Interpretation of the Seat Belt Rule

[R John Lye]

Hi all,

I'd like some help with the interpretation of
the seat belt rules. I discovered that my seat
belts needed to be replaced, so I decided to get
some FIA approved belts with the 5 year lifespan.
The only FIA belts that the local shop carries are
OMP, but they didn't have the Formula car belts
in stock, so I got them to order me a set. All
the belts in the set are labeled as meeting
"FIA D-199.T/98 and FIA D-195.T/98" which satisfies
GCR 20.8 (page 174) which implies that all belts
that meet this standard are acceptable. However,
these belts have a 2 inch lap belt, not a 3 inch
which violates GCR 20.2 (page 172). So, my
question is - which of these standards applies
and should I keep these belts or return them?
I'd really like to hear from some tech inspectors
on this, since you're the folks who will be doing
the enforcement. Thanks.

Thanks for your help,
John

[Wooly]

I went through this with the tech inspectors on the shoulder harness's, hans type 2" to 3", before the rule change's, that was very grey at the time. But the lap belt is specific and it needs to be 3", return the belts.

Wooly

[R John Lye]

Thanks Wooly, that's what I thought, but wanted
to be sure - I guess its time to go fight with
the store and return the belts this afternoon
(and hope that they'll refund my money).

Thanks,
John

[R John Lye]

OK, here's an update on my situation (comments
welcome). I called the salesman I've been dealing
with, and he called OMP for me. They claim that
the belts *ARE* SCCA-legal, and that they have not
had any problems with any other regions (of course,
they didn't say how many sets they've shipped).
So, I called the Chief of Tech for our region, who,
at first, said "yes, you'll need a 3 inch lap belt"
but then said, "OK, according to GCR section 20.8,
if they meet FIA D-199.T/98 and are labelled as
such, they should be legal - bolt them in, and come
on out." Of course, if I bolt them in and use
them, they are not returnable and I'm out the cost
of the belts. On the other hand, if the Chief of
Tech says that they are OK, who am I to argue?

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
John

[Shep]

Funny thing is, the 2" belt could be the superior configuration. Per the HMS Motorsport website, a vendor who works very closely with Shroth belts, this is what they have to say...

The Benefits of 2 inch lap belts
The 2" lap belt is a superior solution with significant test data that shows lower loads on the sub straps (meaning the lap belt is working better), and significantly less bruising in the pelvic region as the belt is riding fully over the hard part of the pelvis and not riding over the top edge of the bone. The belts can generally be tightened as much as 1 or 2 inches tighter and are at the same time more comfortable and easier to adjust as they are not as likely to get bound up in the small holes in the sides of the seats. There is no difference in the strength or elongation of the 2" belts over the 3" belts.

[JHaydon]

If I were in your shoes, I would at least try to get something in writing from your Tech Chief stating that your harness is legal before installing it.
My preference would be to replace the harness, because I guarantee you that at some point in the future, no matter WHAT paperwork you have, someone will side with GCR 20.2 and will not let you run. And when that happens, if it happens in the wrong region, that tech inspector may try to go after your Tech Chief. It won't be a pretty scene.

[R John Lye]

Well, I just called the National Office, and they
are siding with 20.8 - that is, the 2 inch belt is
legal, as long as it is FIA certified and labelled.
He has agreed to send me a letter stating this
interpretation. His explanation was that the FIA
belts are made of different material than the SFI
rated belts, and therefore the FIA 2 inch lap belt
is acceptable.

*New information*

I just received another call from the National
Office. Apparently there is a motion before the
Comp Board to allow FIA 2 inch lap belts, but the
issue has not been voted on yet. So, while they
may be legal soon, they are not currently legal.
So, I'm back to fighting with the store to get
my money back.

Thanks for all your help everyone,
John

[size="1"][ June 03, 2004, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: R John Lye ][/size]

[JHaydon]

Originally posted by R John Lye:
Well, I just called the National Office, ... His explanation was that the FIA
belts are made of different material than the SFI
rated belts,

Ouch. Should anyone point out that many FIA belts also carry SFI tags, because in most cases, they ARE the same material? Never mind, I won't argue.

[Greg Mercurio]

John: Don't hold your breath on the 2" lap belt question. I'm thinkin' that the SFI will weigh in on the issue and they aren't likely to vote themselves out of sales.

On the safety side, you should try to get the widest lap belt possible, the wider the belt the more distributed the load across the midsection and lower likelyhood of internal damage. 2" belts may look cool, but in an impact, I'd rather have a WIDE belt. Think spike heels vs. snowshoes.

[D.T. Benner]

Huuummm...I've never seen a woman who looked better in snowshoes than... Oh never mind!

[Garey Guzman]

Hopefully you can get your money back. If they haven't been installed, they should want you as a customer enough to allow you to return them.

There are supporters of this site that sell Willans belts. They are the only ones I've ever used (except for SCCA school). They are comfortable and fit well. They were also recommended to me by several folks with MANY years of racing experience who have tried may other brands.

[Beartrax]

Huuummm...I've never seen a woman who looked better in snowshoes than... Oh never mind!

D.T. - My thoughts exactly, but I'd rather have a snowshoe pressing on my midsection during rapid deceleration.

[Bill Kincaid]

Just a quick comment on Willans- I switched to them this year after always using Simpsons. Pro: they stay adjusted better and the sub strap design is undoubtedly safer. Con: they are a lot more trouble to put on by yourself, due to the way the sub straps loop through the waist belts. Trying to get it all together and hook the D ring for the arm restraints is a trying exercise.

[Garey Guzman]

Bill,
As someone else who occasionally has to belt up alone, I discovered something that an S2 friend was doing. After sitting in the car, he looped sub strap through the arm restraint loop WITHOUT HIS ARMS IN THE RESTRAINTS, then put the sub strap through the D-ring, attached the shoulder belts and when he was all done, he slipped his arms into the arm restraints.

[R John Lye]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I was
able to get the local shop to refund my money,
and I have ordered a set of Willans belts from
one of the supporters of this website, so all's
well that ends well.

Since I, also, often race without crew, I use arm
restraints with a clip at the arm end, and the
D-ring at the belt end. I attach the tethers to
the belts, tighten everything down, then snap the
tethers to the loops around my arms. As I recall,
I got these arm restraints from Racer Wholesale.

Thanks everyone,
John