Have Ambition, Will Go Speedily

[MadCat360]

Hi guys. I'll spell this out quickly.

I want to race professionally. I've just finished my beginning year in racing, driving in the Jim Russell karting series. I'm 18. I've had two podiums and 1 pole out of the 8 races we ran this year (in 10 to 15-kart fields), and it looks like I'll be in the top 10 finishers at the least (the points haven't been announced yet). So we know I'm quick.

I've been looking on the net for a long time about info or anything I can find that will give me clues about how to go about ascending the ladder, as it were. I've found loads of stuff. But at the same time I'm pretty confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there.

I was told SCCA is the way to go. Then I was told SCCA is almost dead and that I should go with a school series, like Skip Barber Formula. Then I was told I should skip the overpriced school series and go straight for sponsorship and the big leagues. On and on like this.

I know where I want to end up. I want to race sports cars, like FIA GT or American LeMans, but I'd be happy racing anything for money.

But how do I break into the professional realm? Does anyone know?

Do I bite the bullet and pay the 35 grand up-front for the Barber regional series?

Do I buy my own car (probably either Formula First or F500) and race in the SCCA or NASA? (I'd have a shop take care of the car and haul it for me since I don't have any skills or facilities for storing and maintaining race cars)

Do I try my best, as a fledgling no-name, to acquire sponsorship and race in something like Koni Challenge, Indy Lights or Star Mazda?

I know WHAT I want to do and WHERE I want to go, but I don't know HOW to do it. So I'm looking for opinions.

Many thanks.

[Purple Frog]

First you need at least $200,000 US and the attitude that it won't bother you if it all disappears in less than a year...

If the answer to that is 'yes', then we can talk.

If the answer is 'no', stay in school, get a good career started, so that someday the answer to question number 1 will be "yes".

the Purple Dream Smasher strikes again.

[HazelNut]

find $$$$ and lots of it.

Be it from sponsorship, rich parents, adoption by rich parents, developing the next paypal, etc. Once you've acquired the funds, get ready to spend it.

[Brian]

Podiums and top tens don't cut it. The golden rule is pay the money to buy a ride with a top team in any serious series - FF2000, FBMW, Barber - and then dominate. If you don't win races outright in your first season and the championship in your second, you won't get a chance to move up to the next level without outright buying your ride. By the time you win the Indy Lights championship, you can start to hope to actually have people hire you to drive, rather than you bring the money and skim some off the top of your sponsorship to pay your expenses and walk-around money.

The vast majority of drivers in pro series, including F1 and everything below it, pay for the ride by bringing sponsorship and they make their real money either by just plain being rich in the first place, or by owning a company of some sort that pays them and funds the racing.

Brian

[carnut169]

You should talk to Cole Morgan. Argueably one of our most talented drivers, got a test in an IRL car, I believe, and did quite well. Offered a seat, but had to bring $$$$ or $$$$ sponsers along with him. Alas, he stayed in school.


It's a shame, but talent must be combined with big bucks to get into pro racing. May have better luck with short tracks and moving up that way.

[Rick Kirchner]

Carroll Smith's advice is still good. Go to England. Buy a ride with one of the best FF teams and look to move up to F3. It will take buckets of money.

If it doesn't work out you can always go to Cranfield and work on the engineering side of the sport.

[Brian]

Another route - Connor Daly found, I suspect, that a season of Formula Ford with the OFFC in Ontario is a very good way to learn how to drive a race car and learn how to race. He's going places, Kyle is going places, Shane did very well when he had a ride at Indianapolis in IPS after winning OFFC.

Drive to Win does spell out exactly how to become a professional race car driver.

Brian

[captaineddie1975]

I would not look to F500 as a path to the top. In the three years I have been in the class no one has gone on to the pros. The closest was Jay Novak's son Brian (an excellent talented young driver) who was going to go into the F2000 pro series. I never heard anything about him after that and I suspect lack of funding may have been the reason. As others have stated best way is to bring lots of money and get ready for some disappointments.

[dc]

Honestly, SCCA is not the place you want to be if you want to make a career out of racing. The SCCA touts, "Amateur and professional motorsports organization with over 55000 members, sanctioning over 2000 events each year in road racing, autocross and rallying." Traditionally, most of the SCCA's membership is amateur, which means YOU PAY TO PLAY, and there is no money to win or make.

