Pertronix Ignitor Electronic Ignition

[Gary Godula]

I know this has been discussed previously, but I wanted to see what the current impressions are.....has Pertronix improved the reliability/durability of their Ignitor Electronic Ignition systems for the Bosch distributor, or do the new units still have a 50% chance of surviving a race weekend? The last one I had lasted 2 months and less then 3 race weekends. I do not have any new sets of points left and the one in the car is getting somewhat bouncy. TIA.

[Chris Livengood]

I think they last years now. They never liked sitting around while being powered up without being triggered, but as I recall they added some sort of protection for that and the issue is resolved. I have a pair on my motorcycle that have lasted 7 years and we have a trifecta on our race car that have lasted 5 years.

Obviously these aren't Kents, but it shouldn't matter.

[TimH]

I gather Ivey has finally found another electronic trigger system that is reliable and SCCA legal.

[Gary Godula]

I don't know. The last Pertronix I had (which failed) was Ivey-installed. I have not checked with him on another unit.

[roadracer]

Gary,
Pertronix has had various issues through the years, from the magnets coming loose to failures within the unit itself. At one point it seemed they changed to an overseas supplier and the quality slipped. Ivey stopped using them after multiple failures. If you purchase today are you getting old stock... or new? Easy to install but not completely reliable when heat and vibration are attacking.

The FAST (previously Crane Ignition) XR700 unit is bullet-proof, but requires a separate small box. Summit has them for about $100 and it uses a light/shutter system. The electronic box has a small LED light that indicates spark, so a useful feature.
Some use the electronic Pertronix distributor, remove the electronics, and install easily available ignition points.
Good luck with this!

[Chris Livengood]

There isn't a ton of science going into these sensors. Plenty of people have used off the shelf Hall effect sensors and done the same, and of course, optical sensors are popular too. Pertronix really just publishes more info and provides kits for a wide variety of machines, that is their advantage.

The major issue I have with Pertronix sensors is that they aren't that snappy. If you look at when they go from open to closed they are kind of slow. This is by design and is workable. The other issue is that they have very limited dwell, probably not a major factor for most applications but on a 2 stroke that will gladly run in reverse it is in fact a problem that needs solving. That's where optical sensors are slightly more friendly as you only need to change the window for the sensor rather than add magnets like the Hall effect sensor. There are other complications, most of which do not apply to an FF or FC.

I still think modern Pertonix Hall effects sensors are pretty solid units, if not a bit pricey.

[rdracr]

I know this has been discussed previously, but I wanted to see what the current impressions are.....has Pertronix improved the reliability/durability of their Ignitor Electronic Ignition systems for the Bosch distributor, or do the new units still have a 50% chance of surviving a race weekend? The last one I had lasted 2 months and less then 3 race weekends. I do not have any new sets of points left and the one in the car is getting somewhat bouncy. TIA.

From Rock Auto . The Porsche ones have a phonelic rubbing block which will not melt with heat.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/bo...r+points,11337

Tuck

[Rick Kirchner]

If you were designing a circuit to fire a coil, I wouldn't fool around with magnets and windows for dwell. I'd use the sensor for just the trigger. That would start a counter. input to the counter would be a variable frequency clock with about 3600 pulses/rev. Obviously the more magnets you have in the dizzy the more accurate the clock can be WRT engine RPM. You could also get really fancy with a 360 deg grey code optical encoder.

Once you have the trigger then dwell is just a number of pulses the counter uses to keep the coil drive active.

[mark53]

Gary,
Pertronix has had various issues through the years, from the magnets coming loose to failures within the unit itself. At one point it seemed they changed to an overseas supplier and the quality slipped. Ivey stopped using them after multiple failures. If you purchase today are you getting old stock... or new? Easy to install but not completely reliable when heat and vibration are attacking.

The FAST (previously Crane Ignition) XR700 unit is bullet-proof, but requires a separate small box. Summit has them for about $100 and it uses a light/shutter system. The electronic box has a small LED light that indicates spark, so a useful feature.
Some use the electronic Pertronix distributor, remove the electronics, and install easily available ignition points.
Good luck with this!

I have a Pertronix distributer modified with points. Unfortunately, I have no spare points and I am looking for a part number/brand of these ignition points for this distributer. FF Bosh and Autolite points do not fit. Any idea? Mark

[Gary Godula]

Sorry Mark, I wish I did. I just received some Bosch points from Rock Auto that Tuck provided the link for above. That will get me thru now, but ultimately I will probably go to the Crane/FAST XR-700 installed in a Bosch distributor and using a Bosch coil. I wish the system included an adjustable rev limiter.

I sent an email to Ivey asking for their recommendation, but have not received a reply yet. Considering that they were selling the Pertronix distributors for a while, I would hope they would know how to refit them with points.

[Max Power]

Sorry Mark, I wish I did. I just received some Bosch points from Rock Auto that Tuck provided the link for above. That will get me thru now, but ultimately I will probably go to the Crane/FAST XR-700 installed in a Bosch distributor and using a Bosch coil. I wish the system included an adjustable rev limiter.

I sent an email to Ivey asking for their recommendation, but have not received a reply yet. Considering that they were selling the Pertronix distributors for a while, I would hope they would know how to refit them with points.

Resurrecting this thread...

Gary, how did this work out? Do the Rock Auto points work well on the Bosch distributor?

[DanW]

Sorry Mark, I wish I did. I just received some Bosch points from Rock Auto that Tuck provided the link for above. That will get me thru now, but ultimately I will probably go to the Crane/FAST XR-700 installed in a Bosch distributor and using a Bosch coil. I wish the system included an adjustable rev limiter.

I sent an email to Ivey asking for their recommendation, but have not received a reply yet. Considering that they were selling the Pertronix distributors for a while, I would hope they would know how to refit them with points.

