Can someone summarize the vintage formula environment?

[Ducman]

I’m very interested to go down the vintage formula racing path and just trying to educate myself. Will be visiting some events this summer but can anyone here break it down for me? Particularly what do race events feel like if you have one type of car versus another. For example I’m inclined to Formula B from the car side of things but notice the number of entrants at events are not so high. So Ok we all race in a mixed group anyway…but am I better to go one path or the other depending on what I want to get out of it?

What do any of you say?

thanks

[problemchild]

Every paddock has its "cliques". Finding your clique is probably more important than finding your class or car. Every clique has its own levels of intensity, dedication, commitment, competitiveness, social elements, etc. Whenever someone asks me about "what class is right for them", I tell them to start hanging out at race events. Their class will find them!

It is also important to relate "the talk" with "the walk". Some of the best talkers have the scuzziest cars and are the worst drivers. Those that influence your choices, may change significantly when you see them in action.

[Rick Kirchner]

FB seems to be concentrated in a couple of places - CSRG events in NorCal seem to have a lot of them, don't know about the upper midwest/northeast.

You might want to look into Supervee - similar performance, more competitors.

Vintage FF is booming though - that's where the numbers are. Also B sedan.

[brian styczynski]

I have raced FV in VSCDA for a few years and will try to speak to that.

The FV class gets its own race group, has about a 20 car field, and all the other, faster, formula cars are in another race group, also about 20 cars. Both FV and FF are classified as group 4, but are not on track together. The FV group is close and friendly, many cars paddock together, there is a party at the events where achievements and news is shared, new comers are welcomed, etc. Spare parts, advice and help is always available amongst the other drivers. The FV group has a very competitive fast end of the field, and competition goes all the way thru the field, with the cars being relatively equal. There is usually another car on the track for someone at any speed to race with. I expect the class to grow, I know of at least 5 or 6 vintage vees being put together to get on track in the coming years.

As far as the other formula group, from my spectator perspective, it looks like the field gets spread out based on car class as the race goes on, usually with a cluster of cars mid-field racing closely.

VSCDA seems pretty relaxed as far as tech and scrutinizing time period correctness go. It's a fun group overall, with all club dinners included, low entry fees and lots of track time. It should be a short drive for you so walk around the paddock at Grattan in a couple weeks and check it out.

[Ducman]

I have raced FV in VSCDA for a few years and will try to speak to that.

The FV class gets its own race group, has about a 20 car field, and all the other, faster, formula cars are in another race group, also about 20 cars. Both FV and FF are classified as group 4, but are not on track together. The FV group is close and friendly, many cars paddock together, there is a party at the events where achievements and news is shared, new comers are welcomed, etc. Spare parts, advice and help is always available amongst the other drivers. The FV group has a very competitive fast end of the field, and competition goes all the way thru the field, with the cars being relatively equal. There is usually another car on the track for someone at any speed to race with. I expect the class to grow, I know of at least 5 or 6 vintage vees being put together to get on track in the coming years.

As far as the other formula group, from my spectator perspective, it looks like the field gets spread out based on car class as the race goes on, usually with a cluster of cars mid-field racing closely.

VSCDA seems pretty relaxed as far as tech and scrutinizing time period correctness go. It's a fun group overall, with all club dinners included, low entry fees and lots of track time. It should be a short drive for you so walk around the paddock at Grattan in a couple weeks and check it out.

thanks for info Brian - yes Grattan is my home track and I plan to drop in on the VSCDA event

[TimH]

Greg's advice is the best: choose your group of people rather than kind of car. Most of your time will be spent in the paddock rather than on track, so the quality of your hanging-out (and fixing-up) will have a major influence on your pleasure. And being on track with folks you like and trust is a lot safer.

[tige00]

Vintage is great, can run hard as you want, it's like racing used to be a whole array of different cars, and the best of all nobody bitching about rules and crying that someone else's car is faster than theirs.

[EricP]

If you want the most options in vintage, I’d say FF. You can run nearly all vintage groups, FRP, even random quirky events like Put-In-Bay, and still SCCA for the most part. FV fits too…

[Garey Guzman]

If you want the most options in vintage, I’d say FF. You can run nearly all vintage groups, FRP, even random quirky events like Put-In-Bay, and still SCCA for the most part. FV fits too…

Specifically, 1973-1981 CF has a place with all groups, including SCCA (CF is Regionals and FF in Majors, if there is a desire to do them).

I love FBs most but they are currently beyond my budget. Never saw more than 3-5 at any one event that I can recall. The monocoque ones, including FAs and beyond, run with the slicks and wings group and are fast with a wide range of driving talent and desire.

