Swift 016 vs Ralt rt41

[Dee]

Hi Folks, Need some input, I've been racing a Ralt rt 41 for the past six years , thinking off switching to a 016 (for vintage only)
need some Pros and Cons.
Thanks,
Dee

[lowside67]

Hi Folks, Need some input, I've been racing a Ralt rt 41 for the past six years , thinking off switching to a 016 (for vintage only)
need some Pros and Cons.
Thanks,
Dee

Out of curiosity, where would an 016 be vintage legal?

-Mark

[Dee]

out of curiosity, where would an 016 be vintage legal?

-mark

svra

[bill gillespie]

svra

Dee,
10 years old...SVRA and HSR legal...

I raced a 41 before,I got my 16...

16....roomier....you can have a real good seat
More head and neck protection
Better Brakes
Very heavy steering at upper speeds
Not as nimble, but big downforce
Better parts availability
Stronger gearbox

41....not enough room for,a good seat
Driver head and neck more exposed
Nimble
Less steering effort at speed
Parts getting scarce
Smaller wheels mean smaller brakes
Careful with the gearbox

ymmv, but I would not go back to my 41

16 is safer, roomier, faster, better parts availability

Good luck,
Bill

[Dee]

Thanks Bill You confirmed my thoughts
DEE

[S Lathrop]

I have been an engineer for teams running both cars.

From an engineer's perspective in trying to get a driver performing well and happy, the 41` was way better than an 016. The 016 reminded me of the 008 when I had both cars to engineer. In the team I worked for the 016 was referred to as Shamoo the whale.

[bill gillespie]

I have been an engineer for teams running both cars.

From an engineer's perspective in trying to get a driver performing well and happy, the 41` was way better than an 016. The 016 reminded me of the 008 when I had both cars to engineer. In the team I worked for the 016 was referred to as Shamoo the whale.

after13 years the 016 is pretty well developed and optimized.... the set up is not like any of my other FA’s.
Again, ymmv....

[S Lathrop]

after13 years the 016 is pretty well developed and optimized.... the set up is not like any of my other FA’s.
Again, ymmv....

I should have made it clear that I only worked with the 016 when it first came out. It brought back memories of the 008 and the struggles we had getting that car working properly. I am certain that the 016 did evolve into a decent car. There were a lot of very talented people working to make the car good.

I found engineering work with the Indy lights, Lola T97 and the Dallara versions and spent many years doing that.

[bill gillespie]

I should have made it clear that I only worked with the 016 when it first came out. It brought back memories of the 008 and the struggles we had getting that car working properly. I am certain that the 016 did evolve into a decent car. There were a lot of very talented people working to make the car good.

I found engineering work with the Indy lights, Lola T97 and the Dallara versions and spent many years doing that.

Steve,
I am well familiar with your work, and hold you in high regard....
Ive only driven an 016 in the last few years, so it was well developed when I showed up....As a back marker, I’ve found it to be a very good car...It’s capability far exceeds my own...ie: it will do T1 at Road Atlanta, flat.....I cannot....lol !

Regards,
Bill Gillespie

[Joules5]

Vintage opens up a plethora of BOSS cars to choose from as well in the 016 price bracket.

In terms of parity in FA what is the current thinking between the pick of an 016, 014 the Tatus PM18 and latest generation F3, F4 cars? Thinking of moving out of my 008 into something else the above assuming I stay in SCCA and don't go vintage as well, as if I did I have a penchant for an older Chevron.

[Bob Wright]

If you’re thinking about a true FA car, you might want to take a look at what Firman Motorsports is producing for 2021- a true FA car with a Honda K20C turbo; 300 hp, reliable to ?? Miles (certified to 10,000 Km), reasonable pricing. It should have comparative performance with the 016 and the PM18.

[Lotus7]

If you’re thinking about a true FA car, you might want to take a look at what Firman Motorsports is producing for 2021- a true FA car with a Honda K20C turbo; 300 hp, reliable to ?? Miles (certified to 10,000 Km), reasonable pricing. It should have comparative performance with the 016 and the PM18.

Hi Bob. I’m assuming you aren’t officially speaking on behalf of Honda, but what does “certified to 10,000km” mean do you think?
A warranty? Guarantee? We’ve always mileaged your events as approx 300 miles/event, so that would be a 21 event engine; hmmm.

[Bob Wright]

No, I don’t represent HPD. The motor they’re using is the same as the one in the F3 and that it has been certified. By that I’m told by HPD that they tested it and barring abuse, HPD is confident it will run as advertised for 10,000 Km between services.

[bill gillespie]

No, I don’t represent HPD. The motor they’re using is the same as the one in the F3 and that it has been certified. By that I’m told by HPD that they tested it and barring abuse, HPD is confident it will run as advertised for 10,000 Km between services.

