mating trans to motor

[oh2winindy]

Help!!!!!


I have got flywheel and clutch assembly mounted to motor, and trying mate trans to engine... will not go flush against the motor. I aligned the clutch with one of those 2$ clutch alignment tools and still cant get it to go on. is this because of the pressure plate? Do I have to put the bolts into the trany to the engine and tighten to get the pressure plate to compress???

I have no hair left as I have pulled it all out.

Thanks in advance for any help

[RussMcB]

Jamie, we've all been there. You have my sympathy.

It's probably the splines in the trans shaft not matching the splines in the clutch plate. Try turning both axles to try and rotate the trans shaft.

Sometimes if you rock the trans relative to the engine, you can see the pivot point and that may provide a clue about the location of the obstruction.

Look at the gap between the engine and trans on both sides and top & bottom. That may tell you if you're going in at an angle (i.e., trans tail too high or low).

I'd be most suspect that you tightened the clutch plate with the disk just slightly out of center. That would cause the trans shaft nose to not be able to go into the crankshaft pilot bearing.

I'm not an ace mechanic and I've never mated a trans to a Pinto motor before, but I have stayed at a Holidy Inn.

Good luck.

[Keith Carter]

What Russ said! It helps if the tires are on the rear end to wiggle both in the same direction.

You have to make sure that the bellhousing and rest of the car are on exactly the same level. Holding the engine/rest of car up with the engine hoist and then shimming up the rear end (with tires) with plastic tiles to get them at the same height. We've had the engine and rear end go together in a few seconds and we've also had it take over an hour. We were lucky to crack the car and get it back together at the Sprints this year on GRASS! No, we weren't ON GRASS, but the car in two parts were in the paddock on grass and we still somehow got the car back together. I think at that point we got the splines lined up and then used the bolts to pull the car together.

[oh2winindy]

Thanks everyone... will let you know when it goes in.... should be sometime next... year

[BHerscher]

Yeah, do what the others said. But also be patient, don't over work the parts, and never tighten the assemblies with the bolts until the two have slid together with the alighning pins in their respective recepticals.

[oh2winindy]

ok,

I feel as though the splines are in, but the trans is still not going all the way against the motor???? Do i have to compress the pressure plate now by tightening the bolts? I am on the verge of a mental breakdown

[RussMcB]

Do i have to compress the pressure plate now by tightening the bolts?

No. Once you tightened the pressure plate (hopefully with the disk centered), you are done with that part. The clutch fingers will not be pressed in until you get it all back together and push in the clutch pedal. Your clutch is engaged.

Tell us how much gap you have. Is it even all around?

Tell us how you have the engine supported (on jack stands?), and the trans, also (floor jack? Cherry picker?).

I prefer to have the engine and chassis "fixed" in place, while the trans is hanging from a cherry picker. I also really like the adapter thingy that let you crank a handle to get the angle right.

When you rock the trans, where does it look like it is pivoting? For instance, if you see the gap changing a lot on one side but not the other, that can help you tell where it's hitting/binding. Do the same top to bottom.

If you are tempted to pull them together by tightening bolts, only do so with VERY light tightening, and only to see if that gets you past a minor interferance. If it doesn't go together with VERY easy tightening, then you are sure to damage something.

[RussMcB]

You say you think the splines are not engaging. Try backing off enough so the trans input shaft is not engaged in the disk. Try to see if you can spin the input shaft. I think the trans will need to be in a gear (first or reverse) and you'll need to spin both axles (tires). Then, start mating the trans to the engine, continuing to spin the trans input shaft slowly, and see if you can tell if/when the splines touch.

If you can pull the trans completely out of the way, look very hard at the clutch disk in relation to the pilot bearing hole in the crank. Also, count splines and take a few measurements to make sure you weren't given the wrong parts. I assume the trans and engine have already been together. If not, double check stuff. Look at alignment dowels.

[Westroc #19]

If you are close to getting the chassis dowels to engage the trans, make sure they are lined up perfectly. If you notice that one or two are not lined up, you may have to manipulate the chassis a little here and there. If you have the chassis sitting on the lower bars on a stand of some sort under the engine, the weight of the car will force the bottom bars up and prevent you from lining up the dowels. Keep at it and stay cool. We've fought with this job everytime we have done it.

[Phil Picard]

Jamie, make sure the pilot bearing isnt screwed up

[Purple Frog]

Warning! warning!

As good an idea as it seems...
If you try to 'draw' it together using the bolts from the bellhousing to the block, you WILL muck it up bad.

If you have already tried to draw it in with the bolts, you must take it apart. Take the clutch pressure plate off and inspect the disk. It's easy to bend in the center section of the disc. It will then break about three shifts later. Just about turn 3.

