FV disc brakes

[jpetillo]

FV is very healthy in a few areas in North America where locals have worked hard to keep it healthy. A huge part of that is keeping it in single-class grouping, or close to it. Anywhere else, the few FVs are basically moving chicanes for much faster cars in large Formula Alphabet and SR groups and It is not fun, nor particularly safe. Denying that is not unlike claiming the earth is flat. Positive delusional thoughts do nothing to make FV racing better, nor make the earth flat.

I don't recall seeing anyone denying that there are regions with low counts and bad groupings. This problem is not isolated to FV or even to open wheel cars. Agreed, limiting the classes in a grouping is key. That doesn't happen on it's own, and no it's not fun or safe to mix the groups. When the counts go down then you get grouped - sort of the name of the game. We know - it happened to us. We just did something about it. We're willing to try to help other regions grow. John

[Stumpthumper]

Every change in every class is met with concern, but this ship has sailed so can we please move forward?
I would like to hear more about how well the disc brakes work, what other kits are coming on-line, and other relevant and useful discussions.

[Steve Davis]

FWIW. Just because Varacins has produced a 'robust' disc conversion kit and has self tested that kit to verify it, that doesn't mean that there are NO OTHER OPTIONS. A quick google search turned up 3 possible candidates although only the first one specifically states ZERO OFFSET... and that only IMPLIES that it won't change the track width.. but it seems likely that it wouldn't. Might be worth a call or email to clarify the statement.
Personally, I don't plan to convert, but I'm putting this out there. The first listing SEEMS to be adequate - uses the standard spindle and bearings and includes a new master cylinder, but it does NOT mention the lug tap size/thread but the kit SAYS "includes necessary mounting hardware" .. so that would lead me to believe that it either includes lug bolts or should be compatible with standard lugs. It is also the most expensive of the 3, but is still WAY below the cost of the Varacins kit.

1).
https://www.mtmfg.com/part/view/this-is-the-front-disc-system-for-early-beetles-and-ghiasfits-1959-6?part=22-2880&gclid=CjwKCAiA4t_iBRApEiwAn-vt-xpw6x6gDl1-BdV0WwkBh2g9pK8nC9k8-QfETvx8dx_BhXhKmOVMmxoCpvQQAvD_BwE

2).
https://www.mechanicsurplus.com/prod...BoCL6wQAvD_BwE

3).
https://www.jbugs.com/product/22-2990.html?rrec=true



This is NOT a recommendation nor a claim that any of these kits are 'up to the task' of real racing on our Hoosier slick tires with considerably higher grip than street tires. But is does APPEAR that at least the first one might get it done.

If anyone decides to give one of them a shot or finds another kit that looks better, please post your results back on this thread.

[mikehinkle]

The first kit you listed might work.

The 2nd and 3rd kits are for a different wheel and cannot be used by the wide 5 bolt pattern wheels we run....

[ajpastore]

[QUOTE=
If anyone decides to give one of them a shot or finds another kit that looks better, please post your results back on this thread.
[/QUOTE]

Steve,
Here is some more info.
The first option in your reply is an EMPI kit. #22-2880
There are lots of sources and you can buy just the rotors if you wanted to come up with your own caliper bracket and caliper. I believe they weigh around 19 pounds.

The second and third options are really just later style ball joint rotors with special bearings to fit linkpin spindles. Like the ones you tried a few years back as a matter of fact.
Our wide 5 wheels are 205mm bolt circle so these won't work with our wheels.

That said, the 4 bolt wheels, available on VWs until mid 70s, (in 4" and 4.5 " width) and those rotors VW part# 113407075 with the special bearings, will fit on our cars. The offsets of the later style 4" and 4.5" help to get the track width where it needs to be.

AP

[Matt Clark]

The offsets of the later style 4" and 4.5" help to get the track width where it needs to be.

and I really hate to add this to the mix, but this is also something I have questioned once we looked at disc brake kits....
is it time to maybe allow the 4-bolt wheels so we can open up affordable brake kits (providing they still meet track width rules)?

