Poll on the maximum wheelbase issue

[Jnovak]

There have been numerous inquiries & comments on the maximum wheelbase of an F500. The current maximum is 80"'

[rickb99]

I voted in this pole even though we don't have an F500 at the moment. We are watching the 600cc work and find it very interesting.

But, the driver is 74 inches plus tall. Now, that means a lotta crunching to squeeze into an 80" wheel base. I think a lot of tall(er) drivers might consider the class if they were a little roomier.

[Daryl DeArman]

Also one watching the F600 deal with interest.

My concerns....

1) Will increasing the wheelbase make today's competitive cars uncompetitive tomorrow?

2) Safety---Take a 6' driver, what is the shortest practical wheelbase that can provide a safe car (drivers feet behind the front axle centerline) and yet remain reclined enough to have a good frontal area?

[Purple Frog]

I voted "yes" and here's why:

I'm interested in this class as one I would put my grandkids into, because I think it's safer than karting. My grandkid's father is 6'7'', they are already way tall for their age. I fear at 16 they won't safely fit in a F600 at 80".

I recognize that Jay is trying hard to not disenfranchise the F500 base. And he's thinking the fastest "ramp up" is to convert existing chassis. A good and noble idea.

In the end though, I believe the cars would be faster, more fun to drive, and more relevant if the wheelbase were designed closer to what we know would be optimum with current tire technology, etc.

Ask an engineer if they were designing a F600 on a blank sheet of paper what wheelbase they would start with. You'll have your answer.

Doing things "because that's the way we've always done it", can get you in trouble.

OBTW, after watching the large FST field at the ARRC, I believe they also are handicapped by their imposed too short wheelbase.

Jay and I emailed back and forth this discussion shortly after ARRC. I respect Jay a bunch. I stayed quiet on the web because of his goal to move forward without stir. He increased that respect by starting this poll.

[Bill Bonow]

OBTW, after watching the large FST field at the ARRC, I believe they also are handicapped by their imposed too short wheelbase.

Not trying to side track the thread, just add info. The FST wheel base limit is 85.5" and I think the F600 rules wish to grow wheelbase to 85" (?). So your thinking 90" or more?

[tedsimmons2]

I voted No but with reservations.

I think an increase in the wheelbase would be a good idea but you WILL immediately obsolete the 80” cars already running in the class. This has already happened years ago when the wheelbase was 73” and moved to 80”. Almost immediately the 73” chassis became solo only. My understanding of the reason for the change from 73” to 80” was safety. The intent of including the 600cc motor is to provide an alternative to the 2-stroke 500cc motor and not disenfranchise anyone currently running in the F500 class. What’s the reason for this proposed chassis change? While a wheelbase increase might be best for the class in the long run you have to consider if the class would survive the transition years. Are there enough people willing to pony up for a new purpose built 600cc/85” wheelbase car soon enough to keep the class alive? With a change to both motor and chassis this class is looking less and less like the original concept of the F500 class. Maybe that’s good, maybe it’s not. Willing to listen and learn.

Ted Simmons

[u00mem9]

I think there should be no wheelbase limit. With the overall width limit, there is a natural desire to reduce wheelbase as a designer will not want a tremendous WB to track ratio. 90" would already be extremely high.

However, to prevent the creation of laydown driving position that some might try to use (with no WB limit), we should have a minimum roll bar height or seatback angle.

Matt

[Jnovak]

I am leaning towards leaving the wheelbase at the current 80" maximum for some reasonable time period. Perhaps with the intent of an increase after 5 years. This will give plenty of time to allow for planning the longer wheelbase.

Another alternative would be to handicap the longer wheelbase by setting the weight for all 2 stroke cars at 800 lbs & the 600cc cars at 850 lbs. I suspect that this would really handicap the 600cc cars.

THESE ARE JUST THOUGHTS & NOT PROPOSALS. Again the most important issue is to make certain that the current F500 cars are not out of business but can still win whereever they race.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[Jnovak]

Here is a copied post from Jack Walbran, a long time F500 racer. Jack really says it best. This is from http://www.eformulacarnews.com/viewt...r=asc&start=15 There are a lot of good posts on the 600 project over there.

In my opinion, for there to be any chance for the 600cc motorcycle to go forward, it has to be put forward as a stand alone proposition, tested in regional competition against competitive F500s, and demonstrated to be no more than competitive with those cars, as is or with competition adjustments (up to but not to exceed 850 pounds and/or restrictors). Barring an EPA rule change that sunsets the 500 engines, there is no other chance that a majority of the class will not oppose, much less support, the change. They can not be threatened with obsolescence.

That is why this proposal can not be loaded up with wheel base, shock, or wheel/tire size issues. We need to get the 600cc engine on track so it can be evaluated and competitive balance demonstrated.

That is also why we will have to improve the proposal to clearly set out the competitive-with-500-engine cars objective for the CRB.

Finally, I think we need to plan to give the 600cc engine a long enough stand alone test at the Regional level to build a fair amount of credibility for the competitiveness proposition.

Jack Walbran

[mmi16]

I am undecided on changes to the wheelbase rules. Potentially, the rules should specify only maximum/minimum length and maximum/minimum width of the cars and let the wheelbase be free within those constraints.

[cronje racing]

I am undecided on changes to the wheelbase rules. Potentially, the rules should specify only maximum/minimum length and maximum/minimum width of the cars and let the wheelbase be free within those constraints.

At the height of 6'2" the tub is tight and if the new rules were accepted , you would see 4 new competitors (2 Junior and 2 senior) on the track in a flash.A lot of karters in Florida are looking to step up to the next level and we are all waiting to see what transpires before gearing up.

Mark Cronje

[cronje racing]

Here is a copied post from Jack Walbran, a long time F500 racer. Jack really says it best. This is from http://www.eformulacarnews.com/viewt...r=asc&start=15 There are a lot of good posts on the 600 project over there.

In my opinion, for there to be any chance for the 600cc motorcycle to go forward, it has to be put forward as a stand alone proposition, tested in regional competition against competitive F500s, and demonstrated to be no more than competitive with those cars, as is or with competition adjustments (up to but not to exceed 850 pounds and/or restrictors). Barring an EPA rule change that sunsets the 500 engines, there is no other chance that a majority of the class will not oppose, much less support, the change. They can not be threatened with obsolescence.

That is why this proposal can not be loaded up with wheel base, shock, or wheel/tire size issues. We need to get the 600cc engine on track so it can be evaluated and competitive balance demonstrated.

That is also why we will have to improve the proposal to clearly set out the competitive-with-500-engine cars objective for the CRB.

Finally, I think we need to plan to give the 600cc engine a long enough stand alone test at the Regional level to build a fair amount of credibility for the competitiveness proposition.

Jack Walbran

Good news Jack,Look how formula Jedi has attracted races and crowds in the UK.(www.formulajedi.com). We should base the new motors with re-designed chassis and features such as the F-Jedi and it will give F-Mazda a run for its money.

[preform resources]

BTW; the Jedi wheelbase is 85" coincidentally.
Dave craddock

[cronje racing]

Thanks Dave.I dont have any data on the Jedi class but Thomas Scheckter sent me the links and a great class with a lot of potential.DJ Stewart from Florida is promoting the F500 here in Florida and due to his efforts has attracted 4 new prospective racers.About the issue on 4 cycle 600 cc motorcycle motors,who and when will a decision be made to legalise these motors.

Mark Cronje