Fun trying to buy Aviation Fuel

[housejoe]

So I’m sure most of you have a similar story, but after a telephone call with my local municipal airport, where I was informed that they would in fact sell me 100LL over the counter, I proceeded to the airport only to meet with another person who informed me that this was “against the law”. Of course after reading all of the horror stories online about people trying to buy AV gas for off-road use I fully expected this.. And when questioned by his boss the guy that I originally spoke to walked his story back completely. Also fully anticipated..What I did not expect was the harsh reaction and treatment I received when I asked where this policy/rule was written so that I could read it for myself. This triggered much anger from the airport manager who first blamed his fuel supplier (which it turns out he gave me the name of the wrong supplier) then the EPA, then the FAA and in the end could not/would not produce a single document or source to back up his policy of not selling fuel over the counter. He could not even produce a written policy governing his own airport. What was strange was as I turned to leave he told me to never try to buy “this” again. Challenge accepted.
So this afternoon I filled out a public records request to the City who runs the airport (who also made a tidy 186k last year in avgas sales revenue according to the 2022-23 city budget), I asked for any airport or city policy which prohibits such sales of avgas for off-road use. Of course prior to doing this I did some checks of FAA and EPA regs and I can find nothing that limits 100ll sales to aviation only, although all three of my local airports gave me the same spiel. So since this is a public entity and I am a tax payer. I plan to needle them a bit. However if any of you have experience with this and can point me to a governing document that does in-fact limit sales of 100ll to airplanes (or their owners) only, then I’ll gladly back down. Right now it seems that this “regulation” is just urban legend propagated to protect and preserve the last remaining leaded transport fuel for the use of aviation community only..

BTW, This all may be for naught since I am told by Dietmar that I can get the same performance from 93 octane pump gas, but until I compare it to 1:1 with 100ll on the dyno I’ll always be wondering…sorry Dietmar!!

[Hailey's Comet]

So I’m sure most of you have a similar story, but after a telephone call with my local municipal airport, where I was informed that they would in fact sell me 100LL over the counter, I proceeded to the airport only to meet with another person who informed me that this was “against the law”. Of course after reading all of the horror stories online about people trying to buy AV gas for off-road use I fully expected this.. And when questioned by his boss the guy that I originally spoke to walked his story back completely. Also fully anticipated..What I did not expect was the harsh reaction and treatment I received when I asked where this policy/rule was written so that I could read it for myself. This triggered much anger from the airport manager who first blamed his fuel supplier (which it turns out he gave me the name of the wrong supplier) then the EPA, then the FAA and in the end could not/would not produce a single document or source to back up his policy of not selling fuel over the counter. He could not even produce a written policy governing his own airport. What was strange was as I turned to leave he told me to never try to buy “this” again. Challenge accepted.
So this afternoon I filled out a public records request to the City who runs the airport (who also made a tidy 186k last year in avgas sales revenue according to the 2022-23 city budget), I asked for any airport or city policy which prohibits such sales of avgas for off-road use. Of course prior to doing this I did some checks of FAA and EPA regs and I can find nothing that limits 100ll sales to aviation only, although all three of my local airports gave me the same spiel. So since this is a public entity and I am a tax payer. I plan to needle them a bit. However if any of you have experience with this and can point me to a governing document that does in-fact limit sales of 100ll to airplanes (or their owners) only, then I’ll gladly back down. Right now it seems that this “regulation” is just urban legend propagated to protect and preserve the last remaining leaded transport fuel for the use of aviation community only..

BTW, This all may be for naught since I am told by Dietmar that I can get the same performance from 93 octane pump gas, but until I compare it to 1:1 with 100ll on the dyno I’ll always be wondering…sorry Dietmar!!