[Garry Sharp]

I was just wondering what the disc brake kit options are at this point. I've seen the Speed Sport and Advantage systems. Anything else (cheaper) being developed?

[Hardingfv32]

I do not know if anyone else is developing an alternative.

Cheaper... I am pretty sure that is not going to happen. If you price the individual parts required to build a system for a SCCA legal FV, the total ends up in the range of $2500-3000.

Checkout Jamar Brakes and Coleman Racing Products to get an idea what the parts might cost.

Brian

[Jphoenix]

If you go with disc brakes, even with rear floating discs, you need to make sure your axle splines are not bent, I ended up buying one good used axle from Dietmar that was pretty straight and a new axle (empi) for about $250 because the three other axles I have are too run out for the discs. I’ll likely buy another new empi for the left rear soon, but it’s kind of ok for now.

[Garry Sharp]

Please excuse me if I am being ignorant here, but after reading all the posts and looking at websites etc, it seems that if 4 bolt VW wheels were allowed everybody with a FV could have 4 wheel disc brakes for about $500.

Garry

[Jnovak]

Please excuse me if I am being ignorant here, but after reading all the posts and looking at websites etc, it seems that if 4 bolt VW wheels were allowed everybody with a FV could have 4 wheel disc brakes for about $500.

Garry

is this actually true?

[Stumpthumper]

There are people running the cheap EMPI setup here in the Northeast that still allow the 5 wide wheels with no track change. They are heavy, but the poeple who have them seem happy with them.

[Garry Sharp]

Since I hadn't seen anything written about people using those kits, I figured they were just too heavy even try. The 4 bolt discs look a LOT lighter.

Garry

Front: Empi# 22-2986.......................$204.63
Rear: Empi# 22-2862........................$204.57

[Steve Davis]

Just FYI to anyone wondering ..... the 4 bolt wheels that these kits are intended to work with are the later model VW wheels. They are considerably HEAVIER than our wide 5 wheels. That is one of the kits (front only) that I tested back in 2006. It DOES work acceptably, but I'm not sure they would be competitive at the pointy end of the field .. unless EVERYONE was running the same kit.

I also happen to have a couple or 3 of those 4 bolt wheels available for a modest sum if you're interested .. not to mention the KIT that they work with. FREE for anyone that wants to test them. (although not currently legal)

[ajpastore]

I think I can clarify with some solid information, the feasibility of using the later style four bolt wheels and the early VW brake rotors,for the front of our cars. I decided to try them out at a test day at NHMS in May and then additional tracks after that.

Here are the main components of the setup I used, front only:

VW Brake rotors- Part#113407075
Empi conversion bearings inner and outer- 17-2795 and 17-2796
Wilwood Single piston Sliding Calipers-120-3277
Wilwood BP20 Pads- #150-9765K
Custom Caliper Bracket- Me
Used 15x4J, four bolt wheels from Craigslist
Changed front master cylinder from 5/8" to 3/4"

Rotor/Hub
The rotors came on Karman Ghias and are also used as popular conversions for later bugs and others- Beetle 1967-1979, Beetle Cabrio 1967-1979, Karmann Ghia 1967-1974, Type 3 1967-1970. These are the same rotors that come in the Empi conversion kit. I bought that as well to confirm.
The rotors weigh 13.8 pounds with bearings. The Brembo version of this rotor weighs one pound more. (it has a centering ring in the casting)
There are also other manufactures of this brake rotor under the VW part#113407075 but these are the ones I used.

Wheels
The 15x4J four bolt wheels were standard on the Type 1 Beetle 67-73 . They have a greater offset than the wide 5 wheels which help to get the the front within track rules.
The 4" wheels weigh 15.4-15.6 pounds
After 1973 they went to 4.5" wide wheels. These range from 16.4 to 16.8 pounds (of the ones I found). They come in many offsets also, so I don't have solid data on all of them but the ones I found have even more offset in the direction of narrowing the track.

