Kephart Wheel intrigue?

[John Robinson II]

Doug,
I dont really think this a big issue. I dont know if anyone can get any more of these pieces and only 1 person has these in FF sizes, mine are FC. AFWIW, they were about twice what I paid for the last panasports.

John #201

[dc]

It might be an issue of they are not manufactured or mass produced and only a couple of guys ever can get them, though. That's the only way I can see these being a problem with the masses, IMO. Now you're talking about a one-off unobtanium part.

That's unfortunate. I was looking forward to picking up some second-hand Panasports.

[R. Pare]

It is just that now it is one more piece that the top guys will all have to spend.

What makes you thing that they will be made available to the masses?

Now you're talking about a one-off unobtanium part.

Not really - Bill, and others, spent their money as allowed within the rules and everyone else has that same opportunity. No different than any other special part, only this particular one is readily visible.


This ain't spec racing!

[bhayes]

With all of the speculation being posted, I decided to call Bill Jongbloed to get the facts.

He told me that the FF wheels will be available to the masses. Cost is $2400/set if pre-paid by the end of January. $2800/set after that. Delivery in about 6 weeks.

So if you want them, all you gotta do is open up the checkbook!

[M.Sauce]

In my opinion this type of cost increase for set of wheels for a perceived advantage is BS and not good for the class.Mr. Kephart can afford anything he wants but 98% of the other competitors cannot.I appreciate the engineering and the cleverness of the wheel.If it ever proves that you have to have a set of these wheels to be competitive down the straightaway at Road America,it will hurt the class in the long run.I was told at the Runoffs these wheels would be the same price as a new set of OZ's.I guess that is not so.

[TimW]

I was told at the Runoffs these wheels would be the same price as a new set of OZ's.I guess that is not so.

I do think that was the price then...but it seems the more who talk to him the price goes up as the perceived demand goes up...

[Matt King]

Isn't that the opposite of prevailing economic theory? Oh, wait...normal economics don't apply to racing. Forget that.

[John Nesbitt]

This is a horse which should not have escaped the barn. But it's too late to bar the door.

If reports are to be believed, they will give up to .5 sec per mile of track. Much more still at Road America. So anybody who aspires to the front half of the pack must buy them. The existing wheels are toast.

As a service to the community, I shall be willing to accept your nasty old Tecnos. Just to keep them from wasting space in your garage. If they are super-clean and well-packed, I am even willing to pay for the shipping.

Am I nice guy, or what?

[reidhazelton]

If it ever proves that you have to have a set of these wheels to be competitive down the straightaway at Road America,it will hurt the class in the long run.

Not so Mr. S.- Since they destroyed the rule that was the debate with these wheels, we can affix a sic set of 50's Moon hub caps to our Panasports and have the same advantage!!! I saw JC Whitney selling a set for under $45! How can you go wrong? Sure one could come loose and turn into a flying decapitator, a la Odd Job's hat in Goldfinger, but it is a hell of a lot cheaper than $$$$ for these wheels. How could this be bad??

.5 seconds per mile of track, humm... Road America is 4 miles, so by my math (wait...let me count on my fingers..) ok..thats 2 seconds!! True, or hearsay? I looked at the June Sprints times, both wet and dry, and it did not show an advantage. If these were truly worth 2 seconds I would assume Tonis would have been well ahead of where he was. I know there are many other variables too numerous to count, but 2 seconds should be easily noticed.

I was surprised they struck the entire line about fairing the wheel. WHY?! Why not reform the rule to how it was intended to be and let these wheels die. I am not a big fan of spending huge amounts of money so a few guys can all go faster by the same amount, gaining no advantage over the next guy with them. Why not adapt the steel wheel rule like all other FFs in the world?

Guess we will see for sure the benefit at Road America this year with all the opportunities to run there.

-Polishing my Panasports,

RH

[stonebridge20]

I was told at the Runoffs these wheels would be the same price as a new set of OZ's.I guess that is not so.

Mike, Was that before or after the petition was put in front of you?