Dietmar is correct. Find a station that has non-ethanol fuel and use that. It will keep the carb happy too. These engines don't have enough compression to burn higher octane fuels effectively anyway.
Either way find out what your particular engines likes and tune to that accordingly.
Also Sonoco makes a 93 non-ethanol fuel.
Maybe a dealer in your area can find it:
Impact Race Fuel Lone Star Super Gas, Inc. Kilgore, TX (903) 983-3384

[Steve Davis]

In fact .. there is NO regulation of any sort for SELLING AV GAS. The only regulation is that it NOT be used ON ROAD since there is not 'road tax' associated with it. (however there IS, of course, a Fed gas tax, but that's a separate issue).

Generally speaking, MOST of the small (non 'controlled' .. meaning NO CONTROL TOWER FOR AIRPLANES) airports have SELF SERVICE stations and are HAPPY to sell to whomever drops by to PAY them for fuel. That USUALLY also means that NO COMMERCIAL air transport is serviced there (scheduled airlines of any sort). Most of those will also have only ONE SINGLE RUNWAY... and generally less than 1 mile long. There are HUNDREDS of those airports around .. you just have to find the one you want.

In my case, I have TWO airports within reasonable driving distance that simply REFUSE to sell me AvGas.. no matter what the rules are. I also have about 4 other (SMALLER) airports that are quite happy to sell me fuel .. or let me buy it since it's all SELF SERVICE. I call the airport (manager?) and tell them what I need the fuel for and they give me a gate access code (generally the unicom frequency) to access the pumps. You need to be careful and keep in mind that it IS an AIRPLANE facility .. and treat it with kid gloves, but MOST places are happy to have you buy their fuel.

Local MUNICIPAL airports, generally support SOME SORT of commercial air traffic and therefore (for some UNKNOWN REASON) *ALL* seem to be averse to selling AvGas into anything other than an airplane. I too have argued .. all to no avail. They are GOV'T employees and TERRIFIED of getting fired for doing something they think MIGHT be wrong.

I don't know really where you are, but Collegedale ( (423) 236-5008) looks to me like a likely prospect to happily sell you fuel. Just call them and ask before you make the drive. I also see listed a 'Dallas Bay Skypark', up in Hixson (1824 East Crabtree Rd. Hixson, TN 37343 (423) 842-9845).

You might have already tried both, but I'd be pretty surprised if at least one of them would not be HAPPY to sell you AvGas by the can.

Steve, FV80
PS.. I prefer AvGas to simply 'non-ethanol' because it is truly INERT. It is designed and intended to sit in airplane tanks (and Carburetors) for many MONTHS at a time. It will evaorate completely leaving ZERO residue as opposed to all those 'other fuels' that will lacquer up a carb jet in 30 days, requiring a complete disassembly to clean up and get working properly again. It's also VERY NICE to fuel cells in general.

[Rick Kirchner]

Yup. No law against it. They are stupidly losing revenue in not selling to you.

Go to an uncontrolled airport after hours. Look for a personnel gate near the flight line. It ill likely have a 5-pin punch lock. Stick your phone thru the fence and take a pic of the back of it - the code will be there. this is so people can fly in and then get back to their planes.

Go out to the self-serve pumps. Use NCC-1701 for the tail number.

[housejoe]

In fact .. there is NO regulation of any sort for SELLING AV GAS. The only regulation is that it NOT be used ON ROAD since there is not 'road tax' associated with it. (however there IS, of course, a Fed gas tax, but that's a separate issue).

Generally speaking, MOST of the small (non 'controlled' .. meaning NO CONTROL TOWER FOR AIRPLANES) airports have SELF SERVICE stations and are HAPPY to sell to whomever drops by to PAY them for fuel. That USUALLY also means that NO COMMERCIAL air transport is serviced there (scheduled airlines of any sort). Most of those will also have only ONE SINGLE RUNWAY... and generally less than 1 mile long. There are HUNDREDS of those airports around .. you just have to find the one you want.

In my case, I have TWO airports within reasonable driving distance that simply REFUSE to sell me AvGas.. no matter what the rules are. I also have about 4 other (SMALLER) airports that are quite happy to sell me fuel .. or let me buy it since it's all SELF SERVICE. I call the airport (manager?) and tell them what I need the fuel for and they give me a gate access code (generally the unicom frequency) to access the pumps. You need to be careful and keep in mind that it IS an AIRPLANE facility .. and treat it with kid gloves, but MOST places are happy to have you buy their fuel.

