What tools do I need to build this thing?

[Eric E.]

So what tools do I need to build this car? Most of my tools are woodworking tools so I am going to have to get some automotive related tools.

I have:

Engine Hoist Crane
Engine Stand
Complete Socket Rachet set SAE/metric
Bunch of air tools but my cheap compressor died. Next one is going to be a good one so I am hoping this can hold off till next year.
Welder


What else is needed?

AN wrenches or any other specialty tool needed?

Thanks.

[KField]

Every screw, nut, bolt is different. You will need metric and sae wrenches and allen wrenches.
It is actually not that bad, but we have found that you will use every size in the toolbox.

[Jim Garry]

Carroll Smith put together a list of tools needed for at the track in Prepare to Win.

[Greg Mercurio]

Sears credit card and Craftsman Club membership.

:~)

[Tim FF19]

Don't forget the lathe, milling machine and CAD system.

[Phulkrum]

Don't forget the shovel. There's plenty of "you know what" to shovel around.

Scott Brickey

[yadnum]

Eric

How much road racing / car prep exeriance do you have? Do you have any alignment equipment or pit equipment ?

Don

[Eric E.]

I don't have any real race car prep experience. I was going to build it and have a shop set it up for the first race, but I do plan on doing the setup myself as the season goes on.

I have the Front and rear toe bar kit from Kevin with some setup sheets which I haven't even looked at yet.

What other equipment do you suggest for setup and or build?

[Greg Mercurio]

Eric: A few indispensibles:

1/4" drive deep socket sets SAE/Metric
3/8" drive deep sets
3/8 drive hex keys
2-4-6-8-12" extensions
flex head ratchets
Torque wrenches
1/4 and 3/8 drive flex socket sets
needle nose pliers
duck bill pliers
diagonal cutters
Camber gage
Torpedo level
Open end/box wrenches std. and stubby
T handle hex wrenches

You could do just about anything in setup with that array.

[Eric E.]

Thanks so much Greg for the detailed list. Great help.

What are some good camber gauges for a formula car?

[Lee Shumosic]

Hi Eric,

I assume you’re in the northeast. Based on the questions your asking, the best tool I can recommend for you is Shawn @ Motion Dynamics. Have you spoken w/ him?

[TomChrist]

Eric,

Don't know anything about your car, but mine is sensitive to rake change and requires being reset for each race (new tires). A platform with scales is like a screw driver for me.

[Greg Mercurio]

Eric: I'm partial to the SmartLevel camber gage.

[Eric E.]

Yeah Lee definitly giving motion dynamics a call.

Tom that is not what I wanted to here. I was hoping to get by this year without the need to buy scales but it looks like I may have to. Do you have a FSCCA car?

Thanks Greg.

[TomChrist]

Eric, DB-6 FF.

[Jtovo]

Scales and a pad are a great thing to have, not doubt about it. Your options are buying some good scales and building a pad at home that is not transportable out of wood (you mentioned you work with wood). All a pad REALLY needs to do is lever the scales, get the car onto the scales and have room for you to roll the car off the scales a foot or so to settle the car. A good pad can be expensive but when you get one go to www.tru-bore.com he makes a very nice piece.

[Chet Zerlin]

any one have hands-on experience with using a "Ruggles" scale system?

[J Mabee]

There is an aluminum pad w/ longacre scales 4 sale on ebay right now bid at $750 - type in longacre scales to see it.
Jason

[size="1"][ February 07, 2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: J Mabee ][/size]

[RussMcB]

Originally posted by Chet Zerlin:
any one have hands-on experience with using a "Ruggles" scale system?

Quite a few years ago, back when I was even poorer than now. I bought the plans, built the "arms" using a different ratio to be better suited for a lighter formula car. They were a pain to use. I was using bathroom scales that probably weren't very accurate. I think they are more trouble than they are worth the savings. You still have to have some way to roll the car on and off. Someone pointed out to me recently, sure, digital race car scales and pads are expensive, but they provide a lot of essential information, are convenient (sort of), and they hold their resale value for a long time.

Originally posted by J Mabee:
There is an aluminum pad w/ longacre scales 4 sale on ebay right now bid at $750 - type in longacre scales to see it.
Jason

I'm pretty sure they'll sell for a price much higher than $750. .

[Dennis McCarthy]

Eric,

Lee's advice is as sound as it gets. For the upper NE region call Shawn at Motion.

The problem with buying pads,scales, alignment tools, etc. is twofold. First good stuff is not cheap. Secondly you need a pretty good understanding of how to use it in order to accomplish consistent results.

If this is a first car for you, your dollars would probably better spent with a good prep shop such as Motion who has set up several of the new cars with good results. While it may seem expensive at first, the reality is that if you haven't ever set up a formula car, it will be cheaper in the long run as you won't be wasting seat time "chasing" a good basic setup. You will probably also be more comfortable at speed and have a bit more confidence in a car that has been at least looked at by a prep shop.

A lot of reading of the Carroll Smith series books and a setup course like the one advertised here by ICP will go a long way towards helping with an understanding of the hows and why's.

[D.T. Benner]

For some people learning to setup a formula car is one of the mental challenges that make formula car racing attractive. If you have the budget for your own setup equipment and like the tecnical aspect of race car prep. then you should have your own equipment. You will have repeateable setup results and if anything happens at the track you can fix/adjust it NOW. That said,if your a driver and not a gearhead then a prepshop is the way to go. Racing is many things to many people and what is best for some is not for everyone ! I spend hours on setup because it's important and challenging. Would a shop do that or just give it the old "thats GOOD-enough effort?" Go fast,have fun make friends!

[SteveG]

Chet Zerlin asks...

any one have hands-on experience with using a "Ruggles" scale system?