Unfortunately, like has previously been stated, the road to professional racing takes a LOT of money. Talent just doesn't do it alone anymore. There are plenty of phenomenal drivers (and young, too) racing cars of all types in the SCCA that could fill a seat of a big-time team in any pro racing organization, but without massive amounts of money to purchase that seat, they aren't likely to go anywhere.

Danica's parents took out a second mortgage on their home to send their kid to race in Europe, where she held her own, but really didn't show anything spectacular. Without her pretty face, she probably today doesn't have the ride she does, as her massive sponsorship dollars and marketability keep her firmly planted in that car. What I'm saying is that even decent talent isn't enough to get you the 'seat' you want.





Please, don't let this discourage you if this is what you really want to do, though. There is no reason why you can't be one of those statistical anamolies and make it into the ranks of the paid to race withough massive funding behind them. Keep in mind, that in life in general, it's not what you know, it's who you know. That's no different in motorsports, as well.

[MadCat360]

Another route - Connor Daly found, I suspect, that a season of Formula Ford with the OFFC in Ontario is a very good way to learn how to drive a race car and learn how to race. He's going places, Kyle is going places, Shane did very well when he had a ride at Indianapolis in IPS after winning OFFC.

Drive to Win does spell out exactly how to become a professional race car driver.

Brian

This really caught my attention. My karting instructor, Jared Thompson, tested for a FF team in Canada in the 80's. He told me it's pretty much the only "first rung" of professional Formula in North America.

Do you have any idea how much the running costs are? I saw one other FF series in Canada that was an Arrive and Drive format that was $10,000 CDN for 8 races I think.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

EDIT: I was wrong. It's Formula 1200 and the website is here: http://www.formula1200.com/

[jerry freeman]

I've been around a lot of different kinds of motorsports either directly or working for people who had different types of cars. I'm pretty confident in saying that $10,000 won't get you started in anything that will lead to professional racing. There's only 2 things that will get you a paying ride.

1. TRUCKLOADS OF MONEY

2. Winning with those truckloads of money.

But on the bright side of things, there is always that .1% of people who make it with talent and good timing. Don't give up, your young.

Jerry

[Ted Idlof]

They just tear your heart out, don't they? And all you end up with for a conclusion is "Life ain't fair". Or worse; "if you have to ask in public like this, you have no chance."

So, Frog, how was that? Did I trump your dream smashing post?

[Brian]

You can get a decent ride in that series for about $5k - $6K a weekend, I think, testing and repairs extra. Probably do a proper season for $60K - $80K unless you buy a lot of corners, uprights, gearboxes, radiators, etc...

That's probably as cheap as you can do a season at the pointy end of any series, even if you buy a car, truck, trailer, sleep in a tent and eat frozen hot dogs, running at the front of any series is going to give you small change from $100K. A front running car in a Formula Ford series is going to take two or three guys, one of which needs to be a data geek, one a chassis engineer, one a driver coach, one a very good mechanic, one a truckie, one a jack-of-all-trades, one a cook, one a team manager, one an accountant - you get the picture. Plus the driver. Plus the drivers Dad to not only pay for all this, to also be on hand to write the checks trackside to buy the new stuff when Our Hero take a side off the car... I've seen one incident cost $15K, and the next track session cost $10K...and they put it back together and went out again. Me, I'd still be crying...

Brian

[andyllc]

Given what you stated as your goal, raise the funds to run in the Jetta TDI Cup series (<$50K) and hope you get in and drive like hell at the runoff.

[MadCat360]

Given what you stated as your goal, raise the funds to run in the Jetta TDI Cup series (<$50K) and hope you get in and drive like hell at the runoff.

Yeah. I was told by an applicant that the series costs 30k and you get two sponsors. The problem is, I watched the first race, and those cars look absolutely crazy. They hop through the corners like a bound up kart. One guy got completely airborne. An instructor for Skip Barber (Robbie Montinola) said that driving sports cars is all well and good, but nothing does you better than a good Formula car.

I'd still drive 'em, though. I'm in contact with VW and they'll be getting back to me on it in November.

[gord leach]

Plus the drivers Dad to not only pay for all this

Brian

Awwww , where were you 20 years ago with such wisdom? My only hope is "Dads" senility is in full song and maybe he can still signs cheques

Gord

[glenn cooper]

You mentioned the fervor and dedication that is burning in your heart.

