Fuel Cel leak

[Blair Robertshaw]

That's the NEW "Guy line" of Bathroom fragrance recently picked up at the last CRAFT SALE we were at honey!

That's what I'm going with!

[group7]

Just don't ever let the "little woman" catch you preheating car parts in her oven. Trust me on this one.
Daryl Calgary AB

[DanW]

There was first a big storm when she walked in.

What followed was a stony, frosty, silence when she discovered I used the oven to heat up the ring gear and the freezer to chill the flywheel before pounding the the ring gear onto the flywheel on the kitchen floor.

As the saying goes, don't try this at home. Get an old gas grill instead.

Sorry for the hijack.

Dan Wise

[Roger Eade]

Done that, still paying for it 20 years later, women tend to drag these things up way after a man has moved on! elephants have long memorys Ha, not as long as a woman
Roger

[Blair Robertshaw]

Hello all,

The fuel cell has been "Ammonia" tested, (among several other tests) by an Aircraft Fuel Repair shop and they found 3 more pin holes bringing the total to 12. They are ALL OVER the cell. Not in any one particular spot, crease or seam!

With respect to the re assemble; I would like to include a drilled ABS tube, to remain in the tank, to aid in fuel measurement. Some of you have commented on this before but I do not recall if any of you mentioned the type of material that is acceptable in the cell.

Does anyone know of a suitable tube material that can be safely used for this application?

Thanks in advance.

[RussMcB]

I used regular (house plumbing?) white PVC pipe from Home Depot. I think I investigated it at the time to make sure it was compatible with gasoline, but to be honest, I can't remember for sure. It's still in good shape after one year and it definitely helps with the dipstick not catching on the foam.

[Charles Warner]

Standard PVC will eventually break down in gasoline after years, leaving a fine residue in the gas. I do not know whether it will clog a filter. Easy fix. Change the tube every year and you'll be fine, or just use an ally tube and be done with it.

[Blair Robertshaw]

Thanks Boys.

[RussMcB]

Standard PVC will eventually break down in gasoline after years, leaving a fine residue in the gas. I do not know whether it will clog a filter. Easy fix. Change the tube every year and you'll be fine, or just use an ally tube and be done with it.

That sounds like a good plan.

Another reason why the PVC sounded like a better idea than something harder or heavier - I didn't want something that might hurt the bottom of the fuel cell.

[Charles Warner]

That sounds like a good plan.

Another reason why the PVC sounded like a better idea than something harder or heavier - I didn't want something that might hurt the bottom of the fuel cell.

Get a vinyl (not rubber) furniture leg protector that fits over the bottom of ally tub that will protect the cell. Or, take a small square piece of fuel cell foam and insert the tube half way, securing with a tie wrap or safety wire.

[Daryl DeArman]

Anybody ever have a foreign object in the fuel cell cause the fuel to fail either the reagent or DC test?

[Blair Robertshaw]

Hello all,

I spoke with the Aircraft Fuel Cell Repair shop today and they advised the cell can be easily repaired. The testing procedure they employed is known as the "Fennel Thylene" Test.
(I have no idea if that is how to spell it). The cell was put through several rigorous test' to confirm the state of the cell prior to repair and pinholes are the problem. They were all over the cell, no specific area.

My car had a thorough frame up rebuild in 06 and as such the cell had been removed and taped off but with "Racer Tape" which apparently is wrong and the tape was done, for sure. The cell repair company sells the correct tape for $16.00 a roll.

The rapair cost is estimated to be between $380 and $500. The turnaround for the repair is expected to be 8 days from today.

I will post the final cost, all in and photo's of the repaired cell once it arrives.

[Rick Kirchner]

phenolthalene. From what I gather, you place a phenol impregnated cloth in the area of suspected leaks and fill the cell with a slightly basic solution. Leaks will turn the cloth pink.

[Blair Robertshaw]

Thanks for the correct spelling Rick. I think they mentioned they fill it with Ammonia and also pure alcohol comes into the mix in some way!

What I do know for sure is I will have a fixed cell for considerably less than a one! Look for photos next week.

Thanks folks.

[D.T. Benner]

$500 to repair a leaking fuel cell? Do they give you any garrantee of the extended life span for it? Seems like a lot to spend when you may end up replacing it in an unknown time span?

[Charles Warner]

$500 to repair a leaking fuel cell? Do they give you any garrantee of the extended life span for it? Seems like a lot to spend when you may end up replacing it in an unknown time span?

About 4 years ago I had two March F1 cells resealed for $270 each with no shipping or tax. They are huge cells with a lot of small pockets and channels. So, $300-$500 (I hope not Canadian) seems in the ballpark.

And, no, there will be no guarantees or certification.

[Rick Kirchner]

Charles - who did that work for you?

[Blair Robertshaw]

Thanks for the heads up DT!. I do know how much saving money can cost and a constant reminder is always appreciated! I did however ask myself the same question you present.

After speaking with the company and confirming their reputation I do feel comfortable in proceeding.

I look forward to posting the repaired cell and the succesful install and operation.

Charles, the cost is in Canadian and as of today I wish I was shopping stateside!!! They will not certify their work as the cell is old but they will guarentee the work they do.

Thanks again for the input.

[Charles Warner]

Charles - who did that work for you?

An aviation fuel cell shop in Memphis.

[D.T. Benner]

Blair,what got my attention was the statement that the pin hole leaks were all over the cell. That would seem to indicate that the material the cell was made from has been compromised? Not trying to convince you not to have the work done and save some money but as you found out the labor to R & R one of these is a big job and by replacing it with a new one you would not have to face that again for a longer time?