Local MUNICIPAL airports, generally support SOME SORT of commercial air traffic and therefore (for some UNKNOWN REASON) *ALL* seem to be averse to selling AvGas into anything other than an airplane. I too have argued .. all to no avail. They are GOV'T employees and TERRIFIED of getting fired for doing something they think MIGHT be wrong.

I don't know really where you are, but Collegedale ( (423) 236-5008) looks to me like a likely prospect to happily sell you fuel. Just call them and ask before you make the drive. I also see listed a 'Dallas Bay Skypark', up in Hixson (1824 East Crabtree Rd. Hixson, TN 37343 (423) 842-9845).

You might have already tried both, but I'd be pretty surprised if at least one of them would not be HAPPY to sell you AvGas by the can.

Steve, FV80

Hi Steve, in fact Collegedale was the place at issue. And it’s so convenient right on my way home from work. From here it’s another ~20 mile drive one way to get to the next nearest “air field”. I’m going to keep pushing here, probably to no avail, but If it works out, the effort put in now could save me a lot of time in the future.

[housejoe]

yup. No law against it. They are stupidly losing revenue in not selling to you.

Go to an uncontrolled airport after hours. Look for a personnel gate near the flight line. It ill likely have a 5-pin punch lock. Stick your phone thru the fence and take a pic of the back of it - the code will be there. This is so people can fly in and then get back to their planes.

Go out to the self-serve pumps. Use ncc-1701 for the tail number.

nice!

[Steve Davis]

The key is UNCONTROLLED. the pumps are SELF SERVICE. Go out there some time during the day and just look around. See if you can gain access to the gas pump area (google " ;='airport name' unicom" - you'll probably find the UNICOM Frequency listed .. use it for the gate if you have no better info). If you can gain that access, then just DON'T ASK.. drive around to the pumps, fill your cans/jugs and LEAVE . At single strip, uncontrolled airports, 90% of the time NO ONE IS THERE to question you.

The TAIL NUMBER question on the pumps is so that, if someone has a PROBLEM after buying fuel there (for an airplane) and ... maybe CRASHES? (hopefully not), the FAA can notify all recent AIRPLANE FUEL purchasers at that pump. Not going into an airplane = NO IMPORTANTE!

Steve, FV80

[Matt Clark]

a Public Records Request? I like that. lol
And as several others have stated, there is absolutely no law saying they cannot sell it. Heck, my local airport people are always happy to chat & hear about how my racing is going when I walk in with my gas cans. Then they open the gates to let me drive out to the hangers to meet the fuel truck.

One thing I will slightly disagree with... is that while it's correct we do not have a lot of compression to need the higher octane, it DOES help with being able to get aggressive with the timing. It is not a massive amount, but it does add power. We have found this on the FV dyno, plus I work at Lycoming Engines in the Engineering Dept. Even on our low-HP models, when we tried to run standard pump MoGas, power dropped off. With our turbo'd models, I am not sure the plane would've even got off the ground right (roughly 315hp down to 265hp).
No matter what, also as mention, they key is to make sure the engine is set up for that fuel.

[Ed Womer]

You might be surprised but not all airports have a security fence around them. If not then access is not an issue. Like previously mentioned be very alert and respectful and most all plane people are very friendly and willing to help. You can put in any number when asked and it should not be an issue. Look around at planes to get an idea of how the numbers are done.

Ed

[Steve Davis]

..You can put in any number when asked and it should not be an issue. ...

Ed

That is true. There seem to be NO checks for any sort of validity of the number. I feel it best to use something that could never be connected to a real aircraft. I like the Starship Enterprise number - NCC1701. That one PROBABLY won't be used for an actual aircraft in our lifetime.