Deep Breath...

Go to the video store (Google it, it's a place that rented large-ish, old timey video tape, in a box like contraption. You'll also need a VHS player to view it. Don't get a BETA player, as it takes an even larger format tape in a box contraption).

Select the movie "Tootsie", staring Dustin Hoffman, yeah that Dustin Hoffman of "Ishtar" fame.

As mentioned previously, a good looking female can go far in motorsports.

Now I've heard the rumors in regard to Danica's ascension through the ranks. Trading "favors" and whatnot for rides provided by one B Rayhall. Moustache and otherwise.
Hey, I said rumors, no facts to back it up. Anyway...

If you do decide to go the transvestite route, and you end up looking acceptable in your new Ladyboy-ish getup, you might then be able to impress with your driving skills alone.

However you will not be able to "sweeten the deal" as previously mentioned, unless you take dedication all the way to the other side of the playing field, and go completely transgender. Think Russian Woman's Weightlifting Team...

Again, it all depends on how you look as a chick. THEN everything can fall into place.

Good Luck and Regards,
GC

[captaineddie1975]

MadCat360 wrote

I know where I want to end up. I want to race sports cars, like FIA GT or American LeMans,

I just re-read your original post. What are you doing on this site? You need to be asking this question on the sports racer site ( these are all open wheel jocks here)However the answers you will get will be the same so maybe it doesn't matter anyway. You might want to check out the DSR Runoffs video under the FB section to get an idea of what you are in for with the fendered cars and this guy placed second!!!

[MadCat360]

MadCat360 wrote

I just re-read your original post. What are you doing on this site? You need to be asking this question on the sports racer site

That's just where I want to end up. What I drive to get there, I don't care! I'll drive anything, really. I just love driving. I don't care what it is. If I don't end up driving sports cars I won't cry about it.

[Ted Idlof]

Again, it all depends on how you look as a chick. THEN everything can fall into place.

Yeah, Coop's half right. Ask Milk & Donuts how she did it; not look like this (anyone can do that) but how she got a ton of that Venezulan oil money. And she's still a wanker.

[Brian]

Actually about the best way to make a living driving a race car these days is to win/place or show in Altlantic or IPS and get hired by a gentleman driver to drive his Grand Am car fast so he looks good! That's happened to a few guys recently. Of course, a guy like De Matta will probably get the call before you do (AIM Autosport for example)

Brian

[Lee Shumosic]

Hi guys. I'll spell this out quickly.

I want to race professionally. I've just finished my beginning year in racing, driving in the Jim Russell karting series. I'm 18. I've had two podiums and 1 pole out of the 8 races we ran this year (in 10 to 15-kart fields), and it looks like I'll be in the top 10 finishers at the least (the points haven't been announced yet). So we know I'm quick.

Don't we all think we're quick?????

Read the " Getting Started" thread.....lot's of very, very, very good advice.

[Tom Valet]

Every bit of advice given thus far is balls on dead accurate. Remember, however, nobody is saying it CANT be done, just that without buckets of money, it will extremely HARD to do. But it has been done before. You might want to study the career paths of those who have done it recently. Andy Lally started in karts, drove F500 with SCCA, then found a ride in F2000; now he's driving every kind of sports car you can name, and he did it all on talent alone. Same for Guy Cosmo. Patrick Long started in karts and made a name for himself; now he drives for Porsche.

There are lots of other examples. But the common theme for all of them is one thing: when given the opportunity, whatever that opportunity was, they showed that they could drive. Not just finish on the podium, but consistently win; and not just win, dominate their competitors.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

Tom

[jim morgan]

Glenn,

I suggested the sex change to Cole two years ago, he declined. I then pointed out that the"alternative lifestyle" sponsorship potential had not been tapped by motorsports. He once again declined. Once I understood his level of committment was not in line with our resources he went back to school.

Good Luck young man, but with the huge economic headwind all motorsports face in the next few years even proven drivers will go begging for rides.