It's a sad 6 year old story why I know this.

OBTW, for Reynards I always bolt the engine to the bellhousing first, then roll the whole deal into the chassis, much easier.

[Mike Bingham]

Our Reynad chassis was wrecked and still " strung" ..will not easily bolt to trans housing. make sure engine centerline and trans centerline are same if at all possible..
take yer time, go slow, don't draw down the bolts too much...check to see if chassis dowels are hung up on trans housing...
hang in there..it does get easier
mike

[racer27]

First make sure you have the right parts... The clutch cover must be the same hieght installed as the old one.

Second make sure you have correct clutch disk. Most FC take a 23 tooth 1". Our Citation is an anomolliy and it takes a FF sized 20 X 7/8"

We've had issues with both being wrong.

Third, make sure clutch disc is installed correctly, with raised part towards the Tranny.

Suggestions...

- You could rock the wheels, but other option is to turn the motor (In direction of rotation only). We find that easier. Or take the cover off tranny and rotate from there.

- If you still use bolts, consider replacing with a couple long studs. This wasy alignmnet is never an issue again.

- For pulling/mating it, use a ratching car tie down.

- We use panio dolly under car and add shims as needed to get proper hieght.

- If you've already used bolts to pull it tight, break it apart and re-inspect the fragile clutch disc.

[Charles Warner]

13 posts and no one has mentioned the fit of the input shaft to the pilot bearing. (Phil alluded to it.) Was a new pilot bearing installed? Is it the proper size? Has it been LIGHTLY lubed? If it has been packed with grease then hydraulics can keep the input shaft from seating. To spin the input shaft, instead of trying to rotate both rear wheels together (by yourself) while pushing the gearbox forward at an awkward angle, just take the rear cover off the box and use wrench. Much easier to reach and provides for finer movement

Best tool for this is a hydraulic lift table available from Harbor Freight for less than $100. 600# capacity, locks at any height, extremely maneuverable. Invaluable when installing engines to chassis or gearboxes to engines.

[Adair]

You might also check the clutch throw-out bearing assembly. If it is in the extended position and the clutch line was capped when the engine was removed, the cap will not allow fluid flow thus the bearing can't be pushed back into its retracted position. So now the bearing is touching the clutch spring before the housing and engine can mate fully.

Kind of annoying to know a little red plastic cap can cause such headaches.

[Brian]

You can usually tell if it's the spline or the pilot bearing by how close you can get the gearbox to the engine before it hangs up. The splines start to engage about 1" or more before the two mate up. The pilot bearing needs to engage about 1/2" before they mate up. The splines are easy to get engaged, it's almost always the pilot bearing not lining up.

If you get to 1/2", you probably have the dreaded $2 tool didn't align it well enough problem, and you will probably have success by shaking the thing like a dog with a bone. You need to shift the clutch plate a tiny bit, or get the input shaft to poke through it on a bit of an angle so that the end can get in the hole...

If it's the throw out bearing or all those other ideas (all good, but some a little obscure) then you need to take it all apart and look at it to find out where you went wrong.

Never never never pull the two together with greater force than you can exert with your hands.

Brian

[Westroc #19]

We also file a leed on the clutch disc splines. Takes a few minutes but it seems to help us.

[Charles Warner]

Brian brings up a good point that leads to my asking whether you checked to see if the snout on the alignment tool is the proper diameter. Just because the splines are right for the clutch doesn't mean the snout is properly sized. FF, FC, FA all may use different pilot bearings. Bakelite? Roller? Modified? These tools are less than $10 from Pegasus. Get the right one or even a bigger one and turn it down to fit perfectly.

[oh2winindy]

I didn't make fire.... but...


I MADE TRANSMISSION FIT INTO CLUTCH AND MATE UP AGAINST MOTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We finally did it (now both Lynne and I have no hair after pulling it all out)

Thank you guys so much for all the help and advice!!!!!!!!!!!

$50.00 donation on its way to apexspeed for all the help I have recieved over the 3 years I have been a member (should have done it alot sooner, but got to watch the shoestring budget )

Lessons Learned:

1) Take your time and finesse it into place
2) 2 sets of hands are so much easier than one, even if the other set has nice nails
3) Don't force it (luckily didnt break new clutch plate)
4) Wear a hat to keep from being able to pull out hair at frustration
5) $2.00 clutch alignment tool is worth about a nickle
6) Patience is a virtue
7) I am lacking in number 6
8) As always, you guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brian]

something I've done on production cars (never saw the need to do this with a Hewland, but who knows) is install temporary studs in two of the bolt holes to guide the engine/gearbox into place. Helps a ton when you are trying to get a Chevy gearbox to mate up with the back of a V8 under your pickup truck while lying on your back in your driveway...

Brian