[billtebbutt]

A few years back, I restored a March 78B. It was a ball to drive. And then, after a few events, I started thinking that, since I am pushing harder and harder each event, at some point in time I am going to biff the car. And its not like I can call up March and have them send me a new monocoque. Sure, I can get a maestro like Bahner to fix it or build a new one, but the sheer cost of a large off was beyond my budget.

So, what kind of driver are you? I can't help but try to go faster each time out. I can't hold back, not in my DNA. If you can, maybe a more exotic class like FB/SV/FA is for you (or, if you have no budget restraints, go for it!). But if you can't hold back, and are the type that is always trying to set a personal best/catch the car ahead no matter what, something a little more forgiving in the spares/repairs departments might make your racing more enjoyable over a longer period of time. Like FF.

cheers,
BT

[TimH]

So, what kind of driver are you? I can't help but try to go faster each time out.
BT

Toodling around in a race car commits a crime against its nature. I don't want to prang my car, but if I wasn't willing to accept the possibility of wadding it up I would quit.

[billtebbutt]

Toodling around in a race car commits a crime against its nature. I don't want to prang my car, but if I wasn't willing to accept the possibility of wadding it up I would quit.

Exactly Tim. Which is why I sold the March, and went back to FF!!! I can afford to both race as hard as I can AND repair it when ! run out of talent.

cheers,
BT

[Ducman]

Toodling around in a race car commits a crime against its nature. I don't want to prang my car, but if I wasn't willing to accept the possibility of wadding it up I would quit.

All good points. I agree cars are meant to be driven and I do drive them hard. I guess it’s all relative and I’ll need to get to some events to see. The car itself is really important to me. I love every mm of a nice piece of machinery and vintage really floats my boat. My current trackday car is a highly modified early 911, it’s pristine but I drive the c**p out of it. But one fully prepped as a dedicated race car seems more expensive than FB/FA/FF. Plus I love the purity of particularly the FB cars.

[Roland V. Johnson]

I strongly suggest you start in a Vintage FF. Most places we go there is a good field and it is very competitive. It is much less expensive to repair if you make mistakes than a FB or Porsche. Buy the nicest you can find..........it will, in the end normally be the cheapest to race if you want to run at the front. On the West Coast we are trying hard to keep the cars legal to the Formula Ford rule book. That keeps the competition close, and in the end keeps the driver a large part of running up front.

[Robert J. Alder]

What Roland said, 'strongly suggest you start in a Vintage FF."

I see you are in the mid-west. Visitwww.the-vmc.com and visit the clubs in your geographic area. Go to some of their events. Hang out. See what cars (AND RACERS) you'd like to race with and then have a beer with. That will lead you to a good decision.

In my admittedly biased opinion, vintage FF or CF is the most fun for the money with tons of races to pick from. A 'No Brainer."

[stonebridge20]

Vintage Club Ford is where it's at.

[Ralph Z.]

For me, FBs are the coolest cars on the planet. But, be sure to have, or get, some good experience driving a formula car before jumping in to an FB car. They are typically 180HP and top out around 150MPH. They were classified as Formula 3 cars in the day.

FV or FF would be good starting point. A lot of FF action now so you would have a lot of folks to race. That's my universe and I have found the drivers to be very friendly and willing to help. FWIW.

[bob darcey]

RMVR is hosting our annual Race Against Kids' Cancer at High Plains Raceway this weekend, with 44 entries in Fast Open Wheel. Here's how they break down: VFF-26; CF-13; FB-4; F5000-1.

[Ducman]

RMVR is hosting our annual Race Against Kids' Cancer at High Plains Raceway this weekend, with 44 entries in Fast Open Wheel. Here's how they break down: VFF-26; CF-13; FB-4; F5000-1.

thanks Bob, so how will RMVR run these? All at once or the 26 VFF together in one race and the others as a second race group?

how do average lap times of CF compare to VFF compare to FB? Assuming similar driver

Also you say “Fast Open Wheel” entries. Is there another open wheel group?

[bob darcey]

This is the RAKC, so there's a larger turnout than usual and more activities to cram into the day. In general, RMVR runs the VFF, CF and FB together; the "other" open wheel group is VW-powered---FV and FSV. So yes, all together, one "fast" and one "not so fast" group.
The lap time distribution is essentially by driver, not CF vs. VFF. There is a fairly equal distribution of each throughout the grid. It's worth noting that RMVR allows the CF's to run on slicks.