Shadow DN-4 Crash

[Lynn]

Yesterday at the WeatherTech International Challenge vintage races, a Shadow DN-4 Can-Am car driven by Jim Pace suffered a blow over crash on the main straight at Road America. While the Shadow is essentially destroyed, the good news is that Mr.Pace walked away. One report was that the crash was at 180mph, but others familiar with the track and the cars say it was about 140 mph. The report also says the car slid 150 yards on the roll bar, but it looks a hell of a lot longer to me. OTOH, I have never been there.

Note the left front tire is off the track in the second photo.

https://journal.classiccars.com/2020...-road-america/

[Mike B]

Video of the crash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...0s&app=desktop

[RussMcB]

Wow.

Nice to read this in the article's comments:

Jim Pace July 25, 2020 At 7:17 PM

Hello Tom,
The conditions (speed, headwind, drafting, acceleration etc…) were the perfect storm here. The front end lifted midway up the hill and then she blew over backwards. A lot of dusts and sparks until it stopped. Crew members and rescue workers on the scene immediately. A wild ride but I’m 100% ok. I LOVE Road America!!!
Regards,
Jim Pace

[Rick Iverson]

Wow. Pleased Jim is fine. He, along with Vic Elford and Gregg Borland were my driving instructors way back when.

The good news: any car can be rebuilt around an ID plate.

[EricP]

Wow. Pleased Jim is fine. He, along with Vic Elford and Gregg Borland were my driving instructors way back when.

The good news: any car can be rebuilt around an ID plate.

You forgot the “*”
*with enough $$$$$

[2BWise]

These things are spooky. That's the 3rd flip of a Shadow car in the last several years.

[Rick Iverson]

You forgot the “*”
*with enough $$$$$

Eric, my credo has always been: if you want to piss with the big dogs, make sure you can lift you leg high enough.

These Fellas owning and racing $300k CanAm cars have the geedas to fix them. Right about now, Marc Bahner is in the shop, putting together yet another gem.

[t walgamuth]

The Shadow needs to be grounded by the FAA.

[pakracer]

It's not Mark Bahner, It's Shane at RM that has redone all the Shadow tubs. A very talented fabricaor. I know because I saw on of them being rebuilt.

[Robins Ken]

Eric, my credo has always been: if you want to piss with the big dogs, make sure you can lift you leg high enough.

These Fellas owning and racing $300k CaAm cars have the geedas to fix them. Right about now, Marc Bahner is in the shop, putting together yet another gem.

No, a ***** implant would be safer.

Fabulous cars, seen them many times, also saw Dino C. killed in a Wolf Can Am at Mosport.

Stop it guys. Parade races only for 45 year old cars.


KR

[tige00]

Glad mr. Pace is ok.
No parade laps, nobody wants parade laps, and I doubt all the parts are still original. Did you see bennet and peace flying down that straight was beautiful that's what we like

[stonebridge20]

This is prior to the blow over. Not sure which part of the track this is but I'm thinking that the steering was VERY light at this point judging by the air under the LF tire.

[Robins Ken]

Glad mr. Pace is ok.
No parade laps, nobody wants parade laps, and I doubt all the parts are still original. Did you see bennet and peace flying down that straight was beautiful that's what we like

Agreed, they are full recreations, and are great to see on track, but 2 feet apart at 140 does not make sense given the aero of the day. 1973-5.

I did say a parade race. Gaps, no dive bombs, etc., As per Historic F1.

KR

[Purple Frog]

For years the trademark image for Road Atlanta was three airborne cars if i remember. Something like Porshe 904s.
Those early flat bottom cars didn't like transitions at the top of hills. T9 at Road Atlanta in the old days was an example.
Worked with Pace when he was one of the shoes on the Screaming Eagles Racing team with Craig T. Nelson. He was a pretty good shoe then. I'm sure today he is glad some engineer designed the roll hoop well. That was a long slide.

