Webster gearbox sticks in reverse.

[Wingmantim]

My buddy Chuck has a Webster gearbox on his Formula Ford. It shifts easily into 1,2,3, and 4 as well as it goes easily into reverse. All shifts with minimal, even pressure as it should when rocking the car. Once in reverse, it is stuck and stuck solid. Rocked the car, rocked the car very, very hard and still stuck. Removed the rear cover and wedged the reverse selector out with a screw driver. It took way too much effort. Also removed the side detent spring and sprayed with penetrating oil hoping that the ball was sticking. Anytime the gearbox is shifted into reverse, it sticks. We have not driven this car and the previous owner was not much of a mechanic judging by the numerous other issues that we have corrected on this car. Any suggestions would be welcome. Is the idler gear in backwards, shift rod bent, shaft detent burred, shift fork hanging on something, shaft out of adjustment, detent ball burred, detent hole boogered, etc. Please help.

[BorkRacing]

My buddy Chuck has a Webster gearbox on his Formula Ford. It shifts easily into 1,2,3, and 4 as well as it goes easily into reverse. All shifts with minimal, even pressure as it should when rocking the car. Once in reverse, it is stuck and stuck solid. Rocked the car, rocked the car very, very hard and still stuck. Removed the rear cover and wedged the reverse selector out with a screw driver. It took way too much effort. Also removed the side detent spring and sprayed with penetrating oil hoping that the ball was sticking. Anytime the gearbox is shifted into reverse, it sticks. We have not driven this car and the previous owner was not much of a mechanic judging by the numerous other issues that we have corrected on this car. Any suggestions would be welcome. Is the idler gear in backwards, shift rod bent, shaft detent burred, shift fork hanging on something, shaft out of adjustment, detent ball burred, detent hole boogered, etc. Please help.

I would just take out the carrier and look to see if reverse gear has slipped or been put in wrong. It is the only gear that rides over the selector instead of within. I have one gear box that it seems to slip as I am putting the carrier back in and my reverse locks up.

If that isn't the issue and actually while the carrier is out, make sure all gears are in the right order and direction.

If these fail then start looking at the detent ball adjustment etc

[bob darcey]

See pages 16 and 17 at http://www.hewlandclassic.com/assets/manuals/mk9.pdf (this is for a 5-speed but still applicable)

I think you will have to pull the bearing carrier and gear stacks out to investigate. Since it engages reverse easily, I'd guess that the selector shaft (21) and reverse fork (24) are OK, but you'll be able to confirm by operating the selector shaft on the bench with the gear clusters removed. If the shaft still gets jammed in the reverse position, you may have an issue with the lockout (24) between the reverse and 1st/2nd shaft (22). If the reverse shaft operates correctly, see if the reverse sliding hub (41) moves smoothly. If something is broken, bent or terminally worn, it should be visible.

[problemchild]

If the reverse fork is not in the groove in the reverse gear you may be able to push the reverse gear one way, but not the other. I bought a car with this problem that would not go into reverse. Perhaps it could be an issue in this case. Correct assembly fixed it, although it was a challenge loosening the big nuts.

[bob darcey]

Hewland_Mk8-9_gearstack.pdf

Here's a sketch that may help. Robby and Greg are talking about how the reverse fork (25) connects to the reverse sliding gear (41), upper right.

[BorkRacing]

This is an excellent video on how to change gears: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V097lJ1Z1g
Should help you sort out your issues which I think are a simple fix.

Robby

[john f]

If the reverse fork is not in the groove in the reverse gear you may be able to push the reverse gear one way, but not the other. I bought a car with this problem that would not go into reverse. Perhaps it could be an issue in this case. Correct assembly fixed it, although it was a challenge loosening the big nuts.

If it comes out of reverse, no matter how hard, I would disagree with your statement. Not in the groove means either go in and not come out, or come out but not go in. I would look at the interlock detent. Bent rail would not allow easy engagement. Also, check 1/2 detent groove. If worn, rail not in correct position, slightly engaging reverse interlock. Just my $0.02.

john f

[Roland V. Johnson]

Check the reverse idler gear. The reverse idler spigot is an eccentric that it rides on. It is held in place by a bolt on the side of the case. If it is miss adjusted or the bolt is missing it could cause the problem.

[BorkRacing]

If it comes out of reverse, no matter how hard, I would disagree with your statement. Not in the groove means either go in and not come out, or come out but not go in. I would look at the interlock detent. Bent rail would not allow easy engagement. Also, check 1/2 detent groove. If worn, rail not in correct position, slightly engaging reverse interlock. Just my $0.02.

john f

John,
It seems no matter what I say you disagree. My gearbox goes into reverse but gets stuck if the reverse gear slips out of the fork. I cannot get it out by using the shifter rod but a screw driver will work just as the OP said. How do you know that is wrong for my or his box. That is silly. I gave him easy to check and rectify solutions. If you read the OP instead of getting all excited you could slam me you would have noticed he already tried the detents. My $0.02

ps I am going to post a new message that in the morning it gets light out. Just giving you a heads up so you can formulate a reason I am wrong. BTW in my line of work thats Hours:Minutes...LOL

PPS notice I didn't slam your post, nor did Roland slam anyones post but just added their knowledge My $0.02

[Roland V. Johnson]

Robby,keep my name out of this. I am already in enough hot water.

