McLaren O-U-T

[andyllc]

I really dont think they should have been punished. I feel they were able to show that no info had been put into their car, I think that is a major point. Also, how is it any different from you guys asking other teams questions about set up? Or how about when Coello put 100 wings on his car so everyone wanted to go copy that because he was fast, where is your $100 million fine? Also, do you realize that every team in F1 has photographers on staff to do nothing but take pictures of other cars so the teams can study them and copy them? Every team, all the time.

[Camadella]

Obviously our fine structure in F2000 needs to be revamped to keep up with current numbers of other series.

Umm, yeah, that's a good idea. You should of thought of that sooner!

Actually, I think it's OK - you can just proportion the fine based on the difference between the cost of an F2000 car and an F1 car.

As an example:

F1: $1M fine
F2000: 1 tootsie roll

F1: $100M fine
F2000: 1 keg of Guinness

Sounds like it could work OK.

[Cole Morgan]

I really dont think they should have been punished. I feel they were able to show that no info had been put into their car, I think that is a major point. Also, how is it any different from you guys asking other teams questions about set up? Or how about when Coello put 100 wings on his car so everyone wanted to go copy that because he was fast, where is your $100 million fine? Also, do you realize that every team in F1 has photographers on staff to do nothing but take pictures of other cars so the teams can study them and copy them? Every team, all the time.

Andy,
I don't think they should go unpunished at all. Read the e-mail's back and forth, they speal of weight dritbution tyre gases and brake adujustment. That was perhaps the saddest display of e-mail communication ever. The fact that they have a competitive F1 team suprises me. They must really suck at cheating or have some terrible lawyers. Too bad open wheel is dead, or this might get more that 25 seconds on ESPN. Here I come closed wheel.

[Allen_W]

Notice how Freddie is starting to get the upper hand now that he ain't sharing his setup info with "Ham Hocks" anymore?

"His" setup info? I think--reading the emails between de la Rosa and Alonso--that it was Ferrari's setup info he'd been using and sharing . . .

[Justin Daniels]

I'm curious - Did the World Motorsport Council decide that Mercedes McLaren's performance during 2007 races actually benefited from the Ferrari info?

If yes, it seems odd that Hamilton and Alonso could continue unimpeded in the quest for the 2007 driver's championship.

Agreed.
Assuming that McLaren's use of Ferrari's technical information resulted in a competitive edge over Ferrari, I don't feel that the driver's championship should go untouched. Not saying that the drivers themselves deserve to be punished (mainly Hamilton, Alonso deserves whatever he gets), but if the team was getting information that helped them in any way in an illicit manner, then should it not stand to reason that the team shouldn't reap ANY benefit?

However I do also agree that corporate espionage is commonplace these days; so maybe stripping of constructor and driver points (at least the ones earned as a result of this whole debacle, assuming the emails have date stamps) and waiving the fine would be more appropriate.

Just my 2 yen.

[Allen_W]

Alonso deserves whatever he gets

Disclaimer: long-time McLaren supporter . . .

Agree. In this regard, a statement from Max Mosley is, uh, self-serving to say the least. Mosley gave his full support to Alonso's position in the whole matter, saying "He was the only one on his team who did the right thing. With Alonso's emails we obtained certainty." It seems that Mosley read those emails for the way they'd help his case against McLaren--not what they said about the petulant Spanish driver. In the strange world of Formula 1, Hamilton, who apparently received no emails, behaved worse than Alonso who was soliciting, directly receiving, and using stolen information--and then trying to blackmail his team with the guilty emails. The guys who run F1 are really bottom feeders. Mosley defends Alonso because his participation in the spying and use of the pilfered data helped convict McLaren. He judges right and wrong by how useful someone is to what he wants as the outcome. I would think Alonso is very lucky not to have lost his own points, for stealing data, and probably would have were F1 not run by an oligarchy according to its own arcane rules and procedures.

One other thought is that, yes, everyone "steals" information. But there is a vast difference between photographing visible elements on cars run in public and stealing private technical dossiers. I think Coughlan, Stepney, Alonso, and de la Rosa crossed a divide. I worry, too, about Dennis. A press report has Alonso telling Dennis that, if not made the team's primo driver, he'd take "that"--pointing to his laptop--to the FIA. Dennis must have known what was on "that" for such a threat to have any meaning. And, if this is true, he should have taken action against Alonso at least when he learned of it.