Yes, 15 years worth and I still use them. Observations:
1. Pain in the a$$ to set up, getting all 4 corners anything close to level takes quite a bit of patience.

2. Once set up, they work fine. I've double and triple checked my weights against track scales and real setup platforms. Always within 1 or 2%.

3. how much is your time worth? "Real" scales are way faster to set up and lots easier to use.

4. If I didn't have so many other uses for $$$, I'd spend the $1500 for a real set in second...

Steve

[Chet Zerlin]

Thanks Steve and Russ!

[Chet Zerlin]

here's the link to the scales on e-bay (in case anyone is interested) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...hippingPayment

Take a close look at one of the pictures...looks like a small combat tank is in the background!!! Wonder what type of camber they run on that thing [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Lanjett]

I had a set of Ruggles with my last car.... cold never get repeatable measurements. They are a pain to mess with. Go ahead and pay the 1150.00 for an entry set of electronic scales, you will be glad you did.

[Jim Garry]

Go ahead and pay the 1150.00 for an entry set of electronic scales, you will be glad you did.

Definitely get scales, but don't pay $1150. You can get perfectly good scales from Staples, Office Max, etc. They have electronic scales good for up to 400lbs and accurate to within 0.5lbs. Cost: $135 each. (on sale now at Office Max for $112) Just make sure they are the same height as each other ... you may have to use thin aluminum as a shim (which I did).

http://www.officemax.com/max/solutio...kOID=536942747

[Chet Zerlin]

Jim...that's a REALLY interesting idea. Since they are digital is there a way to link them to a common display or do you need to look at each wheel individually?

[Bruce Allen FSCCA #82]

I also use Ruggles scales on my 1980 Crossle FF with good results (North Atlantic Club Ford champ). ONce you get the hang of it, you can get repeatable results. Because the FSCCA has stiffer springs I am assuming I might not get away with them any more. I level my garage floor to within 1/16 inch with my camber gage and thin flooring linoleum tiles for shims.

[RussMcB]

[quote]Originally posted by Jim Garry:

Definitely get scales, but don't pay $1150. You can get perfectly good scales from Staples, Office Max, etc.

Jim, sounds like you've done this and it's worked well for you. Are there any downsides? Do you get consistent readings? When you weigh the car facing the other the way do you get the same weights? Does it seem to be good at sensing minor changes? Do you feel like they will last a while?

Thanks.

[RussMcB]

Originally posted by Jim Garry:
Definitely get scales, but don't pay $1150. You can get perfectly good scales from Staples, Office Max, etc.

Jim, sounds like you've done this and it's worked well for you. Are there any downsides? Do you get consistent readings? When you weigh the car facing the other the way do you get the same weights? Does it seem to be good at sensing minor changes? Do you feel like they will last a while?

Thanks.

[Eric E.]

Wow lots of great info.

What about safety wire?

Do you guys safety wire anything on the FSCCA car?

And if so what size do you use? .020 .032 or .041 may be more sizes just going on what I found available online.

[Douglas Brenner]

I have a fc car and spend half of my time drilling bolt heads and safety wiring. I safety wire any bolt that doesn't have a lock nut on it (except internal engine bolts). I think it is just good practice. It might not help, but it couldn't hurt. I also think that people should have a license to use locktite. It is one of the most abused substances I know. It is good when used properly. I use anti-seize compond and proper torque in some places where people are using locktite. Makes things much easier to disassemble and maintain. I think I use .032 and you can get a really nice lock wire plier from McMaster Carr. I am using a nice little one that will twist both ways and had a little plastic insert in the cutting jaw to keep wire ends from falling where you don't want them. If you are interested let me know and I will find and post the part# I agree with lanjet about getting electronic scales. I got the 12" Longacre cheapest ones and they are great. It is also nice to see all the weights in one display. Getting good scales made a huge difference in my car. Kodiak Motorsport in Canada has great deals on these scales.
www.brennerfabrication.com

[size="1"][ February 09, 2004, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: Douglas Brenner ][/size]

[Eric E.]

Thanks Douglas I looked on there website and I think I found the pair your talking about.

Is everyone else using .032 size wire?

[Lee Shumosic]

Hi Eric,

Haven't safety wired any bolt on my car. I did use lock-tite both red and blue along w/ anti size in appropriate application / locations. Most (all) of the hardware is either metric or standard hex drive w/ ny-lock bolts. Scales a must. These cars are stiff. Variation in tire diameter between sets is enough to transfer weight. Set up pads make setting up ride height easier. One thing I have noticed is if you stay off the curbs, grass, walls etc. they hold an initial set-up pretty well.
In addition to just assembling the parts, you’ll want to buy / fab intrusion panels, wrap / protect brake lies and other plumbing as needed. Secure wire’s etc. Heat shielding for exhaust / shift line. Crimping / brazing tools for throttle / reverse lock out cables. There is a lot of little stuff.
Take time to set rod ends, push rods, shock’s etc. to consistent / same lengths prior to assembly to frame this will help ensure car is “square” prior to chasing set-up.

Good luck!

Lee

[Bruce Allen FSCCA #82]

Scales:
I looked at Office Max and found the $112, Pelouze 400 lb. +/- .5 lb scales. Is 400 lb enough? what does the rear of the car weigh, with driver?

[SStadel]

Less than 400 lbs per side. Besides scaling the car there are a lot of other reasons to use a platform, so I'm not sure how great of an idea scales like these are. Just the idea of moving the car on and off the scales after you make an adjustment, bouncing the car and then putting it back on the scales would seem like a nightmare to me. My $.02.

[Bruce Allen FSCCA #82]

I have wooden ramps I used with my Ruggles scales so I can roll the car on and off.