Calipers
I chose the caliper since it was the lightest caliper that was cost effective and sliding. Since the rotors were not going to be floating, the need for a low drag solution was obvious.
The caliper weighs ~2.2 pounds loaded with pads. It is has a special design that incorporates the pins that the caliper slides on so there is no need for heavy caliper bracket.

There are many pad compounds available from Wilwood and other sources.

Other
Caliper bracket ~0.6 pounds

The Empi conversion bearings allow VW#113407075 brake rotor to work with the link pin spindle. I have not sourced another bearing set so they are only available from Empi. It seems they use a special race along with a more standard bearing center.

Testing and beyond.....
First, I did a test day at NHMS. This track has two heavy braking zones and couple lighter braking zones. I got the balance front to rear set up pretty well in the first session after bedding in the pads and rotors. There were no issues and after I stopped looking at them every time I stepped on the brakes, they were perfectly normal and even. I have always been fortunate to have good brakes due to my brother so they felt exactly like properly adjusted and setup drums with Carbotechs. Having discs on the front and drums in the rear (Carbotechs) did not seem to matter. They all came up to temperature and worked well.

This being a test day, I was concerned I wasn't using the brakes as hard as I might in racing conditions and felt they should really be tested as much as possible. Mostly for durability but also to see if they were competitive with the drum brakes. Since I'm not made of money, and hate the idea of beating up my car, engine and tires, for what I'm not sure, I decided to risk a protest and take them to the next race on my schedule. It seemed most were as curious as I was to see how they would hold up and perform. It is obvious from the added weight of the wheels, there is no performance advantage and the track width and entire brake package weight meet the rules as they sit today. Other than slightly ugly four bolt wheels, it wasn't a big deal. Off to the Glen Majors to see if they were competitive, and get more data for comparison.

Practice was crappy for me but the brakes worked fine. Q1 was also crappy...we changed the motor. Q2 was standard Glen drama. I shot myself in the foot and came in early thinking the black flag ate up the session time only to find out they stopped the clock and let everybody out for a few more hot laps. Brakes again worked great.
Race 1- A couple full course yellows broke up the race but I managed fastest race lap which put me second on the grid for the next race....yay! Brake performance was flawless and never even thought about them.
Race 2- So one of the rotors I bought came out of the box with about 0.008" run-out. I used that rotor up to this point on the right front in an effort to see if the sliding calipers were doing their job and to see if I noticed any lack of performance. I had another straight rotor, a Brembo, that I thought I should use that was already bedded in with the pads I was using in an effort to go faster...well that ended up being another shot to my foot. I think I left the bearings a bit too loose or the pad bedding wasn't sufficient because every time I stepped on the brakes, the car pulled hard to the left. It didn't help me go any faster for sure but I managed fourth in the race. I didn't notice a lack of straight-line speed or acceleration in either race. Data shows exactly the same top speeds with no draft as always and fast sweepers also show the same speeds. So brake drag is nill. My laptimes were equal to previous years. I can say the brakes performed perfectly other than me changing to an unknown rotor for the last race out of greed. But Watkins Glen isn't the most demanding circuit on brakes and there is lots of time for things to cool off before braking events. I felt it best to leave them on for Thompson, the next race on schedule.

I came to Thompson with a new disc rotor...another $30 one from Rockauto to match the other side. Long story short, 3 qualifying sessions and 2 races, one very long, hot and grueling 27 lap race with no full course yellows and the brakes performed flawlessly. I didn't even pull the pads to look at them all weekend, no adjustments, nothing. Same pads I started with at NHMS.

Bottom line
This is one example of the four bolt wheels allowing a very cost effective, readily available from many sources, "spirit of the class" and competitive disc brake option for the front of our cars. The only part you can't just buy, and have to make is the caliper bracket. Also, wheels are used so locating and buying them isn't as easy as click and ship, but not any harder than buying wide 5s. This setup, as I ran it, including the 2 wheels, cost under $400. This is just whats on the car and not including all the other stuff I tried, junk I bought, and the spares. I bought two other 4" wide wheels for the rain tires also not included in the under $400 cost. ( at $20 each)
The 4" wide wheels would, in my opinion, be preferable due to being closer in weight to the wide 5s. There are many 4.5" wheels available as well which also offer favorable offsets but they are also heavier.