Steve

[Rick Kirchner]

The purpose of the fake tail number is to prevent a low-probability but nasty surprise. If they pull a sample out of the tank and it fails, everyone who bought fuel from that delivery has to drain their tanks. Since aircraft may sit for months without a fuel purchase, a guy could get screwed if he never bought from a bad batch but your purchase indicated he did.

[race14]

nice!

Web site airnav.com will give you a list and location and fuel prices to airports around the country, uncontrolled fields like Collagedale will include the managers phone number, If you wish to call and see if they will sell you avgas.

[Rick Kirchner]

duplicate

[jtaphorn]

The longer term stability and low odor alone are adequate justification to sourcing Avgas.

[FVRacer21]

For new people getting into FV there are some practical matters.

The nearest airport is 30 miles away or more. So it is 1 hours out and back as well as the street car fuel cost.

The local Sunoco race fuel distributor is 10 minutes away along with several race tracks.

For many races you will use less than 6 gallons of fuel per weekend, so the difference in AVGAS (which in some places is over $8.50 a gallon) and racing gas ($12 - 13 right now?)

BTW - I found this: https://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html - look for self serve

Now the last time I was in PA, I saw that Sheetz was selling 94 octane non ethanol fuel for around $2 more than standard fuel.

Here is a link but with a caveat:

https://www.pure-gas.org/

Some of the stations listed, are listed because they carry CAM II in cans. You have to be careful as some of these are marked up to $20 per gallon!

Link to Sunoco Fuels https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/compare-fuels

Also - Racing fuels are moving to unleaded - I think that is all that is available at New Hampshire - could always spike with leaded....

I also hear that the FAA is pushing unleaded AVGAS - so be careful shat you are pumping.

BTW - I worked at an Amoco Station in NY in the 70's - our "premium" octane was unleaded - and many muscle car owners came in as it did not foul up their sparkplugs - of course we don't know what Amoco put in instead of lead....

FYI: because of the high cost of gasoline, the ethanol rules have been relaxed for street gas and you may be seeing up to 15% rather than the 10%.

ChrisZ

[Hardingfv32]

...it DOES help with being able to get aggressive with the timing. It is not a massive amount, but it does add power. We have found this on the FV dyno.

Assuming the current SCCA rule set for the FV engine and fuels, 34-36 deg is the established number for timing the FV engine. This has been developed through 3-4 decades of trial and error both on the dyno and track. Going beyond 36 deg does not increase power. If you could find a legal faster burning fuel (you cannot) it would be possible to reduce timing and possibly increase peak power.

Note, octane has nothing to do with burn rate.

Brian

[Matt Clark]

Assuming the current SCCA rule set for the FV engine and fuels, 34-36 deg is the established number for timing the FV engine. This has been developed through 3-4 decades of trial and error both on the dyno and track. Going beyond 36 deg does not increase power. If you could find a legal faster burning fuel (you cannot) it would be possible to reduce timing and possibly increase peak power.

Note, octane has nothing to do with burn rate.

Brian

Whatever you want to believe.
I will believe my engine builder & the dyno sheet.

[Rick Kirchner]

The FAA is experimenting with unleaded AVGAS. When it comes out, it will be marked, and I will assume one thing that is not true with current unleaded MOGAS - it will not damage your fuel cells. No way is the FAA going to approve something that will cause leaks, clogs, and potential fires, and they aren't going to mandate changing out fuel cells.

The fuel cell degradation, ethanol or not, from pump gas is real.

[Hardingfv32]

.... it DOES help with being able to get aggressive with the timing. It is not a massive amount, but it does add power. We have found this on the FV dyno,

Ignition timing is all about correctly positioning the peak pressure of combustion at just the that right spot on the crankshafts rotation to get max net torque for that cycle. Since combustion takes time, it is almost always the case that combustion must start way before top dead center. In the case of a FV engine that is 34-36 before top dead center. Remember combustion before TDC is negative torque as the piston is actually still needing to continue upward while the early combustion want to drive it downward. So the timing setting is a compromise of the negative torque vs positive torque. You are trying to get the maximum net positive torque possible.