My two pesos.

[Daryl DeArman]

Here I come closed wheel.

No cheating there

Fines are always consitant too!

[Daryl DeArman]

Knowing the pit strategies/fuel loads is what rubs me the wrong way. I used to be an Alonso fan....the fact that he sung like a canary now doesn't redeem himself because if everything would have stayed status-quo within McClaren and Spepneygate never surfaced I doubt we would have ever known.

[Thomas Copeland]

As we bring the curtain down on another episode of Law and DisOrder, FIA: SPECIAL RAT PATROL EDITION

As Joe Friday used to say, "Just the facts ma'am" --

McLaren (i.e. Ron Dennis) in what has to be one of the grosses and most blatant CYA manuvers ever attempted goes to the FIA to rat themselves out in the hopes that they can cut Freddie off at the pass, steal his thunder and perhaps cut a deal. Didn't work.

Hammy Hamhocks, aides and abetts the ratting out of McLaren by taking witness stand in Paris (please don't take me championship chance away...pleeeease!!!!!). Sobs go unanswered as FIA not impressed with Hammy giving Freddie the reach around.

Some lucky rat fink copy boy in England will now be made honorary Ferrari member for life. Might even now get his own Ferrari road car as his rat reward. Lucky rat boy.

Meanwhile, Freddie, now firmly taking over the mantle from Lauda as King Rat, is left in witness protection and insulated by a squad of FIA lawyers watching McLaren's every move to see they don't begin rat extermination.

Stay tuned to next weeks exciting conclusion:

"Cuz Freddie's Dead"

[Roger Eade]

The keg could lead to a rehearing
Roger

Umm, yeah, that's a good idea. You should of thought of that sooner!

Actually, I think it's OK - you can just proportion the fine based on the difference between the cost of an F2000 car and an F1 car.

As an example:

F1: $1M fine
F2000: 1 tootsie roll

F1: $100M fine
F2000: 1 keg of Guinness

Sounds like it could work OK.

[Dave Harmison]

Enough blather along what's fair.

Anybody got any inside info on what they are really doing?

Even us lowly club racers use nitrogen in our tires. What kind of guesses for what F and M are doing on tire gases? Something that expands differently so they can bleed off the excess and maintain more consistant pressures?

They redacted all the interesting stuff out of the 14 page detailed reprot.

What kind of brake game are they playing? A few years ago it was against the rules to have any brake bias adjustment at all, even the kind us club racers have. Are they now allowed to do speed dependant? Linked to the steering for turn-in assist? Brake assisted traction control?

There are enough engineers here. Let's start making guesses. And of course if anyone really knows...

[Tim FF19]

Wait until they find out Fred is using sulphur hexafloride in his tyres. I'll bet he told Ham they are using acetylene.....

[John Nesbitt]

From planet-f1.com:

Jean Todt has spoken for the first time since Thursday's Stepneygate ruling, saying Ferrari are "unhappy" with the "soft penalty."

[Tim FF19]

Overheard in the Spa pitlane, Ron D. speaking with Mike Mosley "100M? No problem, thats what we spent on breakfast last year."

[Matt M.]

I'd like a spin in whatever simulator they have.......

[Jonathan Hirst]

100 mil? I thought that was a large fine until I saw an EU court uphold a $613 million fine against Microsoft...

[Matt M.]

Its still a bit odd though...... I'm not buying the Ron Dennis whistle blower story.... The Itialian police have Stepneys phone records. They have all the text messages....I'm betting in there is a reference to DelaRosa or Fast Freddie. Hence the FIA demanding everything from the drivers..... It didn't come from Ron. no way.

This Alonso "made the demand to be number one" was concocted by somebody at autosport...... British team - british "wonder boy" driver. Make the spaniard the bad guy.... I'm tired of this wonder boy thing with the british.... Sutil would do the same thing in that car.

I'm a Kimi fan - so I hope they implode........ Either that or Alonso wins another. Anybody but the other two guys.....

[Keith Carter]

Alonso's lawyers at work for getting him out of the McLaren contract. It really doesn't come as a surprise. Rumor has it that he'll be back at Renault.

[Frank C]

Max Mosley's comments on Jackie Stewart indicate he is a little upset. They are amazing. Stewart even drove a March.
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...754288,00.html

- Frank C

[racer27]

WOW -- He sure did not hold anyting back...