Pros
*The weight of the rotor itself (13.8 pounds with bearings) is very close to the lighter drums available. My drum and backing plate loaded with shoes is 19.2 pounds, 14.0 for the drum itself with bearings. So rotating mass wise with the wheel, may be equal to some of the heavier drums people are using and not such a disadvantage.
*Not very expensive
*Competitive
*Available from many sources*VW Parts make up the bulk of the business end of this solution.
*This setup meets the 52.5" front track width rule and the rest of the disc brake rule as written.


Cons
*Have to buy new wheels.
*The extra 3 pounds of the wheels over the wide 5s is tough to swallow. Rotating mass is our enemy.
*No rear solution tested yet- There is a rear 1 piece rotor from the Type 4 that is used on disc conversions for swing-axles. Formula First uses them, so we should be able to as well. But they are a very heavy 19 pounds, and I don't know if the sliding calipers can make all that movement in our rear, often bent axles not drag the brakes. Also, the Porsche 914 had a separate hub and disc hat setup that is lighter and not as expensive as it sounds. But I'm done experimenting this year.


For the record, I sent a request to the CRB to allow the 4" wide, four bolt wheels to simplify adding disc brakes to our cars. They are carefully deliberating the potential rule change since the idea of a different wheel would be a radical change and may further muddy the options available. It hasn't been shot down yet...


I hope this report answers some questions for people that are curious. It's difficult just to get ourselves to the race track much less spend money testing and the time to develop these things. I really wanted to get answers to the questions that we all speculated on but rarely get the opportunity to try.

Andy P.
FV#75

[Steve Davis]

Andy,
Thanks for your thorough post on a well tested "kit" for disc brakes. I think the CRB *SHOULD* allow the 4 bolt 4J wheels too. I'll submit a letter in support of that. I'll also mention that they should NOT require them in sets of 4 since that would force the rear to be converted as well. I think the option of leaving drums on the rear should remain part of the deal.

[Ed Womer]

Andy,

Great job doing this! After 30+ years of vee racing I was just tired and feed up with the BS of working on the brakes. Yes it is not a lot to do once you figure it out but the cost of brake shoes makes the one time cost to switch well worth it. I am glad that you figured out this approach since it appears to be easy to perform.

Ed

[Garry Sharp]

It's good to know those calipers work well. They open up more possibilities because of the narrow profile of the anvil side.

Garry

[fvracerone1]

As I purvey the differences in the class rules throughout the world, I can only believe that disc brakes will only liquify. the class. The acceptance of disc brakes will drive a huge wedge between the owners of SCCA Vees to consider retrofitting their cars to Vintage.
SCCA has in my mind did this class a huge disservice by allowing disc brakes.


FV18

[B Farnham]

As I purvey the differences in the class rules throughout the world, I can only believe that disc brakes will only liquify. the class. The acceptance of disc brakes will drive a huge wedge between the owners of SCCA Vees to consider retrofitting their cars to Vintage.
SCCA has in my mind did this class a huge disservice by allowing disc brakes.


FV18

Why? Because it's not the way that it's always been? If that's the case there should be a petition to have the fan shrouds brought back.

Its been proven over and over again this year that the discs aren't an advantage. The vast majority of the races this year have been won by cars with Drums.

There are 60 cars on track this weekend between the NEFV and challenge cup, the class is in great shape and improving its numbers in areas of the country.

[Matt Clark]

As I purvey the differences in the class rules throughout the world, I can only believe that disc brakes will only liquify. the class. The acceptance of disc brakes will drive a huge wedge between the owners of SCCA Vees to consider retrofitting their cars to Vintage.
SCCA has in my mind did this class a huge disservice by allowing disc brakes.