[JIM McQUAIG]

One of the few drivers that didn't start off with a ton of money,and yet became a success , is Randy Pobst . He started off with autocrosses in Central Florida Region SCCA. As everyone has pointed out talent is not the only thing required to become a pro racer . And unfortunatly sometimes we are not as talented as we think we are. Dollars and cents are easy to figure . However the talent level is sometimes hard to get a grip on. I know of a 16 year old young man who spent five seasons in karts . He did ovals and road racing and won numerous championships . He now races formula fords and has done about four race weekends. His experience shows as he is very quick but still learning . I feel Formula Ford is a great car to begin racing. There are other avenues . Why not talk to someone like Dan Andersen at Andersen Racing and get his opinion. They run Pro F2000,Formula Mazda and I believe Indy Lights teams. You might also contact Randy Pobst thru SCCA e-mail. This of course is one persons opinion and others might be different. Good luck

[Scala]

My advice: if one more guy suggests you start cross-dressing, I'd suggest you offer him a punch in the mouth. Just kidding.

Anyway, if you don't mind the prospect of years of 'labour for laps' followed by long-term prospects of behind-the-wall involvement, then you should find your way into a bunch of race cars over the next few years. You won't get paid to drive, but you'll appreciate the chances to develop your craft. If you're 97% obsessed with learning how to be fast without wrecking stuff, then you might one day find yourself beating the current crop of karting brats. That day will be far off. You will not be famous like Roberto Moreno, but fame sucks anyway, I'm sure.

Hang around race cars, learn about them, make yourself useful to the people who own them. Opportunities for seat time will come up. They will be few and far between, but that'll afford you the chance to extract a lot of lessons on them. Keep notes. In the long run, you'll also have a wider repertoire than those same karting brats: as their full-season budgets allowed them plenty of specialized seat time, you'll have driven every badly setup or broken piece of car that you could get your hands on. Eventually it'll pay off in the final leg of an endurance race, or in changing conditions. (First stint's usually reserved for the paying driver...)

If you can do a mechanic's racing series at a school, then save up a couple grand and do it. Vees and school series' cost just under $15 grand. I never had that much.

Anyway, as Smith says, don't go to a racing school until you've mastered the heel-toe. If you have a road car, trade it in for something light, with double-digit horsepower and a stickshift. Learn to love loose conditions, and don't bother owning any single item weighing over 2,400 pounds. Trust me on that one.

Good luck.

[Scala]

Oh yeah, and start with the club karting. Do lots of that before you go to racing school. Preferably outdoor 4-stroke. Arrive-and-drive series' can be cheaper, and the 'every piece of car' principle often applies.

[MadCat360]

If you can do a mechanic's racing series at a school, then save up a couple grand and do it. Vees and school series' cost just under $15 grand. I never had that much.

Anyway, as Smith says, don't go to a racing school until you've mastered the heel-toe. If you have a road car, trade it in for something light, with double-digit horsepower and a stickshift. Learn to love loose conditions, and don't bother owning any single item weighing over 2,400 pounds. Trust me on that one.

"Mechanic's racing series"? What's that?

The cheapest school series I've found is the Barber series. It's about 35 grand for the regional, 45 for the national. But they doll out some major sponsorship and scholarship money. If you win the national, you get 350k to race Star Mazda. But the cool thing is if you want to only do say 4 out of the 12 races that's okay by them. A race weekend costs about 3k I think. That series might be within my reach if I land a good job and save up for 2010.

I also looked at the Formula Russell series but that is way out of my potential budget; they want 85 grand for a season of 8 races. But they use Formula 3 cars instead of the F2000s that barber uses.

I learned heel-and-toe in racing school, actually. Well, a performance driving school. My technique still isn't perfect, but it's passable. I will definitely get a manual for my 2nd car so I can practice, maybe an MR2 or something small like that (my current is a 1986 Dodge Diplomat that I got for a hundred bucks).

Like I said I've also just done my first year in karting in the Russell arrive and drive. I ended up 9th in the championship out of 40 drivers. My instructor told me that if they had a rookie of the year award I would've gotten it, and there were tons of rookies in the class.

Right now my plan is to do the Russell karting series again for 2009 (4k for the season) and do the Barber 3 day school sometime in the summer or late spring. Then I'd do a couple of Barber race weekends throughout the year at Laguna Seca. Then, maybe, just maybe, I'd do the full Barber regional or national season in 2010.

[Brian]

Local legend has it (well, not so much legend as neat, true story) that Jacques Villeneuve did his first racing school at the Bridgestone Academy that used to be at Shannonville and is now at Mosport. They had a version where you worked as a mechanic all summer long and got to do a mechanic's racing school. He was apparently such a lousy mechanic that he spent all summer sweeping the garage floor...

