Re-adding the Rotary engine to FA

[reidhazelton]

A few years ago the Rotary engine was dropped from FA. I'm not sure why, other than lack of participation - which doesn't make much sense. If that was the reason, what's it hurt to leave it in as it had been for 30 years? I'd like to get the group's vibe on adding the engine back in as it was. Pros? Cons?

As I see it, in a time where SCCA has been bleeding entries for decades, making it harder, more expensive, or in this case, impossible for competitors to show up doesn't seem like a path to success. S2, FM, Ford powered Fords...all have left for other places to race. The healthiest classes are spec classes (SM, SRF) and those where SCCA has managed to make the old and new play together (EP, FP). FA isn't a spec, so the proven option is making the old and new cars work with each other, not eliminating them from the rule book.

Thoughts?

[Teuobk]

Don't the PFMs run rotaries, and aren't they still classed in FA?

Jeff

[reidhazelton]

Don't the PFMs run rotaries, and aren't they still classed in FA?

Jeff

Yup. But, those are a spec line car. So I guess it's different?

The previous rules were based of the GT rules for the 12A and 13B rotaries. The PFM runs the Renisis from the Rx8 which is pretty maxed out as is because of the exhaust ports. 12A parts are almost unobtainable, but 13B stuff is still widely available.

[Rick Kirchner]

An acquaintance of mine from New Mexico used to run one of the 13B Swift conversions, I believe there were two of those built when the engine was being considered. Very well done, too bad I can in no way fit in a DB-4 (probably a good thing for my wallet).

I think his screen name was DB4Tim maybe? Cancer survivor, haven't seen him or the car in many years, hope he's still with us.

[Phil Creighton]

We converted the ex Formula Cars East to a Loyning bodied CSR and it got sold to John Zuccarelli. Seriously damaged at Daytona but no idea where it went after Johns death a couple of years ago or if it was even rebuilt. I think there were three DB4 kits done back then

An acquaintance of mine from New Mexico used to run one of the 13B Swift conversions, I believe there were two of those built when the engine was being considered. Very well done, too bad I can in no way fit in a DB-4 (probably a good thing for my wallet).

I think his screen name was DB4Tim maybe? Cancer survivor, haven't seen him or the car in many years, hope he's still with us.

[Steve Demeter]

I remember in the past a lot of FA conversions to Mazda. One in particular was either Ben or Al Jr. Beasley that was lightning fast.

[Garey Guzman]

An acquaintance of mine from New Mexico used to run one of the 13B Swift conversions, I believe there were two of those built when the engine was being considered. Very well done, too bad I can in no way fit in a DB-4 (probably a good thing for my wallet).

I think his screen name was DB4Tim maybe? Cancer survivor, haven't seen him or the car in many years, hope he's still with us.

DB4 Tim is Tim Lamkin, who has the sister rotary powered DB4 to mine. I haven't chatted with him in a while so not sure about his car these days though, it's been a while since we've communicated. Our cars were converted by tony Woodford and Tony said the conversion was pretty expensive!

[DB4 Tim]

I am still around...

Mine.. I changed over to the 13b, it is just north of 300hp, considerably different to drive but a blast. I changed to the 13 because of an over abundance of parts for them...it was fun to convert it is 5/8 of an inch longer than the 12A. Does not sound like much but it is. Have some health issues and have not got to race it for a bit....hopefully.. soon I can.
Its rare now the only 13b Swift Atlantic on the planet

Tim

[DB4 Tim]

An acquaintance of mine from New Mexico used to run one of the 13B Swift conversions, I believe there were two of those built when the engine was being considered. Very well done, too bad I can in no way fit in a DB-4 (probably a good thing for my wallet).

I think his screen name was DB4Tim maybe? Cancer survivor, haven't seen him or the car in many years, hope he's still with us.

HI Rick,

I am still around and when we last chatted at a race ....I was lucky not knowing (LIKE ALL) what was in-store for me. MY count now is four cancers...and three nasty cases (none you can catch) diseases s, big ones 1....I seem to the be the petri dish of life.
The quiet marvelous thing, when you least expect the down in the dumps and no reason to even get up in the morning......you find many folks much worse than us.......and the day get brighter because you get to help some .