FV18

in what way does looking at the international class differences liquefy US FV?

who exactly in SCCA FV is considering retrofitting to Vintage?
I have not heard of anyone at all doing that, and if they are, they aren't remotely competitive in the "modern" trim. we can't handicap the entire class because of a couple theoretical drivers who are gonna run Vintage anyway.

when you talk to people at the track currently racing, and especially on the FV USA Facebook page, I would wager *most* people want disc brakes. all the newer or younger FV people, and even more and more veterans now, are tired of messing with drums... or paying the crazy amounts for good drums & shoes.

[fvracerone1]

I appreciate your opinion,

When I started racing V's in the 70s every country had the same set of rules and specs. Differences were tires, Now I see big rims, big tires,different sets of rules per series. IMHO, most young racers don't want to start in a Vee. Days of dragging your car to work and leaving after work on Friday are gone. Lot of people utilize race shops to prep and drive Once people start winning w/disc brakes the push to be competetive will drive the modest income drivers away. "It's no fun if you can't win". The largest class in VSCDA is FV and the numbers are growing. Treaded racing Hoosiers that last a season and motors that redline at 6500,breed longer lives. Every time the rules allow a variance from the norm, numbers will dwindle. How is Formula 1st doing? Those cars converted took away from FV field numbers. Just my opinion.

[Amon]

Andy,

Great job doing this! After 30+ years of vee racing I was just tired and feed up with the BS of working on the brakes. Yes it is not a lot to do once you figure it out but the cost of brake shoes makes the one time cost to switch well worth it. I am glad that you figured out this approach since it appears to be easy to perform.

Ed

I have to agree with Ed and after nearly 25 years of adjusting brakes, I'm looking forward to some day adding discs to the front of my Vee. We just raced this past weekend at PIRC and the biggest PITA was adjusting the brakes because they become inconsistent if you don't look after them. As mentioned, there doesn't appear to be a big advantage with discs, just less maintenance during the race weekend and maybe a liittle more consistant brake pedal, but the braking distance appears to be similiar. Because of no great advantage, the urge to change just isn't there so it might take ten years before the majority of the class converts and that's okay.

Mark

[Matt Clark]

When I started racing V's in the 70s every country had the same set of rules and specs. Differences were tires, Now I see big rims, big tires,different sets of rules per series. IMHO, most young racers don't want to start in a Vee.

I think that is one of the reasons why we NEED to update to discs.
People, and especially kids now, want the fancy & flashier cars. No one new wants what a US-spec FV has remained at... the rest of the world has already learned this, hence their updates.
As an example, it is absolutely insane that SCCA has decided to push F4 as the next step after karts for literal kids. It is downright scary to watch them at times... but those are the fancy & flashy cars that the kids & their Dads want.

Once people start winning w/disc brakes the push to be competetive will drive the modest income drivers away

The problem is now, top-level drum brake setups are getting too expensive for normal racers, and require continuous large expense to run them.
If we can get reasonable disc brake setups (like Andys post and some other things being worked on), the disc brakes will be only slightly more expense initially over drums, but massively cheaper in the long run.

Treaded racing Hoosiers that last a season and motors that redline at 6500,breed longer lives.

Yep. We see the same in Challenge Cup. the Falken Tires last 2-3 years, and engine rebuilds are down because of the decreased RPMs.

Every time the rules allow a variance from the norm, numbers will dwindle. How is Formula 1st doing? Those cars converted took away from FV field numbers.

I would honestly put that more towards timing & demographics. FST came out in a time when FV was still enjoying very large participation & had a lot of long-term FV racers. Now that FV has significantly dropped off & those long-term racers have left, we are back to my point of new people coming in wanting better cars.
Now in with Challenge Cup, Canadian F1200 & a rather large number of new drivers in New England, there is lots of interest in updated cars. I would wager that if you tallied all the drivers that want to update vs. do not want to update, that update interest would win. And that is not considering those who are not in the class yet, but are waiting for things to progress.

[problemchild]

In our world today, people are too lazy or stupid to do simple tasks that previous generations accepted as life. They buy an app so that they can save some time, which they undoubtedly spend on their phone. That attitude has invaded our racing. For only the price of 2 1/2 entry fees (for one end) or 5 entry fees (for the whole car), FV racers can save 20 mins per weekend, which they can spend on much more useful tasks.