[R. Pare]

Most likely a combination of the long front overhang, coupled with possibly a bit too soft springs and too high a ride height. Add to that the disruption of any decent airflow over the front and the attendant loss of a fair amount of front downforce, and you've got the perfect recipe for a blowover.

Good to see that the guy is ok.

[Roland V. Johnson]

I think there is a good possibility the starters may have had to change their shorts. Having stood at the pit wall there with some of my customers CanAm cars on track, I told myself this is exhilarating, but definitely not the smartest thing you have ever done ?

[Rick Iverson]

...but 2 feet apart at 140 does not make sense given the aero of the day. KR

I don’t think so. Try 180-190 mph. Google Jim Pace CanAm Road America.

For years the trademark image for Road Atlanta was three airborne cars if i remember. Something like Porshe 904s.

Those early flat bottom cars didn't like transitions at the top of hills. T9 at Road Atlanta in the old days was an example.
Worked with Pace when he was one of the shoes on the Screaming Eagles Racing team with Craig T. Nelson. He was a pretty good shoe then. I'm sure today he is glad some engineer designed the roll hoop well. That was a long slide.

Shadows are notoriously unstable. Going down hill in a modern car. Incidental contact, but into 5?

[E1pix]

Every time I get wind that these things should be parked, I see funny.

Race ‘em. Crashes happen. Stuff happens. Life is short. Let others be delicate. I’d drive one in a minute if I had the dough.

[john f]

I don’t think so. Try 180-190 mph.

Most likely a combination of the long front overhang, coupled with possibly a bit too soft springs and too high a ride height. Add to that the disruption of any decent airflow over the front and the attendant loss of a fair amount of front downforce, and you've got the perfect recipe for a blowover.

.

They were going up the hill at the bridge when it went over. Only up to about 140 and accelerating at that point.

Jim got too close to the back of Kurt and lost the air off the front of the car. Kurt told me that he was looking in the mirror thinking that Jim was too close and watched it go up and over.

[Rick Iverson]

Every time I get wind that these things should be parked, I see funny.

Race ‘em. Crashes happen. Stuff happens. Life is short. Let others be delicate. I’d drive one in a minute if I had the dough.

Agreed. Not nearly the talent, but to have 1,100hp and to drive RA tepidly, what a rush, Man!

[Bardahl77]

30 years of off and on involvement in vintage racing, I still think the same things I thought back then. These cars killed some of the best drivers of their eras. Even if you were better than Bruce McLaren, bodywork can still fly off at 180 MPH. Hell, you look at most Can-Am cars with the bodywork off it has about as much protection as a shifter kart. I love seeing the big iron run, it makes me happy in funny places. But folks can't become complacent about safety and the lure of speed.

I lost a friend a couple of years ago when he crashed his Elva Mk8. I don't want vintage racing to start looking like racing in the 60s and 70s with respect to who we lose. There's a lot of my heroes I didn't get to see make it to old age, I would prefer if my current friends would not follow suit.

Be safe out there, and have fun!

[E1pix]

Agreed. Not nearly the talent, but to have 1,100hp and to drive RA tepidly, what a rush, Man!

You know it!

Can-Am’s safety record over its nine years is almost bewildering in context of other series. The big tub is probably its savior. I believe the only death in a race weekend was poor Dick Brown at Mosport, in I think the Series’ first year of ‘66. I’d guess F1 claimed close to ten in that era — or maybe a few more.

Big Bangers need to stay big, parades demean the show. One look at a Goodwood video shows it done right. I liken getting it wrong the same as roped-in ladders up Everest. No, Thanks.

[Offcamber1]

[QUOTE=stonebridge20;608985]This is prior to the blow over. Not sure which part of the track this is but I'm thinking that the steering was VERY light at this point judging by the air under the LF tire.[QUOTE]

Too much rear wing a factor?

[Lynn]

Agreed. Not nearly the talent, but to have 1,100hp and to drive RA tepidly, what a rush, Man!