Odd how life throws things and you until sticks and you get it. The car is race read,started even working on the spare tube. One foot in front of the other

Tim

[tige00]

Need to run a single inlet restictor, which is a waste with a rotary, and do look around as 13b parts are scarce no longer can you get the front steel, ask yourself why mazda North American carries very minimal parts, apex seals are gone can only get ceramic which is north of 1700 bucks, parts ate way to expensive to build a throw away motor, can only grind down the steel plates twice then they are junk , like I said ran the rotary for 20 plus years, that is why we left it no more parts. You can now build a piston engine that has way more torque than the rotary for the same price. Just call mazdatrix and racing beat they will tell you the same thing

[DB4 Tim]

Need to run a single inlet restictor, which is a waste with a rotary, and do look around as 13b parts are scarce no longer can you get the front steel, ask yourself why mazda North American carries very minimal parts, apex seals are gone can only get ceramic which is north of 1700 bucks, parts ate way to expensive to build a throw away motor, can only grind down the steel plates twice then they are junk , like I said ran the rotary for 20 plus years, that is why we left it no more parts. You can now build a piston engine that has way more torque than the rotary for the same price. Just call mazdatrix and racing beat they will tell you the same thing

Try looking in the fields of Japan, This 13b is utility engine same one just beefed up quiet a bet, I they run it 24-7 for pumps that is the base we choose. All engine's have as shelf life on parts ....kind of like humans, hope you have parts for your. (engine)

[reidhazelton]

Need to run a single inlet restictor, which is a waste with a rotary, and do look around as 13b parts are scarce no longer can you get the front steel, ask yourself why mazda North American carries very minimal parts, apex seals are gone can only get ceramic which is north of 1700 bucks, parts ate way to expensive to build a throw away motor, can only grind down the steel plates twice then they are junk , like I said ran the rotary for 20 plus years, that is why we left it no more parts. You can now build a piston engine that has way more torque than the rotary for the same price. Just call mazdatrix and racing beat they will tell you the same thing

I disagree. I have owned several Rotary cars and still have two. I have no issue getting parts. The aftermarket for these cult powerplants is very strong.

[gtwiss]

Regardless of the parts availability, torque figures, sir requirement, there is no reason not to include
all manner of motors(including rotary) in the engine "tables" for one of the premier classes of racecar in the club. As far
as getting it readded, i wouldn't get your hopes up. I tried to get a 12a "readded" to the P1 table
and that was shot down. I am not sure what is worse, seeing a field of 6 cars all running alone, or a field
of 30 with some good racing happening(no I really am). The balance of performance should be a formula for motors, and
not specific to any make(IMHO) To me it seems like a simple way to let everyone come out and "play" and not
for fear of making some changes to the motor rules for a class. The fact that rotarys are Mazda powerplants
makes me wonder how that doesn't bear any weight in their decision, what with Mazda's considerable stake
in SCCA racing. So.....what harm would it do to add it back?......million dollar question

[Steve Demeter]

Amen I don't have a dog in this one but I see no reason not to readd the rotary engines. But that would make common sense.......

[tige00]

You all make some descent points but still very expensive aftermarket parts, I used to build these for less than 10 gs, no way is it near that now and why would you pay so much for a throw away engine with no torque, get an mzr and a rotary won't touch it, why do you think the rotary isn't around and p1 Elans use an mzr. Even Jim downing couldn't be competitive and he builds the best. Just saying been there done that. Days of the rotary are gone, need torque they are even gone in gt3 and mazdas stake in scca sure isnt with the rotary, not in North america

[Garey Guzman]

Last I checked, an FA-spec 12A cost about 30% what an FA Toyota cost and would last many times longer.

[tige00]

Your fooling yourself, on longevity.
Mzr is the way to go cheaper and better than rotary and Toyota. Rotaries are just aren't competitive