So again assuming that an SCCA compliant engine where nothing has change to allow an improved the pressure of combustion in 3-4 decades, why would more aggressive timing (I assume more) be of any value? Your dyno results do not hold water.

Brian

[Ed Womer]

I DID not imply that anyone should use an existing tail number. Just look around and see how they are done so what you enter is similar to what planes have.

I am north of HBG PA ant the Rutter's on 322 sells ethanol free 90 octane and I have been using it for my first car. I think it was about $2 a gallon more than premium unleaded last time in June.

Ed

[BLS]

Web site airnav.com will give you a list and location and fuel prices to airports around the country, uncontrolled fields like Collagedale will include the managers phone number, If you wish to call and see if they will sell you avgas.

Thanks for the reminder. Those that want av gas should use that to find all the local airports in your zip code area.

[Steve Davis]

100ll.com is another option. It's the one I generally use. You can search by city, state... county....airport name, etc.
Steve

[Matt Clark]

Your dyno results do not hold water.

Brian

I think I will listen to what QuickSilver + the worlds largest aircooled piston engine supplier have found.

[DLRacing]

So I’m sure most of you have a similar story, but after a telephone call with my local municipal airport, where I was informed that they would in fact sell me 100LL over the counter, I proceeded to the airport only to meet with another person who informed me that this was “against the law”. Of course after reading all of the horror stories online about people trying to buy AV gas for off-road use I fully expected this.. And when questioned by his boss the guy that I originally spoke to walked his story back completely. Also fully anticipated..What I did not expect was the harsh reaction and treatment I received when I asked where this policy/rule was written so that I could read it for myself. This triggered much anger from the airport manager who first blamed his fuel supplier (which it turns out he gave me the name of the wrong supplier) then the EPA, then the FAA and in the end could not/would not produce a single document or source to back up his policy of not selling fuel over the counter. He could not even produce a written policy governing his own airport. What was strange was as I turned to leave he told me to never try to buy “this” again. Challenge accepted.
So this afternoon I filled out a public records request to the City who runs the airport (who also made a tidy 186k last year in avgas sales revenue according to the 2022-23 city budget), I asked for any airport or city policy which prohibits such sales of avgas for off-road use. Of course prior to doing this I did some checks of FAA and EPA regs and I can find nothing that limits 100ll sales to aviation only, although all three of my local airports gave me the same spiel. So since this is a public entity and I am a tax payer. I plan to needle them a bit. However if any of you have experience with this and can point me to a governing document that does in-fact limit sales of 100ll to airplanes (or their owners) only, then I’ll gladly back down. Right now it seems that this “regulation” is just urban legend propagated to protect and preserve the last remaining leaded transport fuel for the use of aviation community only..

BTW, This all may be for naught since I am told by Dietmar that I can get the same performance from 93 octane pump gas, but until I compare it to 1:1 with 100ll on the dyno I’ll always be wondering…sorry Dietmar!!

Just contact the municipal legal council and ask him or her to produce the legal standing to refuse purchase of product from a publicly held utility. No documentation , no barrier. Barrier goes up, $150.00 court filing fee in the municipal court to justify refusal of that which does not exist and the matter closes quickly without objection.

I have highest regards for Dietmar. He is a true gentleman and has always treated me well !!!! Yes, 93 will get "close" performance to 100ll. But pump gas has fillers that Avac does not. Therefore Avac offers higher BTU per gallon. Simple test. Place 1 oz of each on a plate of glass and see which vaporizes first. The Avac will be gone long before the pump gas. The pump gas fillers take longer to vaporize and leaves residue. The residue on glass tells all. Cleaner burn, cleaner motor, and IMO more power. Cleaner burn, less oil contamination in the natural blow by process. Win, win. Four race events, added 2 oz of oil, oil clean as the day put in. Plugs are clean. Just got to work with the engineering that when into these engines. Might be why our team gets four to six competitive seasons from a motor. Steveo beats his motor like it was an outhouse rat and got seven seasons on the last build all the time running up front in the VSCDA.

