid a Road America.

[dbardell]

Can anyone help fill in the missing cars on the above list. It looks like a Crossle party so far.

[T644HU05]

Hell, this is as good watching the race! I bet it goes to a Crossle though. They are so well sorted throughout the country. I think the Titans may loose out aero wise. I wonder what Vegas would do the odds at? Home field in a Crossle, who's that? That's the winner.

[akilcoyne]

How about:
Jim Locke in his Gemini
Steve Beeler in his Lola
Wes Allen in his Merlyn


You could start a seperate thread on people who still have cars that we haven't seen in a while or other noteable drivers that could finish on the podium:

Hans Iwand in an Eagle
Bruce Drenth in an Eagle
Tom Tipsword in his '81 Van Diemen

Anyone bringing an ADF or a Viking?

[Garey Guzman]

Are Vikings eligible? I thought that all but one was all inboard suspension. Does that matter or is it old enough to be a CFF regardless?

[se7en]

What about adding Jack Scher (Crossle'), Mark Keller (Crossle'), Larry Banghert (Crossle') and (maybe) James Hepburn (Crossle'), all from the Pac NW, to the List?
Ken

[andyllc]

This is just going to be an awesome event. Any predictions on the number of entries for each category?

I think....

FF 30
CF 55
Vintage I dont know, I don't follow that group enough to have any clue.

[Michael Rand]

Andy,
We think, hope, expect that your numbers are way low.
Given the response to date and the enthusiasm the fields are expected to be more like :
FF, 70-80 The fact that the Runoffs is 2 months later will have an impact on this group for sure
CF, 55-60 but this race will also incorporate FF's with non-National licensed drivers, maybe another 20-30 for a totasl group of 70-80 at least
VF, Hoping for 50 and as the Monoposto Group has declared their races points paying races for their 2009 FF Championship that is not unreasonable. Virtually every Vintage Ford we know of East of the Mississippi is expected plus numerous truckloads of cars from Colorado, Arizona, Califonia and the Northwest.
And there looks to be a strong Canadian presence in all three catagories.
We will be surprised of the total FF entry is below 150 cars and won't be surprised if more than 200 come to play.
The Region expects to open entrys late in February.
We'll have the tentative event schedule posted very soon. Each group will have around 2 hours of track time over the Friday/Saturday/Sunday of the event with several sessions available on the Thursday test day.
Mike

[Ron Tebo]

I have (had) an RF78...why wasn't i fast???

[T644HU05]

Are Jake Lamonts gearing "suggestions" optimistic or is 132+ realistic! Anyone have a good used 26/25 for sale?

[mblanc]

Del,

Since you started this thread, guess you got your answer now.


Congrats to you and Liberty Motorsports,
well done, not only beautiful, but fast.


Marc

[dbardell]

It is hard to say who has the fastest car... with Andy's motor problem, Jeremy weight issue, your offroad excursion and Niki's tire going flat.

Andy (Liberty Motorsports) did a great job of putting together the pieces and having it run that fast right out of the box.

Niki hopped into a car that he only had a few minutes in before the first practice and was at the top of the time sheet (with a nearly flat tire). Each session he came in with a nearly flat front tire as they could not stop a leak in the rim.

Throw in Tony, Jason, Todd and few others and maybe we can sell Speed on a Top Twelve Club Ford shootout live from the Runoffs?

I am looking forward to going to Blackhawk and testing. I have not even driven it yet... Heck, I may even go to the Blackhawk MC race next month. Are you interested in showing an old man how to go fast again?

Thanks to all of the drivers for providing us in the stands with one of the greatest Formula Fords races of all time.

GREAT JOB TO EVERYONE INVOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fast04]

Garey,

I don't know if any of the faster Vintage guys will be inclined to go do the 40th, but Tim Cox, Shaun Modisette, Bob Hatle and Steve Luftman have all run official times under that lap record with VARA. Tim Cox with the quickest time at a 1:50.275. Granted those aren't official SCCA CF's, but they are all Crossle32's on American Racers.

HSR West has some pretty quick Club Fords as well, but none of them have been officially under a 1:52...the Pattersons and Pittenger run in the 52's.

The SFR has some quick CF's as well. At the SCCA fall classic in 06 at Laguna some of the VARA regulars made the trek up north. They swept the top 5. I don't remember who finished 6th, but Nosler in a Porter prepped Crossle finished 7th.

Here is some interesting viewing from one of The Series qualifying sessions the top 5 cars are under 1.52 at Cal Speedway and the competition continues throughout the 29 car field!

http://mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=859685

I was watching this weekend and it was a great battle out front!

Mark

[Daryl DeArman]

Looks like it was a fast weekend. The Paterson's almost got down to Cox and Modisette territory.

I believe Hatle was the only "series" regular who made the trek back to the 40th. Part of an extended marathon tour of consecutive weekends at various tracks....all without returning home....someday when I retire

[Fast04]

Yeah, Hatle's trip sounds like fun! I think Dan Cowdry (and possibly Norm?) made the trek out for the 40th too.

Wish I had the cash to travel out! I am bummed I missed it!

Mark

[frank harry]

http://mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=859685

Looking at the participation numbers and the close lap times it seems this HSR group really has it going good out on the West coast . I understand they allow all FFs together no matter the vintage or tire .
All sorts of cars from all three " sub " classes running together on track at the same time .
We need more of this nationally.
Well done .

[Fast04]

Frank,
We do have it going well in the Series! The Series was founded in 2006 out of a desire to bring back competitive Formula Ford racing in the Southwest. The Series runs in conjunction with HSR and through October 2008 the average race entry was 28 FF’s! I believe the success of the Series is indeed due to the competitive racing throughout the field as you can see in mylaps. In my opinion the close competition is attributed to the tires. In the Series FF’s and CF’s run the American Racers while the HFF’s run either the AR’s or treaded Dunlops. The American Racers seem to be the great equalizer, though the Dunlops spice things up by offering grip sooner while the AR’s take a while to warm up.

Everyone who participates in the Series has enjoyed running together and even the sharp end of the grid can be seen after races having dinner together and having a healthy dose of bench racing instead of retreating to the cruxes of civilization and quibbling about apples and oranges. The Series has succeeded in creating a friendly, competitive and equal atmosphere. It does harken back to a golden age, and would be amazing to see on a national scale! I have heard musings about a competitive national event where all generations would be racing each other under similar rules, so hopefully that comes together soon!

Mark