I believe the 1200 hp car was the big, heavy and undriveable twin turbo MKIII. The smaller and lighter DN-4 went back to the normally aspirated big block with about 875 to 900 hp.

Pete Lyons is releasing a book on Shadow in September. I have a copy on pre-order.

[E1pix]

I *think* the short-lived Shadow turbo was a Chevy and all the others were Dodges — but could be confusing this with the turbo Chevy motor used by Andretti at Riverside in the Commander McLaren M20......

I took Rick’s comment as current-day power. Even normally-aspirated, I imagine today’s 550 cid may well output over 1,000 bhp whereas in the day they ran 494 cid.

[Garey Guzman]

I used to work with a guy who had a couple CanAm cars although he really tried to keep them as period correct as possible. As I recall, he said they were over 700 back then, maybe approaching 800 in the end (other than the Porsche). His CanAm engine builders could get well over 900 with modern technology, which many other CanAm owners did.

As mentioned, the aero was primitive then and other than the "McLaren from hell", the bodywork is mostly stock and doesn't prevent this type of incident. My friend thought that the extra HP was probably why a Shadow got light at Laguna Seca in 2018, going maybe 20mph faster as it crested the hill.

[Lynn]

The 5 liter Dodge powered Shadows were the DN-4B which was much different than the DN-4. The DN-4B was raced in the first 3 races of the 5 liter Can-Am era. It was considered to be the mule for the DN-6 F5000 cars.

Shadow claimed the big block Chevys used in the DN-4 produced 745 hp. Like everyone else in that period, they understated the actual hp. It was more like 775 to 795.

[fvracerone1]

These things are spooky. That's the 3rd flip of a Shadow car in the last several years.

AND I lost a dear friend Dino Crescentini when his Wolf Can Am car blew over at Mosport.

Frank

[Marty Nygard]

The fastest lap at the 1974 Elkhart CanAm race was Jackie Oliver in a DN-4 at 2:02.6ish .
In 1973, Donohue did a 1:57.53 in a Porsche 917/30K.
The fastest DSR lap there was the Tucker turbo 670cc in the high 1:50s. Less than half the Shadow's HP but substantially better aero and handling.

[mmi16]

This is prior to the blow over. Not sure which part of the track this is but I'm thinking that the steering was VERY light at this point judging by the air under the LF tire.

Suspect the RF is also off the ground but its distance in the air is hidden by the shadow.

[mmi16]

Stop it guys. Parade races only for 45 year old cars.


KR

Having cars with the potential of former Can-Am cars - even 'parade' laps tease the driver to use the right pedal to its maximum extent. Parades have different speeds. No driver that participates in this form is going to trundle around in such cars at 35-40 MPH.

Mr. Pace was not dicing for position when the incident happened, he wasn't involved in cut and thrust racing - he was basically on a parade lap - a quick parade but a parade nevertheless.

[R. Pare]

The fastest lap at the 1974 Elkhart CanAm race was Jackie Oliver in a DN-4 at 2:02.6ish .
In 1973, Donohue did a 1:57.53 in a Porsche 917/30K.
The fastest DSR lap there was the Tucker turbo 670cc in the high 1:50s. Less than half the Shadow's HP but substantially better aero and handling.

If the Tucker engineer was telling the truth, their pro driver, in testing the car, ran something like a 1:51.8!

[Marty Nygard]

Yah, I've heard of that lap and have no reason to doubt it. I've also heard that the motor was temperamental enough that it could only be started or shut down by an engineer and a lap top. Amazingly enough, once successfully started (or shut down), I am told that the motor was mostly bulletproof.
I guess the "high 1:50s" lap was Mr. Tucker himself driving down the middle of the track while avoiding the concept of coming near an apex.
As far as the rest of the rumors (HP, cost, etc); all I know is I have seen a dyno sheet for a (non-Tucker) turbo 670cc and it was a bit north of 300HP. Frankly, I think I was happier to use a stock GSXR 1000. Gave me extra time to wave to the crowds. Now, if only I could have figured out the concept of driving around corners!
Marty

[scorp997]

so what were the lap times of this vintage CanAm car prior to the blow over? I am always curious how the current owners of 'period correct vintage cars' lap substantially better than the pros did when new. Does anyone really think they can drive a car faster than, say Oliver, did in the 'same' car? I know rubber and brakes are better, etc.. but really?

