GCR question - taking a start or starts away

[pwd911s]

I'm looking for a clear understanding from the SCCA about the guidlines and procedures the SCCA officials use (GCR) when determining when to take a start or starts away from a competitor.

I can not find any reference to this in the GCR.

Thank you in advance.

Paul

[Dave Gomberg]

Paul:

You need to be more clear about what you are asking. I'm guessing you are unhappy about something that happened to you (or someone you know). Please be specific (you don't have to name names or even the track/event where this happened).

Dave

[EYERACE]

rules here in the southeast are found 3 different places.....just like the scca is organized
1. nationally....as in > in the GCR www.SCCA.com
2. divisionally ......at the SouthEastern Divisional website www.SeDivracing.org
3. in the supps for a specific event ...sort of like regional, if you'll allow the analogy

and then there's the uncharted fourth.....the chief steward's mind during the event

you can find something similar in your part of the world probably

[D.T. Benner]

The penalty for passing under a Yellow is being put back to a position that makes you last in Your Class? I see that from the Stewards a lot.-Well not ME personally!

[Larry]

There are numerous possible penalties for passing under yellow. Moved to last in class is just one option. Most stewards think a one-position penalty is insufficient, because it just puts you back where you were before the PUY, but there are many alternatives available.

Larry Oliver

[RussMcB]

I'm not sure, but I think Paul is asking, under what circumstances can officials remove credit for starting a race. In other words, take away the fact that you participated in a race.

When I first read it, I thought it was referring to penalties for jumping a green flag start.

Paul, can you tell us a little more about why you're asking?

[TimW]

I believe this is in reference to a driver who lost all his points that were accrued to the point where the stewards took action. Removing those and then fulfilling the probation period does not leave for enough events to still make 4 to qualify. I suspect the question is if the points for the previous starts were removed, are the starts removed as well.

[Dave Gomberg]

I believe this is in reference to a driver who lost all his points that were accrued to the point where the stewards took action. Removing those and then fulfilling the probation period does not leave for enough events to still make 4 to qualify. I suspect the question is if the points for the previous starts were removed, are the starts removed as well.

If that is the original poster's question, then the short answer is that the starts/finishes (for license retention) are still valid. The points removed are either for a series (e.g., MARRS, SARRC, NERC) for a Regional race, or they are for a Divisional Championship (and for Runoffs qualification) for a National race. For races successfully completed during a probation period, both points and starts count (where "successfully completed" means that the Chief Steward signs off the probation letter as having met the terms of the probation).

Dave

[pwd911s]

I believe this is in reference to a driver who lost all his points that were accrued to the point where the stewards took action. Removing those and then fulfilling the probation period does not leave for enough events to still make 4 to qualify. I suspect the question is if the points for the previous starts were removed, are the starts removed as well.

Yes indeed you are correct. We had early season races that were started and finished without incident. Then there were two weekends where we were assessed penalties. I understand that points can be taken away, positions can be taken away and finishes can be taken away. But what about the legitimate starts of a race where no incident had taken place?

For example, to be invited to the run-offs you need 4 starts. If an incident results in you having a races taken from you, I would assume that this would mean the Start and Finish as well. I also understand that Points accrued can be removed, but having past race starts removed were no incident occurred is confusing.

We just found out that our early season out of region, national race start was taken away from us. Without any National races left to gain back this taken start, we will not met the 4 race requirment. To date we have not recieved any notice outlining this rulling or action. We found out about the removal of our early start after returning from the last Topeka National. Not much of a notice.

I am trying to understand (and play by) the rules. I have been diligent and read through the GCR and am trying without luck to find clarification.

Where is the common sense in taking past starts. If an angery Offical wanted, could her or she take past starts, finishes, wins from years gone by and how far back? I wouldnt think so.

Thanks again
Paul

[Dave Gomberg]

You need to read GCR 7, specifically 7.2.J. (Also, see 7.4.A.7and 7.4.C.) As I said above, you have not been penalized by loss of starts/finishes for licensing purposes. Since this concerns National points, your entire season's worth of points has been removed. And, yes, that means that at this time you cannot run enough events to (re)qualify for this year's Runoffs.

Dave

[TimW]

Isn't there another national at Gingerman this weekend? Put some short gears in and go!

[pwd911s]

You need to read GCR 7, specifically 7.2.J. (Also, see 7.4.A.7and 7.4.C.) As I said above, you have not been penalized by loss of starts/finishes for licensing purposes. Since this concerns National points, your entire season's worth of points has been removed. And, yes, that means that at this time you cannot run enough events to (re)qualify for this year's Runoffs.

Dave

Dave
Thank you for this information, I reviewed/read each of the sections you have indicated as well as a reread of section 7.
7.2.J accrued points, understood
7.4.A automatic penalties, understood
7.4.C muliple penalties, understood

Where in any of this (GCR) are STARTS outlined? And how and where STARTS can be taken away? And under what guidlines?

I appriciate your input.

Paul

[Charles Warner]

You keep saying your STARTS have been taken away and Dave is pointing out that there is no mechanism in the GCR to do this. If you feel your STARTS have been somehow removed from your record then contact the Club. I'd start with the Licensing folks and ask them what they show for you.

[TimW]

The pointskeeper in the division has indeed removed the starts as well as the points from the standings for those races.

[Jim Christian]

Paul,
My advice would be to contact your Executive Steward, and have him answer your questions.
Jim Christian
Director SCCA Area 8

[pwd911s]

Jim, Tim, Charles and Dave

Thank you for your help here, Dave and Charles hit the issue on the head. "there is no mechanism in the GCR to do this". When I find out from Topeka I'll post or email each of you our findings.

If we are allowed to keep our STARTS, we would have the needed STARTS to be invited to the Run-Offs,and we will be there, provided of course that we are invited to the Dance.

Kind Regards
Paul