Last I heard, Ivey threw in the towel with Pertronix ignition and their dizzys. Some would not last an entire dyno session. Jay developed his own hall effect distributor that works very well. Scroll down to the Euro Distributor https://iveyengines.com/parts/

[Gary Godula]

Hi All,

Since there was a request for update, I used the points from Rock Auto with good results, and toward the end of the 2022 season tried a Crane XR-700 system, which failed after almost a season of use. I am currently back to points, but plan to try another XR-700 system.

After a long discussion with Cameron at Ivey, apparently one of the weak links in the electronic ignition triggering system is the consistency of the feed voltage from the car. They have found that older and worn ignition switches and master kill switches can cause some feed voltage buzzing that could lead to unhappy electronics and possible failure. I have replaced both the ignition and kill switches on the 36 year old Reynard and will hopefully try another new XR-700 system this weekend, assuming I have time to install it. As for now, the points systems are still working reliably in the car.

Funny thing is, I am heading to Ohio tomorrow to help a friend who failed a combination XR-3000/MSD ignition system on an FF. We will try to get it running on just the XR-3000 system, but may ultimately need to go back to points on that car as well. The issue with that is that the car will not have a rev limiter until we can obtain a working rev limiting rotor, or some other rev limiting device.

I am still curious what other people are finding on their ignition systems. Ivey claims that the Euro distributor that they are selling is still basically a Pertronix unit, but is using a sharp edged trigger which, he claims, has much less ignition timing scatter up to 7000 rpm. While that sounds promising, I have not heard any reports on the reliability of this unit. For $350, it better be reliable. Does anyone have any experience with the Euro distributor?

[DanW]

Gary, I had an MSD 6AL last exactly 1-1/2 weekends on my Zink Z10 using a motorcraft dizzy with an accel point and condenser set from a Ford V8.

On my existing Crossle, I've been using NOS Bosch points and condensers that are packaged under Standard Motor Parts, but when you open the package they are stamped Bosch. They last from engine build to engine build.

Part numbers:
Points
Standard GB4376
Condenser
Standard GB123
Bosch 1237330245

Rev limit rotor
Bosch 6800 RPM 1 234 332 199 The Iveys may still calibrate and sell them.

[Rick Kirchner]

If supply side problems hurt these devices, I'd ask the manufacturer what the min low voltage is, then put a zener diode at that voltage (or just above) and a big-ass cap on there to clamp it and smooth out the noise. I did that with my AIM tach amps and it works wonderfully.

[DanW]

If supply side problems hurt these devices, I'd ask the manufacturer what the min low voltage is, then put a zener diode at that voltage (or just above) and a big-ass cap on there to clamp it and smooth out the noise. I did that with my AIM tach amps and it works wonderfully.

Rick,

Would you be willing to share a wiring diagram and parts list required?
Thanks.

[Rick Kirchner]

Rick,

Would you be willing to share a wiring diagram and parts list required?
Thanks.

This is what I have on the AIM. IIRC, the AIM tach amp blows up if the battery voltage drops below 10V while cranking. I didn't even Zener clamp it. On power up, the cap charges to the max battery voltage less the drop across the diode. Its then held there, bumped whenever the supply rises above the caps voltage, and that cap just levels everything out. Because the amps (and presumably the points devices) don't draw a lot of current, the cap functions as a short-term battery. It's big though - bigger than a D-cell.

tach amp protection.pdf

[Gary Godula]

This is what I have on the AIM. IIRC, the AIM tach amp blows up if the battery voltage drops below 10V while cranking. I didn't even Zener clamp it. On power up, the cap charges to the max battery voltage less the drop across the diode. Its then held there, bumped whenever the supply rises above the caps voltage, and that cap just levels everything out. Because the amps (and presumably the points devices) don't draw a lot of current, the cap functions as a short-term battery. It's big though - bigger than a D-cell.

tach amp protection.pdf

Rick,

Would this also prevent AiM display drop-out while cranking? My AiM Evo4 system reinitializes when cranking, which also tends to screw up the SmartyCam recording. Is there a need for a large capacitor on the voltage feed for the AiM to prevent this from occurring?

Also, for those of us who are not Electrical Engineers (mechanical engineer here), what are the exact diodes and capacitors you are using? I do not know how to search or source these components. Help, please. Thank you.

[Rick Kirchner]

I can't remember the exact components. The cap is just a standard electrolytic. You can spend some time on the Digi-key website trying to parse through a bazillion components or just try to get something off of Amazon. I don't think it matters.

I have the dash-blank problem as well, and since I don't have a smarty cam the only problem I experience is noticing that sometimes when the dash comes up it's static, and I have to re-boot.

I'll have to think about cap protection for the dash. One of the things I had to do was break with legality by NOT running the dash through the master switch. Those damn things bounce too much and cause dash lock-up (although when the dash starts to lock every couple of laps it is an indication to change the master switch....). I put the dash on a high-quality MS switch and its just behind my left index finger so I can re-boot quickly without taking my hands off the wheel.

I think this might be a harder problem because the dash pulls more current than the tach amp but I'll have to do some math, or at least set up a test circuit and look at the voltage with a scope.

[DanW]

Rick,

Would this also prevent AiM display drop-out while cranking? My AiM Evo4 system reinitializes when cranking, which also tends to screw up the SmartyCam recording. Is there a need for a large capacitor on the voltage feed for the AiM to prevent this from occurring?

Also, for those of us who are not Electrical Engineers (mechanical engineer here), what are the exact diodes and capacitors you are using? I do not know how to search or source these components. Help, please. Thank you.

I added a switch to power the dash inline from the ignition switch to prevent that exact problem. Once the engine starts, I power up the dash.