Cable Shifter question yet again

[Matt Clark]

I know this comes up now & then, but I have never really seen a solid answer as to what is needed to make it happen.

Right now, the rod from my shift lever itself is kind of obtrusive inside the cockpit (ie- digging into my right side) and the last straight to the hockey stick routes outside the chassis & makes bodywork at the back very difficult.

As I understand it, if I simply replace the hard tubes/joints of the linkage with a heavy enough Morse cable, I can go straight from the shifter to the hockey stick with a single cable, and still have the linear push/pull & rotation?

[Amon]

I know this comes up now & then, but I have never really seen a solid answer as to what is needed to make it happen.

Right now, the rod from my shift lever itself is kind of obtrusive inside the cockpit (ie- digging into my right side) and the last straight to the hockey stick routes outside the chassis & makes bodywork at the back very difficult.

As I understand it, if I simply replace the hard tubes/joints of the linkage with a heavy enough Morse cable, I can go straight from the shifter to the hockey stick with a single cable, and still have the linear push/pull & rotation?

Matt,

I remember when I first started racing seeing a cable operated clutch on a few older vee's, but not the actual
shift linkage. I would think that you would have a large amount of trouble engaging any gears with this effort.

Mark

[Matt Clark]

Matt,

I remember when I first started racing seeing a cable operated clutch on a few older vee's, but not the actual
shift linkage. I would think that you would have a large amount of trouble engaging any gears with this effort.

Mark

the Morse cables were used for years on Indycars & such as the actual gear selection cable, so I know it has been done there... but I have not seen anyone post pics of FVs with them yet. it may have to do with the VW gearbox difference. I know it could be tricky, but it would make my car much easier to deal with going forward.

[problemchild]

A morse cable cannot be any worse than a sloppy mechanical linkage with cheap worn out u-joints, as most FVs have. You are really only using 2 gears anyway.

However ..... the morse cable is only replacing the tubes so you still require the gear selector mechanism, which is the clumsey intrusive part in the cockpit. Building a non-clumsey compact version would be the hot ticket, but if easy and affordable, everyone would do it already.

The best option would be a linkage going rearward, starting under the engine, operated by solenoids controlled by push-button actuators in the cockpit. Lots of expense and bother to shift a few times per lap.

if the rod is the only issue, just increase the wall thickness and make a pretzel out of it.

[Amon]

Greg & Matt,

Brian and I have wondered about the possibilty of trying a sequential in an FV which would eliminate
the sloppiness you mentioned in your post. As with push button actuators, the cost would probably
be prohibited, especially for an entry level class that FV is supposed to be and trying to get reverse
would be interesting to see.

Mark

[Stumpthumper]

Take a look at this:
http://www.cableshift.com/C-S%20VT1/...01%20page.html

[Amon]

Take a look at this:
http://www.cableshift.com/C-S%20VT1/...01%20page.html

Interesting!

[veeten]

Greg
I used push pull solenoid on the 3,,4th shift with switch on steering wheel
I used a lock out for 2nd and reverse.
This was back in the day when Tech and Protest were
common .
A nice gentleman from NY questioned its legality.
So away it went!!

[Gary_T]

Take a look at this:
http://www.cableshift.com/C-S%20VT1/...01%20page.html

That is pretty similar to what I did in my Lotus Europa (rear shift gearbox with a stock pretzel-like rod linkage). 2 fairly heavy morse control cables (1 for fore-aft fork selection, 1 for rotational gate selection). I used a shifter from some 80's/90's dodge that had a cable shift. It's far too big to fit in a formula car nicely, the entire unit weighs a lot more than a rod setup, and I'm not a huge fan of the lack of feel.

I can't imagine using a single morse cable to get both axis of movement reliably, maybe with a heavy enough cable with almost no bends (ie - where a rod would work fine).

[problemchild]

Greg
I used push pull solenoid on the 3,,4th shift with switch on steering wheel
I used a lock out for 2nd and reverse.
This was back in the day when Tech and Protest were
common .
A nice gentleman from NY questioned its legality.
So away it went!!

That is why I suggested having the solenoid working on a linkage .... but I am not one for exploiting rules.
If FV shift linkages worked for 56 years with a lot of bigger guys than Matt, no reason it won't work now. If there is not room for the driver and gear linkage, then the car is too small. Two choices. Make the car bigger or don't shift gears

[FVRacer21]

That is pretty similar to what I did in my Lotus Europa (rear shift gearbox with a stock pretzel-like rod linkage). 2 fairly heavy morse control cables (1 for fore-aft fork selection, 1 for rotational gate selection). I used a shifter from some 80's/90's dodge that had a cable shift. It's far too big to fit in a formula car nicely, the entire unit weighs a lot more than a rod setup, and I'm not a huge fan of the lack of feel.

I can't imagine using a single morse cable to get both axis of movement reliably, maybe with a heavy enough cable with almost no bends (ie - where a rod would work fine).

This was the same system as used in my old Chevy Cavalier. Totally isolated any vibration yet still was tight and accurate. You might find a unit in a junkyard but I feel that it might be too large for your purposes.

for a compact shifter in the cockpit - take a look at a Crossle FF. Rather than the shaft swiveling with the lever - the shaft twists on a rod. Have to see if I can find a picture - easier to understand than my description.

Chris Z

[Matt Clark]

the morse cable is only replacing the tubes so you still require the gear selector mechanism, which is the clumsey intrusive part in the cockpit. Building a non-clumsey compact version would be the hot ticket, but if easy and affordable, everyone would do it already.

if the rod is the only issue, just increase the wall thickness and make a pretzel out of it.

in my particular case, the rod is kinda set up at an awkward angle thru the cockpit to pass inside the main rollhoop (and there is quite a bit of space to the rollbar too).
I was thinking that if I could replace the hard rod with a slightly more flexible cable & redo the pass-thru point, it would give me at least an inch (which would feel like ten).
also, towards the back of the car, the rod arcs outward around the zero-roll mount. this makes it almost impossible to put any rear bodywork on the car (which is the goal now). if I had a little more flexibility thru the length of the linkage, I could re-route it to the inside.

I can't imagine using a single morse cable to get both axis of movement reliably, maybe with a heavy enough cable with almost no bends (ie - where a rod would work fine).

that is kinda what I was thinking... something pretty beefy would almost be required. and my layout would be very straight. I am thinking/hoping that whatever bends would be needed will be subtle enough to work.
I do not have the car here at the moment, but I will try to get pics when I get it back this weekend to show better.

If FV shift linkages worked for 56 years with a lot of bigger guys than Matt, no reason it won't work now. If there is not room for the driver and gear linkage, then the car is too small. Two choices. Make the car bigger or don't shift gears

well to be fair, I have grown in width some since you last saw me... and you know how small the RTJ chassis is. lol

[Hardingfv32]

I would say that the Morse cable is not going to transfer the rotational motion. If it does it will have a springing quality to it that will require more motion from the shifter in the cockpit.

Brian

[Darren Brown]

My first Mysterian had a cable shifter. It was very bulky but worked well. It used two cables, large one for the fore and aft movement and a small one to rotate the hockey stick left to right. The shifter itself was mounted on a large metal box that housed the cables and always interfered with my leg.

The back of the transmission had a bracket for the smaller cable for the side to side movement and then the attachment for the larger cable for the fore and aft movement.

That is my experience with them.

[veeracer98]

I just replaced my u joints with borgeson joints from pegasus. Amazing difference. Hardly any movement to get reverse now.