[TimH]

ps I am going to post a new message that in the morning it gets light out.

We have a forecast of clouds tomorrow....

[BorkRacing]

we have a forecast of clouds tomorrow....

lmao

[BorkRacing]

Robby,keep my name out of this. I am already in enough hot water.

Roland, you're a good guy and polite to boot.
Hope to see you at Mosport this year!

[john f]

John,
It seems no matter what I say you disagree. My gearbox goes into reverse but gets stuck if the reverse gear slips out of the fork. I cannot get it out by using the shifter rod but a screw driver will work just as the OP said. How do you know that is wrong for my or his box. That is silly. I gave him easy to check and rectify solutions. If you read the OP instead of getting all excited you could slam me you would have noticed he already tried the detents. My $0.02

ps I am going to post a new message that in the morning it gets light out. Just giving you a heads up so you can formulate a reason I am wrong. BTW in my line of work thats Hours:Minutes...LOL

PPS notice I didn't slam your post, nor did Roland slam anyones post but just added their knowledge My $0.02

Boy, chill out! If you look, I was referring to Problemchild's comment. Yes, I noticed that he tried the detent, as the statement in your post did not, but I am referring to the interlocks that are between the shift rods, not the detents. Two totally different items on the same shaft. If the detent groove in the rail is worn (they do wear), tightening up the detent spring will not position the rail in the correct position. A slight miss positioning of the 1-2 rail can move the 1-2/reverse interlock slightly. Maybe, just enough to cause the problem. When assembling the gear stack into the box, yes, it can slip off and not work, requiring disassembly and starting over. I bet it has happened to all of us at least once. If your fork is "slipping out" after the box is assembled, you have something totally wrong or worn out.
If you post correct information, I have no reason to disagree with it. It's when incorrect drivel is stated as fact that I disagree.


john f

[scotty82]

Wingmantim,

The Rev fork could be bent or possibly worn out .
If it worn past the limit ( .155 thick) the slider could be getting wedged on the Rev hub instead of sliding.
Another possibility is if the Rev rail has some how twisted in the bore just a hair , this will miss align the detentents and will make the rail stick

[dc]

Ok, thread cleaned up to remove the insanity that happened here last night. No need for that here on ApexSpeed, we're all friends, right?


Whew.

[stonebridge20]

Ok, thread cleaned up to remove the insanity that happened here last night. No need for that here on ApexSpeed, we're all friends, right?


Whew.

No little lighting bolts Doug? Lol !

[dc]

No little lighting bolts Doug? Lol !

Oh no, much worse.

[stonebridge20]

Oh no, much worse.

It's cabin fever Doug. I don't know about the other jokers in here but at least I have a valid excuse. I actually live in a cabin.

[E1pix]

That palace is Uge compared to our Westfailure!

Oh no, much worse.

Please assure us you didn't buy Old Sparky from The Green Mile.

< Gulp >

[stonebridge20]

That palace is Uge compared to our Westfailure!

The pic is deceiving. There's a whole larger wing behind that part of the house. 3bed 2 bath

[E1pix]

Regardless, it's a beaute.

All us artist types think of just such a studio base. Awesome.

[Keith Robinson]

My buddy Chuck has a Webster gearbox on his Formula Ford. It shifts easily into 1,2,3, and 4 as well as it goes easily into reverse. All shifts with minimal, even pressure as it should when rocking the car. Once in reverse, it is stuck and stuck solid. Rocked the car, rocked the car very, very hard and still stuck. Removed the rear cover and wedged the reverse selector out with a screw driver. It took way too much effort. Also removed the side detent spring and sprayed with penetrating oil hoping that the ball was sticking. Anytime the gearbox is shifted into reverse, it sticks. We have not driven this car and the previous owner was not much of a mechanic judging by the numerous other issues that we have corrected on this car. Any suggestions would be welcome. Is the idler gear in backwards, shift rod bent, shaft detent burred, shift fork hanging on something, shaft out of adjustment, detent ball burred, detent hole boogered, etc. Please help.

I overhauled a Mk 9 a couple of years ago from a 1975 VD. It has a very early 3 digit serial number transmission (very old!).
All kinds of shifting (or lack of shifting) problems. I had to remove all the selector rails, the shut out bullets (24 in the diagram) and ball bearings. I used a chain saw file, among other instruments to clear out the galleries in the housing.
The main problem however was the bullets (#24), I was amazed at how badly they had worn and not uniformly but at weird angles!
Transmission has worked well for two seasons now. Hope this and the other good advice on this thread helps you fix your problem.

[firehawk]

Hey all, this is Chuck. Time came over yesterday, and we took the trans apart. Found a few issues, but the reverse problem was the detent ball and spring were installed backwards. The spring was against the rail, and the ball was in the bottom of the hole. Basically, the spring was hanging up on the rail. Cleaned it all up and installed correctly, and all is fine.

Big thanks to Tim for all his help.

[Wingmantim]

Hey all, this is Chuck. Time came over yesterday, and we took the trans apart. Found a few issues, but the reverse problem was the detent ball and spring were installed backwards. The spring was against the rail, and the ball was in the bottom of the hole. Basically, the spring was hanging up on the rail. Cleaned it all up and installed correctly, and all is fine.

Big thanks to Tim for all his help.

And a big Thanks to Mike Sauce for pointing me in the right direction.