Brian

[Scala]

He also painted the stripes on the garage wall at Shannonville. They're still there.

[Scala]

I did Bridgestone Academy's mechanic series when the school first moved to Mosport's school circuit. I had basically a sedan school, a three-day Bridgestone program and a bunch of F2000 autocrossing under my belt. Finished 3rd against the other mechanics. (Slow learner, I guess.) Though the field may not be as deep, the racing at the front of a mechanic's race is every bit as competitive as in the customer series, and any of the top two guys could have beat Wilkins & co. that year.

Russell has a version of the program as well.

[MadCat360]

I did Bridgestone Academy's mechanic series when the school first moved to Mosport's school circuit. I had basically a sedan school, a three-day Bridgestone program and a bunch of F2000 autocrossing under my belt. Finished 3rd against the other mechanics. (Slow learner, I guess.) Though the field may not be as deep, the racing at the front of a mechanic's race is every bit as competitive as in the customer series, and any of the top two guys could have beat Wilkins & co. that year.

Russell has a version of the program as well.

That's somewhat intriguing, but I don't particularly want to be a mechanic. I mean I wouldn't mind learning things about basic pit work and setting up a car, but I've tried a "fixing things" career before (gunsmithing) and I didn't like it at all. It didn't have any fulfillment for me and I had no passion for it. I suppose it's an option but it's not really what I want to do. As a job other than racing, I'm more likely to do something like trading or something distant from motorsports.

[Ricky Racer]

Since you already have some karting eperience, have you considered the Stars of Karting series? It is my understanding that one of the points of the series is to showcase your talents to team owners looking to bring new drivers up through the ranks. Not knowing all the details though, I wouldn't be surprised to find out the better funded candidates are the ones actually getting the testing. Best of luck.

[azjc]

First you need at least $200,000 US and the attitude that it won't bother you if it all disappears in less than a year...

I remember when $200K could buy you a lot of serious racing... in the late 70's the money man behind the company I worked for lived his dream and found out he wasn't "good enough". He'd been running Formula Atlantic, decided to give F2 a serious try, spent $250K for a year of race & drive (w/ Fred Opert as I recall) in Europe. Didn't qualify for most of the races, came home quite disillusioned and stopped racing. Now the money he could afford (family controlled the Dow Jones) - the disappointment was the hardest. Money doesn't always make it easier.

[Daryl DeArman]

Money doesn't always make it easier.

May not make it possible, but it sure makes it easier

You can be talented and not have the money to showcase it, or ever get enough seat time to become really good.

Ask Hiro how much his money helped. Ask Alex Barron and Richie Hearn how hard it was without huge piles of money behind them.

Patrick Long, Richie Hearn, Buddy Rice and Phil Giebler were some of the most talented karters I have raced with/against...they all made it much farther than I and have done/are doing quite well with their talent and no huge sums of family money behind them. So it can happen. Then you have guys like Harvick and Casey Mears who were also karters in So-Cal in the same era. I don't recall either of them ever finishing ahead of any of those four, much less me to emphasize my point further, and look where they are

No, I'm not bitter. I was short on the talent AND the money. Given the option, I'd wind back the clock and take the money.

Coming up short in the talent column will take you further than coming up short in the money column.

[Ted Idlof]

^^^^^^^^^^
+1 on everything Daryl said. But to take the money thing one more step, there are a few guys like Hiro who would have never gotten anywhere close to pro racing without the money. He knew it too which helped keep him in the show longer than if he hadn't been so humble.

A more current example is Roth, king of the IRL wankers; he quit after they told him they didn't even want him on road courses and some ovals next year. And I had an Indy Lights racer (late 30's club racer with $$$) in rent my car for an SCCA race just to get some Infineon seat time before the Indy Lights came out in August. He was barely faster than me. Later in the season, he admitted in his blog that the Indy league officials told him a few times he could not re-join the race after pitting because it was a good race and they were concerned he'd screw it up if he was out there. Or if they let him out, they gave him strict orders to do a drive thru if the leaders were in his mirrors. That's a short leash.

You know racing is cruel when the toughest thing that a rideless talented kid has to do is watch those guys drive around like they're on a carnival ride.

[MadCat360]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. They've all been very helpful (apart from the sex change ideas).

It pretty much comes down to cash then, I guess.

Once I have the money I could pretty much race anything I want, right?