The class is in a palliative state, so right or wrong, it won't make any difference. For every unnecessary rule change, we lose 5% of the community, but we gain 2% because they like the change, but another 5% get too old, or cannot pass a physical ..... so the decline just continues, regardless of good or bad decisions. Fortunately, when in a palliative state, some people respond well to good care, positive environment and passion, prolonging their existence when others don't. There seem to be 2 FV groups in the NE who have brought care, positivity, and passion to maintain a healthy racing scene. Good job!

[jjflip]

As I purvey the differences in the class rules throughout the world, I can only believe that disc brakes will only liquify. the class. The acceptance of disc brakes will drive a huge wedge between the owners of SCCA Vees to consider retrofitting their cars to Vintage.
SCCA has in my mind did this class a huge disservice by allowing disc brakes.


FV18

The class must to evolve. When trying to sell this class to anyone under 50 years old what kind of reaction will you get when you tell them we use drum brakes? Drivers die (that's terrible to say, i know) ... but the cars can run for decades to come. I want my son to drive my car some day...he doesn't know what a drum brake is, much less how to service it properly.

[jjflip]

Andy,

I can say after racing wheel to wheel with you at Thompson there is no doubt you could out brake me everywhere. I was using green Carbotechs and I think I may have been stomping on my brake pedal with both feet at some stages!
Good job my friend!

Jeff

[problemchild]

I want my son to drive my car some day...he doesn't know what a drum brake is, much less how to service it properly.

I expect your son would learn about drum brakes from elders and friends, just as he will learn about kingpins, linkpins, zero-roll, adjusting timing, adjusting droop, setting steering box play, and a hundred other unique and charming elements of racing FV.

It is fine to embrace disc brakes and be willing to pay thousands of dollars for the opportunity, but this argument is humorous. Putting 1950s technology on a car based on 1930s technology does not make for 2020 technology.

[Matt Clark]

This setup, as I ran it, including the 2 wheels, cost under $400.

It is fine to embrace disc brakes and be willing to pay thousands of dollars for the opportunity, but this argument is humorous. Putting 1950s technology on a car based on 1930s technology does not make for 2020 technology.

I agree the $2500-3500 kits are obnoxious, but you are overlooking the fact that people are working on & pushing for more inexpensive kits. And you are hugely underestimating how much the drum brakes get laughed at & dismissed by the younger kids looking at FV. We see it almost weekly in Challenge Cup with all the attention & marketing the group has done.
Disc brakes (inexpensive, but quality ones) are a MUST at this point for the class to continue getting new participants.

[GrahamLoughead35]

A lot of people say we need to appeal to young people in the class and this will be done with disc brakes. But when was the last person a young person 30 or under that entered the class for multiple years that was NOT a second generation driver. I cannot think of anyone.

[Matt Clark]

A lot of people say we need to appeal to young people in the class and this will be done with disc brakes. But when was the last person a young person 30 or under that entered the class for multiple years that was NOT a second generation driver. I cannot think of anyone.

Aside from a few of us that have had funding, heres a mixed list with those not able to do multiple years yet due to funding (but still pursuing FV) in Challenge Cup alone...
Myself, Barrett Kingsborough, Matt Garwood, Ryan Donaghy, Ian Hornish, Makayla Marks + Ashley Graaf. I am sure I am forgetting some, and that is not including the several new kids in Canada right now. And there are a few more newbies working on Challenge Cup stuff for next year yet.

Another way of looking at it, is not that "we arent getting younger people, so how important are disc brakes?"... but you need to ask WHY they arent coming to FV. Well, we literally have, and the brakes + old tech is one of the first things they mention.

[Garry Sharp]

To me, dates, percentages, whether you SHOULD be able to work on drum brakes etc doesn't matter. They are legal now and if somebody is happier with their racing experience by changing to discs, they should do it if they can. Some comments on here insinuate that if you change to discs because you don't want to work on drums anymore, you shouldn't be racing. That's ridiculous.