[Rick Kirchner]

DT - that was exactly the problem my OEM ATL cell had when I checked it back in 2002. Dozens of pinhole leaks. Mostly on the bottom, where gravel in the cell container might have helped, but also on every other surface.

[BR21]

Hello all and D.T.,

I spoke with the Fuel Cell Repair company and brought up your astute comment with respect to the "all over pinholes" and in fact the cell will be completely 100% coated with new material specific to the cell.

They will give a 3 year warranty on the work they do. Sooo, I am still feeling comfortable with the path taken. I hope it doesnt come back to bite me in the butt and give you the opportunity to say......

"see I told ya so".

Thanks for the heads up D.T.

Cell will be here next week. I will post finished photos of the before and after.

Thanks guys.

[Blair Robertshaw]

Hello all,

The fuel cell has had 12 pinholes repaired individually / locally and is now being completely re-coated and then baked at 250 degrees for the next 24 hours. Once removed from the oven the cell will be tested again and if all goes well the cell should be back in my hands by next Thursday.

Look forward to posting pictures.

bye for now!

[Blair Robertshaw]

Hello all,

received my fuel cell back from the repair shop today. The cell ultimately had to be completely re-coated and baked. The process was quite extensive. Basically I was going to be around $1500 by the time I got a new replacement cell back into my hands.

The repair shop said from the onset that they would test the cell and if it was beyond repair I would be out of pocket $80 for the testing plus my freight charges to them and back.

They ordered the material that the cell is made of once they confirmed it could be repaired. Upon completion my total cost to them was $440 and I bought the real mccoy cavity tape for another $15.50 for a total of $555.50, add my freight there and back and I am at around $650.00

They do guarantee their work and it is Certified.

I have included three photos;

Certification / front / back.

The repair shop did ask that I put the Manufacturers Legend back on the tank using a white permanent marker. I will also mark this repair date on the tank.

These guys do have a shop in Minn. so if any of you go down this road you wont have any grief with Customs and so on.

Thanks for everyones input and guidence. Trully appreciated on my end.

Respectfully,

Blair Robertshaw

[rickb99]

Blair,

So glad to see you've finally got this one solved! The cell looks great.

But your one statement has me confused.

"......around $1500 by the time I got a new replacement cell back into my hands."

What is that all about? If you ordered a brand new one from someplace????

[Blair Robertshaw]

Yes Rick, I was speaking to a NEW replacement. Britain West had them for around $1300 plus shipping and Primus had them at $1265 plus shipping and if I took it from there I would have duty, customs brokerage as well as shipping.

Sorry for the confusion!

Oh ya! They even gave me a new cork inspection plate gasket!

[glenn cooper]

and I see a puddle of fuel behind the cell enclosure, in the little well of my RF98.
I guess all this talk about cells leaking and the one in my car just hadta jump on in...
Groan.

I pulled the pup, put caps on the outlets, immersed it in MY tub (no Ol' lady to bitch!), and wouldn't ya know, 2 pin holes, and I mean pin, right along the seam, 'bout right behind the base of a drivers shoulder blades. I had to really push on the cell, took my pants off and jumped on top of the thing (!) in the tub to barely make some air bubbles appear.

After reading all the posts, it looks like it would leak if there were at least 3 or 4 gallons in it, and the rate of leakage allowed enough evaporation, so it looked small.
I'll try the repair route, as everything else looks good, and the material feels pretty supple.

The bad bit is that the ARRC is coming up in a few weeks and if the repair facility needs weeks to turn the bit around... looks like I'll have to pop for a freshie.

Hey what's another $1500 thrown into the hole, especially in these wonderful economic times? What was that Russ was saying about severly reducing racing expenditures????

Cartman - "Screw you guys, I'm going home"

GC

[Bob Coury]

We use PR1440 by Desoto Fuel Tank Sealant at work to seal surfaces during new assy. Check out their website to see if it is appropriate for reparing by applying to the inside of the bladder. Aircraft Spruce may have it.

[Blair Robertshaw]

Glen,

you may want to try Hartwig in Winnipeg or their Minnisota shop for a quick turnaround. If you call ask for Butch (he is in Winnipeg). They have the material in stock as far as I know. Also, if you found pinholes with air there will be many more with fuel in the cell, count on it!

Hartwig saved me about $900 skins.

HARTWIG AIRCRAFT FUEL CELL REPAIR, Winnipeg Manitoba.

[Charles Warner]

The bad bit is that the ARRC is coming up in a few weeks and if the repair facility needs weeks to turn the bit around... looks like I'll have to pop for a freshie.GC

Glen,

I'll make the same recommendation again. I'd bet, in the Atlanta area, there are several aviation fuel cell shops. Go to them. I had a cell with several holes drilled in it (don't ask!) as well as several pin hole leaks. I got the cell repaired, re-coated and sealed on the inside, and pressure tested in TWO days. Sounds like you have a lot more time than that. The cost was less than $200. (Granted, that was a several years ago, but I had two March F1 cells done two years a go for less than $300 each.)

However, if you just want to spend the money . . . . . . .

[Craig Henry]

Hi Stan,

Any updates with respect to approving FAA certified fuel cell repair facilities to repair / overhaul our cells? I had Eagle Fuel Cells overhaul and replace the foam in my S2’s Premier cell for $200.00 a few years back. I’d like to do the same for the FF vs. $1,300.00 for a new one.

Appreciate all your help.

Craig