One more thing, these engines were designed to run on lead free, crap octane gas. Not to mention crude oil strained thru soiled underwear. It was the era of war. That is why the valve seats and valves are hardened. It's also why the guides are brass or bronze as this material provide its own lubrication. It's also why I harvest the seats from 371 heads to use in 373 heads.

Do the home work. Prove to yourself. The knowledge is then yours.

Cheers,
Dave

[housejoe]

Just contact the municipal legal council and ask him or her to produce the legal standing to refuse purchase of product from a publicly held utility. No documentation , no barrier. Barrier goes up, $150.00 court filing fee in the municipal court to justify refusal of that which does not exist and the matter closes quickly without objection.

Yep, that process is in motion, and I made a public records request asking for any and all Airport and City written policies which expressly forbid sale of 100ll for off-road use. They have produced a bunch of meaningless internet search results from various racing fuel suppliers talking about how bad aviation fuel is for race engines. No conflict of interest there for sure…

The only document they did produce that could hold water, is a training Powerpoint slide from their fuel supplier (Titan Fuels) which states that the fuel is for aviation use only. The airport says that this contractually prohibits them from selling it for any other purpose. However a PowerPoint slide is not “contract”…

They also produced an unnamed document (internet sourced) which states that the EPA clean air act also applies to off-road vehicles, (they are implying that due to the clean air act leaded fuel is also illegal for off-road use). I’m sure the EPA defines off-road as lawn mowers, chainsaws and the like, but I need more time to research (clean air act is 1000+ pages) before contacting an attorney. I cannot expect a local good-ole boy lawyer to do competent research on this topic, therefore I will do the legwork. I also have to acknowledge that the judge I may eventually be in front of may also have strong connections to the municipality that I am suing…stay tuned..

[Hardingfv32]

....Yes, 93 will get "close" performance to 100ll. But pump gas has fillers that Avac does not. Therefore Avac offers higher BTU per gallon.

Actual scientific test of BTU levels indicated the Avgas and E10 have on average equal BTU content/levels.

Valve seats: No need to reuse old valve seats. You don't think valve seat metallurgy might have improve a little in the last 60 years. After all they are made for current no-lead engines.

Even with old stock seats, you are not going to see much valve seat erosion between racing valve jobs. Just how many miles do you actually put on during a season? Maybe 2000 miles if you really race a lot.

A high output engine is not going to have a combustion chamber that stays clean or burns almost no oil.

Brian

[Rick Kirchner]

Does Collegedale not have automated pumps? There's not even a freaking fence around the place. Just drive up after hours and buy it.

Marion county has fuel. Just tell 'em you have an ultralight flying out of Wilson.

[housejoe]

Does Collegedale not have automated pumps? There's not even a freaking fence around the place. Just drive up after hours and buy it.

Marion county has fuel. Just tell 'em you have an ultralight flying out of Wilson.

Thanks for the tip about Marion.

Collegedale does have a fence, but I cannot tell where exactly the pumps are by using google earth. I’m sure I can get the gate code, and scope it out.

[Rick Kirchner]

I'm used to having to find the gate code, but I'm moving and the airport in my new town isn't locked. You have to just go out and wander around. It's not illegal or anything.

Places no longer have in-ground tanks, so the pumps are generally right in front of huge above ground tanks, usually two, one for JET A and one for AVGAS, and there's usually some kind of access nearby for the fuel delivery truck.

[Steve Davis]

I'm used to having to find the gate code, but I'm moving and the airport in my new town isn't locked. You have to just go out and wander around. It's not illegal or anything.

Places no longer have in-ground tanks, so the pumps are generally right in front of huge above ground tanks, usually two, one for JET A and one for AVGAS, and there's usually some kind of access nearby for the fuel delivery truck.

All the small airports I've visited have key-pad entry gates .. and MOST of them use the 4 digits of their unicom frequency as their code. However MOST of them also have the code written somewhere .. like the back of the keypad. It did take me a while to get the code at Monroe when I went there. It wasn't listed anywhere, but I called the number I found on the web and the guy that answered gave me the code.