Mike,

[John Nesbitt]

.5 seconds per mile of track, humm... Road America is 4 miles, so by my math (wait...let me count on my fingers..) ok..thats 2 seconds!! True, or hearsay? I looked at the June Sprints times, both wet and dry, and it did not show an advantage. If these were truly worth 2 seconds I would assume Tonis would have been well ahead of where he was. I know there are many other variables too numerous to count, but 2 seconds should be easily noticed.

You did see the wink in my post?

[reidhazelton]

opps...thought that was a wink about your kindheartedness. For which I am also a kind soul willing to help people out with their Panasports.

Regardless, if it is not .5 seconds/mile of track, if it is any large advantage a lot of people are kinda screwed.

How about a group buy on some Moonies?!

[Art Smith]

we need to keep the facts straight or at least accurate! the wheels in question were found compliant with the "old rule" as written by both the stewards AND the Court of Appeals. the "old rule" is called the "old rule" because it'd been written that way for as long as I can remember. a better mousetrap within the rules as written (ie: formula) is a better mousetrap, not something to be excluded because you didn't think of it, or it's not your version of pretty, or it costs a couple of bucks, or .................

if you have beef, it's with the CRB and/or the BOD; they're the ones that deleted a rule added for safety with NO replacement. accountability is the only viable solution I see to that situation!!! anyone who was on the mountain with Moses and knows first hand the "intent" should explain to us less fortunate folks why the rule was written in the manner it was; after all some very capable folks participated in the formulation of most of the rules we have. that said, there are FAR TOO MANY rules that are not yet objectively verifiable and in my view most of the rules changed in the last five years are far worse after the "improvement(s)" and have larger holes.

Art
artesmith@earthlink.net

[M.Sauce]

Tim- Bill himself told me they were about the same price as a set of OZ's.Mike- I did not sign the petition.It would have been wrong for me to do so in my position.As far as the rule change, the BOD accepted what the CRB sent them.I explained that in my opinion this was wrong but most of the BOD do not understand the technical side of the rules process.I personally had to abstain as I race in the class affected.In my opinion the rule change on the hubcaps was a mistake.We will see how it plays out at the Runoffs this year.

[flycoop]

Exit corners 1,3,8,12,14 just a mile an hour or two quicker and there's your two seconds.

IMHO, the best aero device this year at RA will be the FF just in front of you....use it well and you will be rewarded!

I am also looking for another set of used wheels, guess that will put me mid pack or so?

Tim
FF88

[dc]

So has anyone fabricated a simple set of "discs" for wheel covers yet?

[Greg Mercurio]

Mike: Can you post how many letters the CRB received both for and against?

[DanW]

So has anyone fabricated a simple set of "discs" for wheel covers yet?

Doug,

Two simple words... "Moon Equipped" Less than $30 a piece.

I think it would be a hoot if everyone at the runoffs showed up with them on grid for the race. Dean Moon would be very proud.

Contingency sponsor sticker below:



Regards,
Dan Wise

[Brad Ellingson]

I am also looking for another set of used wheels, guess that will put me mid pack or so?

Tim
FF88

Somehow I doubt you will be anywhere near mid pack.

[Frank C]

Is Dan proposing a "Mooning" of the stewards?
- Frank C

[Phil Creighton]

I don't want to add fuel to this fire but I was always told that wheel covers fell under the prohibition of hubcaps. I know it came up years ago in S2 at Road America.

9.3.10 of the GCR states that 'hub caps must be removed' in all classes - all we did in Dec was to get rid of redundant wording in FF and I thought at the time as it was covered by this rule in the GCR.

Phil Creighton
Area 12 Director

[Wren]

I don't want to add fuel to this fire but I was always told that wheel covers fell under the prohibition of hubcaps. I know it came up years ago in S2 at Road America.

9.3.10 of the GCR states that 'hub caps must be removed' in all classes - all we did in Dec was to get rid of redundant wording in FF and I thought at the time as it was covered by this rule in the GCR.

Phil Creighton
Area 12 Director

That rule should still prohibit things like moon caps. These wheels are different b/c the outer part is absolutely essential, regardless of what some people have claimed in this thread.