Ian,
HPD told me the same thing...very close to the street version guaranteed to 36k..... lower rpm with the turbo helps...turbo gives a real advantage on a hot day...,
BIll

[Joules5]

If you’re thinking about a true FA car, you might want to take a look at what Firman Motorsports is producing for 2021- a true FA car with a Honda K20C turbo; 300 hp, reliable to ?? Miles (certified to 10,000 Km), reasonable pricing. It should have comparative performance with the 016 and the PM18.

That would be very interesting and offer some real cost savings over my current Toyota rebuilds at 1,000 miles, but I can only find reference to the R1 a closed wheel Wolf/Radical competitor and it uses a Ford engine.

[MirlSwan]

Dee, I don’t think you’d be disappointed with a Swift 016. They’re great cars.

I don’t mean to hijack your thread. But, Bob

If you’re thinking about a true FA car, you might want to take a look at what Firman Motorsports is producing for 2021- a true FA car with a Honda K20C turbo; 300 hp, reliable to ?? Miles (certified to 10,000 Km), reasonable pricing. It should have comparative performance with the 016 and the PM18.

Since when did a 300hp turbo become a “true FA car”? Wow! That’s a lot more Hp than other “true FAs” have?!
Seems more like an entirely new car, being built to “FA rules” (not an F3 car. A car built to FA rules. Yet allowed to have a 300hp turbo Honda), that’s being added to run with FA in FRP only (for now)?
Unless we’re allowing turbos in “true FA” cars now? If that’s the case? I’ll build a real “true FA” powered by a turbo Toyota. 300hp. I’ll guarantee that combo to 20,000 kilometers.

[bill gillespie]

Dee, I don’t think you’d be disappointed with a Swift 016. They’re great cars.

I don’t mean to hijack your thread. But, Bob





Since when did a 300hp turbo become a “true FA car”? Wow! That’s a lot more Hp than other “true FAs” have?!
Seems more like an entirely new car, being built to “FA rules” (not an F3 car. A car built to FA rules. Yet allowed to have a 300hp turbo Honda), that’s being added to run with FA in FRP only (for now)?
Unless we’re allowing turbos in “true FA” cars now? If that’s the case? I’ll build a real “true FA” powered by a turbo Toyota. 300hp. I’ll guarantee that combo to 20,000 kilometers.

Hi Mirl,
While you’re at it, you could go ahead and turbo my 016, and take the weight back to 1420 per original design ????

[Bob Wright]

Ok, I probably misspoke. A true ‘Atlantic’ in most definitions ended with the 014. The 016 was built to a different standard. I define a true FA car as one built to the current FA rules, and that does not include the 016, F3 or others in the class; they are spec line cars. The Honda motor is an outlier and doesn’t meet the current rule- it is a spec line in the FA rules specifically for F3.

the Firman car is a completely new car built to FA rules with modern CFD design and construction. Is this so bad?

the Firman FA will be an offshoot if the R1. They announced it and had renderings at the FRP PRI winter meeting. I couldn’t find it in the web either. I’ll let them know.

[MirlSwan]

Ok, I probably misspoke. A true ‘Atlantic’ in most definitions ended with the 014. The 016 was built to a different standard. I define a true FA car as one built to the current FA rules, and that does not include the 016, F3 or others in the class; they are spec line cars. The Honda motor is an outlier and doesn’t meet the current rule- it is a spec line in the FA rules specifically for F3.

the Firman car is a completely new car built to FA rules with modern CFD design and construction. Is this so bad?

.

Bob, that was my point. This is a whole new car that Firman is in the process of designing. They've decided to use FA rules, but use a Honda Turbo.
Perhaps this could be a cool car? But, it is not an FA. It is another car that is really a significant departure from FA, yet being added to run with FA. A 300hp, or even a turbo, engine is not FA. It's a new class.
I agree that true FA ended with the 014.
If the thought is that this is the future of FA? Let's hope that dozens and dozens are sold for this club only based car, because it will instantly obsolete all other FAs.

FWIW- I can build a 014 with a Toyota Turbo, that would easily produce 300hp and go more than 10k miles between builds. But, that's another new discussion...

I won't continue to hijack Dee's thread. (BTW Dee, if you need more info on 016s? Let me know. I have 8 currently, and 4-014s..)
Bob, I'll see you at Sebring. I can be contact by PM, if anybody wants to discuss further with me?
I'm going to step away from the keyboard now and finish preparing racecars.
The best thing anybody with a racecar can do, is forget about all of the talk, typing, politics, different classes, combined classes... Just prepare your car and go race it. Anywhere. Let the chips fall where they may.