All of the info you need should be on Aircraft sectional maps that you can buy at most any airport.. or order online. Pilots that fly into uncontrolled airports HAVE to be able to access fuel .. if that airport has fuel at all. There is also almost always a pilots lounge close to the tanks - for bathrooms and other info. Often unmanned, but also uses either the same as gate code entry or maybe the CTAF frequency instead of unicom. Monroe (GA) used the CTAF for the lounge, so I just had to look that up on my phone to get the code. However, the gate code was unrelated. Seemed that MANY different codes were used.... I'd guess so that they could 'kinda' track WHO goes in and out most often for some reason. Most even have a CAR available for getting into town or a store. Keys are in the lounge.. use the car and return it full of gas, return the keys to the lounge. A LOT of trust out there in that regard.

Steve

[FVRacer21]

By the way, when looking through the New Hampshire Supps for this weekend, I found the following:

Fuel available:
Pump (self serve)
Sunoco 93 unleaded,
Sunoco 260 GTX (98 octane unleaded);

Per 5 gallon pail: (I assume only during certain hours)
Sunoco 260 GT (100 octane unleaded),
Sunoco 260 GTX (98 octane unleaded),
Sunoco Optima (95 octane, unleaded & ethanol free),
Sunoco Standard (110 octane leaded),
Sunoco Supreme (112 octane leaded).

No price was given.

ChrisZ

[FVRacer21]

Thought people would be interested in this. A little dry, but does go over the current status of Avgas:

The Long, Twisted And Slightly Ridiculous Story of Avgas Part 1

The Long, Twisted And Slightly Ridiculous Story of Avgas Part 2

The question is, is avgas getting to be the same price as racing gas?

ChrisZ

[Rick Kirchner]

The question is, is avgas getting to be the same price as racing gas?

ChrisZ

Its less than a dollar a gallon more than regular out here in Cali. Cheaper than premium in many places.

[DanW]

100 LL was $7.49/Gal at Rio Vista Muni Airport today.

[reidhazelton]

I've never had an issue at a municipal or uncontrolled airport. Secured airports - that's another issue.

Pro tip - if you act like you belong there and know what you are doing no one will hassle you. If you call ahead, ask if it's ok, you're going to eventually find some hardass who is going to turn into the No Fun police.

Most pumps at uncontrolled airports are open, self-serve, and unstaffed. Drive up (carefully - watch out for planes as some have horrible taxi visibility), pull out your gas cans, and fill them up. If someone hassles you just tell them you have a home built ultralight at home and BS your way through the conversation about how it's just an aluminum lawn chair with an engine bolted to it, no you don't have a pilot's license, and yes you have a death wish. That should cover the bases for how that conversation will go with most pilots (says a guy with a pilot's license).

[nhJohn]

It cost me $8.00 per gallon 2 weeks ago for the NH Race.
9 Gallons Total
Andover MA airport. The person who owns the pump was quite the character.
(Need to go again tomorrow for this weekend's race.)

[DannyPip]

Very interesting thread.

The nearest(and only) airport to sell Mogas(UL94) to any of us in the Northeast is Walter J Kolodza(KGBR) airport in Great Barrington MA. You could also go on the Cape in Falmouth(5B6) but that's a bit of a ride I'm guessing for everyone.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KGBR

As of August 16th, UL94 was $5.30 a gallon and is self-service there. It's about 80 miles from my house, but is almost on the way to either Palmer, Thompson, or New Hampshire. As in not too far out of the way(maybe 30 minutes extra). It's not too bad to even LRP which is my closest track.

100LL is available at many, many more airports in the northeast. Much closer to me too. There is one about 3 miles away!

This is a great thought-provoking thread.

EDIT: The two shown in the pic in Maine have 91 octane only, not UL94. I can get 91 non-ethanol less than a mile from my house. That's what I ran in NH OWDE.