[MadCat360]

Double post, but I just went to a NASA event today and I ran into a bunch of dudes doing Spec E30 BMWs.

Now I know this is kinda a Formula crowd here, but does anyone have any opinions of that class? It's pretty new but apparently growing quickly, and on the cheaper side of things.

[PBR]

Double post, but I just went to a NASA event today and I ran into a bunch of dudes doing Spec E30 BMWs.

Now I know this is kinda a Formula crowd here, but does anyone have any opinions of that class? It's pretty new but apparently growing quickly, and on the cheaper side of things.

Saw this on the SpecE30 forum, figured I'd throw it out there. Credit goes to Steve D. of course:

IndyJim wrote in another thread:

Jim -

Not sure what info you are seeking, but let me ramble a little bit.

A little background: I did a track day in my street car at Road Atlanta in October 2004. My instructor said, "Well, you've just had your first hit of crack cocaine!!" How prophetic!

Did a couple more track days in November & December. I started thinking that it was stupid to be putting my daily driver at risk on the track.

A friend said "we ought to buy a Spec Miata together and go racing!" Three months later I had gone through Panoz to get my SCCA license and bought an already-built SM. I had read about SM in a lot of car magazines and grew up hearing about SCCA racing. He still hasn't bought a car or tried to get a race license. If we could get a Car and Driver writer to drive a Spec E30 and do an article on NASA racing, maybe SE30 would become a gateway drug alternative to SM.

As I began racing SM, I met and became friends with the NASA Southeast SM director, Jason Holland. I then got a NASA license and started racing with both sanctioning bodies. Having virtually identical rules really helps produce large fields in both. Advantage: Spec Miata.

After about 6 months of track days and races, I realized that if I got my wife interested in driving I could do twice as many track weekends ("Honey, let's leave the kids with my Mom and we can spend some quality time together at Barber....") She fell for it and now is the terror of Peachstate PCA Group 3.

As she started doing more events, I began worrying about having her in an open-top car. I convinced myself to build a new Spec Miata with seat sliders so we could both drive it. I also wanted to build a car that I knew everything about. Super safe cage & bulletproof reliability were my goals. During the cage building it became obvious that a sliding seat would not give me the head room I need (I'm 6'2" and she is 5'4" so a slider is a must).

I had been watching the SE30 races at various NASA events. Ever since terrorizing Athens in my college roommate's '84 318, I have loved the E30 body style. Combined with the sweet sound of a straight 6 (reminds me of my high school buddy Joe's 280Z) it is a much more appealing machine than the Miata to me on a visceral level. But I do think the Miata can be credited with re-igniting the sports car craze.

I think most SE30 guys are BMW fans (fanatics?) who get into racing. I think most SM guys want the most competitive entry-level racing they can find. They don't really dig Miatas, per se, but they are cheap to run and have big fields.

Partially as an experiment to help my friend, Tom Fowler (OPM Autosports), expand his trackside service and race car rental business, I encouraged him to build an E30 for me. His business is about 90% Miatas now and I see SE30 as a way to broaden his base.

The other motivator was to build a car I knew I could fit a slider seat in. All in all, the E30 is probably 10-20% more expensive to build than a Spec Miata. You can get on track for under $10k in either SM or SE30 if you do a lot of work yourself and put in the bare minimum for safety equipment and new parts. A tub-up build is, of course, a lot more. But similar cost either way.

OK. So that's how I got here. After one whole weekend of racing an E30 at nationals, let me share my opinions.

The car is much less of a handful than I thought it would be (in spite of the size/weight disadvantage vs SM). The motor pulls strong and sounds great.

The Miata's suspension is much tighter and more adjustable, but the E30 can be properly corner weighted with spring pads, ballast location, and if you are creative, non-ballast location (a cool suit box, an extra fire bottle here and there, a spare tire filled with air that measures 100% humidity, etc. )

I feel a bit safer in the E30 (larger cabin, kick-a$$ 1.75" cage tubing, bigger windows to exit). But I feel like I can throw the Miata around easier to avoid trouble.

The SE30 championship race (18 cars?) had MUCH more contact than the +/-60 car "spec piñata" championship race. But the qualifying races were cleaner in the E30 than SM where there was one significant first-lap crash.

The SE30 guys seem to have about the same level of camaraderie as the SM guys. Post-race cookouts were happening for both groups.