[TimH]

Rubber these days is a LOT better. Aero knowledge is a little better, too.

[Robins Ken]

Having cars with the potential of former Can-Am cars - even 'parade' laps tease the driver to use the right pedal to its maximum extent. Parades have different speeds. No driver that participates in this form is going to trundle around in such cars at 35-40 MPH.

Mr. Pace was not dicing for position when the incident happened, he wasn't involved in cut and thrust racing - he was basically on a parade lap - a quick parade but a parade nevertheless.

OK so 'parade' was not the right description.

Let's try again. Historic F1 put on a decent show, at high speed, with minimal issues. The reason? It has to be good driver conduct regarding the machinery being operated and a set of ground rules accepted by the field.

It seems the Can Am group has far more 'big ones'.

Upside down and wadded up are not a good idea.

[mikey]

so what were the lap times of this vintage CanAm car prior to the blow over? I am always curious how the current owners of 'period correct vintage cars' lap substantially better than the pros did when new. Does anyone really think they can drive a car faster than, say Oliver, did in the 'same' car? I know rubber and brakes are better, etc.. but really?

not sure.. Jim Pace has a 2:06 lap on youtube in McLaren M6B. Craig Bennett has a 2:07 lap posted in a DN4 on youtube also. Both videos look like they go like hell down the straights, but don't corner any better than a modern Corvette. Neither driver appears to be "working" the wheel very hard either.

[E1pix]

TimH nailed it with his “rubber” comment, and I presume he means “tire and sidewall construction and compounds.” I’m not sure a period tire is good enough for a wheelbarrow by comparison.

I wonder, too, as unsettled as these cars are, how much time has been dropped by vastly-developed shocks since those days.

In 2001, over 50 Can-Am showed up at RA’s 35th anniversary race. Some only ran Thursday, some others through Friday, maybe 35 or so took the green. George Follmer won the race, despite being about 64 and in an unfamiliar M8FP, the 1972 McLaren customer car built by Trojan and based on the ‘71 factory M8F. Greg Mathews ran the actual factory 1970 M8D to a 2nd if memory serves, and Juan Gonzalez drove I think a ‘72 Shadow-turbo with utterly insane power. The car would simply not go straight under throttle.

I think the best lap was around a 2:04, on par with the pole for the ‘72 Can-Am set by Hulme if I recall (I was 12). I suspect if we could have brought Revvie back in 2001, he’d have run a 1:55 or less in those same cars.

To those who saw those guys run originally, the difference in driver skill is massive — and that’s okay, they were amongst the best that’s ever been. Whether Revson and Hulme, Donohue and Cevert, Scheckter and Siffert, Oliver and Minter, and Villeneuve later, those guys were pure magic in cars whose only purpose seemed to be severe and deliberate punishment to anyone ballsy enough to accept the dance.

So far as current vintage F1 compared to its era, one only need watch the Marc Gene lap at Road Atlanta on YouTube — and that from a somewhat second-tier F1 driver. One would swear the video is sped up a good 20%.

[E1pix]

Double post, sorry.

[mbahner]

No, a ***** implant would be safer.

Fabulous cars, seen them many times, also saw Dino C. killed in a Wolf Can Am at Mosport.

Stop it guys. Parade races only for 45 year old cars.


KR

It's not Mark Bahner, It's Shane at RM that has redone all the Shadow tubs. A very talented fabricator. I know because I saw on of them being rebuilt.

To keep the correct information going, Bahner Engineering has built all of Don Nichols Shadows, including the DN4's. We also rebuilt chassis #1. Several other customers Shadow's also. Plus my own DN 5 and DN-9. I also have Don Nichols original build fixtures.