Here is something I'm working on. Those are the $88.00 EMPI hub/rotors with about 4 lbs. each removed. I am working on the caliper bracket.



Garry

[S Lathrop]

To me, dates, percentages, whether you SHOULD be able to work on drum brakes etc doesn't matter. They are legal now and if somebody is happier with their racing experience by changing to discs, they should do it if they can. Some comments on here insinuate that if you change to discs because you don't want to work on drums anymore, you shouldn't be racing. That's ridiculous.

Here is something I'm working on. Those are the $88.00 EMPI hub/rotors with about 4 lbs. each removed. I am working on the caliper bracket.



Garry

You might rethink your caliper choice. That caliper did not work all that well on a F1000, and we ended up with a FFsize caliper and a lot better brake performance. A LD19 size caliper would be good for a FV or maybe a even bit too much. The choice of pad material is very critical and really can make a big difference in performance.

[Garry Sharp]

This particular hub has very little clearance between the wheel mounting surface and the rotor in order to be "zero offset". The first caliper I tried was a 2 piston Wilwood that looks very similar to the LD-19, but it wouldn't fit in the available gap there. The GP320 and the Floating Wilwood do fit.

Garry

[Stumpthumper]

This particular hub has very little clearance between the wheel mounting surface and the rotor in order to be "zero offset". The first caliper I tried was a 2 piston Wilwood that looks very similar to the LD-19, but it wouldn't fit in the available gap there. The GP320 and the Floating Wilwood do fit.

Garry

Gary, If the trimming of the rotor/hub work, what type of labor/cost is involved? It's looking great so far.

[Ed Womer]

That sure looks nice and if it has no offset and the caliper chosen is less than $100 each so the cost per corner would be less than $250 with bearings?

Sure looks like the way to go!

Ed

[Garry Sharp]

The machining is the variable. As you know, machine shops don't like to set up to make small quantities. It took me a while to find one that would even do it. In addition to the removal of the material you see, I got them to take .25" off the diameter of the rear rotors. I paid $300 for everything but they did a really good job. Now the rotors have to be tuned down from .38" to .25" which is the maximum thickness for the calipers so some more weight will come off with that.

It's been kind of fun.

Garry

[Garry Sharp]

Rotor now turned to .26"


Out of the box:



Now:

[jpetillo]

Gary, nice work - it's great to see what you're doing. Can't wait to see the end result.

Regarding other comments on this thread, for some reason we are getting young people joining FV in the Northeast. We also have large FV fields (26 last weekend - not our biggest field of the year). 6 of 8 FV students this year were young folks and are now new FV racers. Check out last week's podium pictures on the North East Formula Vee Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/nefv...f=group_header. I think anyone would rather "adjust" disc brakes (since it's no work) than adjust drums, but we don't really get much of a pushback on the drums at all from folks wanting to join FV. Drums may be a detractor, but not a significant one to growing our fields and we're not seeing a correlation with age where we are.

Anyway, we have what we have for rules at this time and FV allows discs, so the arguments for discs no longer needs to be made.

Gary, best of luck working out the details with your setup! John

[Stumpthumper]

Gary, nice work - it's great to see what you're doing. Can't wait to see the end result.

Regarding other comments on this thread, for some reason we are getting young people joining FV in the Northeast. We also have large FV fields (26 last weekend - not our biggest field of the year). 6 of 8 FV students this year were young folks and are now new FV racers. Check out last week's podium pictures on the North East Formula Vee Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/nefv...f=group_header. I think anyone would rather "adjust" disc brakes (since it's no work) than adjust drums, but we don't really get much of a pushback on the drums at all from folks wanting to join FV. Drums may be a detractor, but not a significant one to growing our fields and we're not seeing a correlation with age where we are.

Anyway, we have what we have for rules at this time and FV allows discs, so the arguments for discs no longer needs to be made.

Gary, best of luck working out the details with your setup! John

Agreed. It would have been nice for the CRB to clarify the 4 bolt wheel question, which remains unclear by their response to APastore's letter and the current wording of the GCR.