SM is farther along the curve of people exploiting grey areas in the rules, so more loopholes have been closed. SE30 would be well served to take some pages from them. Want to rule out $40/gallon race gas? It's easier now than later. Maximum HP & torque rule? Sounds like a good idea as a backstop for the specific engine modification rules. But right now I don't think anyone at nationals had a to-the-limit "pro" motor in SE30. I think 80% of the Miata field did.

SM has been dogged by parity concerns between the different body style & engine combinations in the 1990 to 2005 models eligible for the class. The upside is there are plenty of donors. Downside is you get some "car of the year" builders who wait to see the rule changes, then build a new car each winter. SE30 is effectively a 325is-only class, but it would eliminate the C.O.T.Y. possibility if you sunset the 318's, convertibles, etc.

SM has a significant advantage in the manufacturer support they get from Mazda. Mazdaspeed sells parts at a huge discount to racers. BMW parts are tougher to find and more expensive.

My plans are to keep racing both cars. I don't know how much I will do it on the same weekend. I don't think it helped me at nationals to switch back and forth. Fifteen minute sessions didn't give me enough time to adjust my marks, driving lines, etc.

If the SE30 crowd could get traction with SCCA to have identical rules that would allow the cars to be competitive, that would provide a huge shot in the arm for the class. I don't know the politics, but I know there are too damn many classes in both sanctioning bodies. If you have a class that can't field 5 cars for the national championship, kill it. Sorry. Rant over.

Anyway, thank you guys for the warm welcome and I look forward to meeting more of you at a track soon!

Steve D.

[eboucher]

I WISH I could disagree with anything that's been said here, but having been that same 18 year-old many moons ago with all of the drive and ambition in the world, I'll tell you from first hand experience that talent is tertiary to 1) boat loads of money, and 2) the ability to sell yourself. I had the talent, winning LOTS of races in Skip Barber's Formula Ford West Coast championship, SCCA Spec Racer, and karts. I even made it to the Skippy runoffs in Sebring to battle it out with 9 other young and very hungry drivers. I simply assumed that companies would at that point want to shower me with money so I could get their brand on TV. That's just not how it works in the real world. Most of the sponsorships you see on the side of cars, especially in the amateur ranks, are because the driver's Dad owns the company, the driver owns the company, or it's really not a sponsorship in the traditional sense of the word at all.

You're also facing an uphill battle given the state of our economy. You'll find that there are probably many more companies cutting their marketing efforts than starting up new sponsorships with young, unknown drivers.

What I WILL tell you is to FINISH YOUR SCHOOLINGl. Get a college degree even if you're racing at the same time. If I hadn't stuck with school I wouldn't be making a living today and thinking about getting back into racing FOR FUN with SCCA and/or NASA. The majority of guys racing at the top rungs of sports car racing in this country (ALMS, Grand-AM, etc.) are smart dudes who got engineering degrees, started their own companies, and bought themselves a race team! There are very few professional drivers in these classes, meaning guys that make a living just from racing. And even for the majority of the ones that do manage to eke out a living, they're living hand to mouth and at times wondering how they'll afford the plane ticket out to the next race (I also tought at Skip Barber for a short time and know several of these guys). Now having said that, they're loving what they're doing and many of them would live in a cardboard box in order to race, but most of them aren't making millions and driving around in Ferraris and Lambos.

As far as what to race, something you should take a look at is Spec Miata. The cars are relatively inexpensive (remember, everything in racing is relative) and the competition is good, so if you can win in the class you've got a shot at moving forward. A guy I raced against in Skippy, Brad Rampelberg, got an education and a job and started racing for fun a few years ago in SM in the San Francisco region. He won the SCCA runnoffs in Spec Miata in Topeka last year, which helped get him a ride in the MX-5 Pro Cup this year where he ended up sixth in the championship, winning some races and making a name for himself along the way. He's shown that you don't need to be 18 to make it which is good news for those of us that aren't in our twenties anymore!

The bottom line MadCat is that it's NOT easy to make it as a pro. I don't mean to discourage you, but having been there and tried desperately myself to make it, I know how hard it is. You've got literally thousands of guys (and some gals) every year who are as good or better than you and want the same thing, and many of them have family money helping them up the ladder. Make sure you've got a backup plan, ie. school, and get out there and start knocking on doors! Best of luck.