Timed Races

[mmi16]

The Runoff's and now I am seeing Majors are stating their races as X number of laps or 40 minutes.

My understanding of timed races is that when the Leader crosses the finish line AFTER the designated time then becomes the winner.

What I saw in Runoff's races that ended up being Timed was that the winner had a winning times of LESS than 40 minutes.

The Rolex 24 Hour race isn't over when the leader crosses the line at 23 hours 59 minutes and 55 seconds - why should SCCA timed races end BEFORE the designated time ?

[Terry Hanushek]

The Runoff's and now I am seeing Majors are stating their races as X number of laps or 40 minutes.

My understanding of timed races is that when the Leader crosses the finish line AFTER the designated time then becomes the winner.

That is the way timed races work whether there is an alternative number of laps or not.

What I saw in Runoff's races that ended up being Timed was that the winner had a winning times of LESS than 40 minutes.

The Rolex 24 Hour race isn't over when the leader crosses the line at 23 hours 59 minutes and 55 seconds - why should SCCA timed races end BEFORE the designated time ?

I'm not certain which race(s) you are that you are referencing. I do recall that there were a couple or three races became timed races behind the safety car. And in at least one instance (possibly FP) I had the impression that the race ended short of the time limit.

I cannot speak to any specific race at the Runoffs but the Chief Steward / Operating Steward has the authority to stop a race anytime after half distance (GCR 6.7.1.C). If there is a safety car situation which cannot be cleared before the time limit expires, the checkered flag can be displayed early to save time and reduce the number of laps run behind the safety car.

HTH

Terry

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Are they starting the clock when the first car leaves the grid?
Is it an allocated time?

[Terry Hanushek]

Are they starting the clock when the first car leaves the grid?
Is it an allocated time?

Normally the clock for a timed race is started when the green flag is displayed.

Terry

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Normally the clock for a timed race is started when the green flag is displayed.

Terry

I agree but I'm not sure these are really timed events. I know our region starts the clock when we leave grid for all sessions. Usually not an issue - laps are met before time runs out....

Glancing at the GCR it talks about lap events or timed events. I think these are all lap count events with a total session time at the discretion of the stewards....

It's about running the events on schedule..

[Terry Hanushek]

I agree but I'm not sure these are really timed events. I know our region starts the clock when we leave grid for all sessions. Usually not an issue - laps are met before time runs out....

Glancing at the GCR it talks about lap events or timed events. I think these are all lap count events with a total session time at the discretion of the stewards....

It is normal for the time of practice and qualifying sessions to start when the cars leave the grid. It is unusual (but not impossible) for time to start when the cars leave the grid for a race.

It is interesting to note that the GCR addresses lap races and timed races but not a combination of the two (xx laps or yy minutes). As a steward I really dislike these combined races because of the uncertainty that it creates for both competitors and officials. Our region does not use the combined races and depends on the operating steward to ensure that the event remains on schedule.

It's about running the events on schedule..

Yep

Terry

[RobLav]

We had races in NER when time starts when cars leave the grid. Each group gets allotted the same specific time. If a group fubars the start or messes around on a warm up lap, they own the time.

[mmi16]

Specific race - F500

Checkered after 22 laps - Steve Thompson's winning total time was 39:19.759 according to MyLaps.

[Fred Michael]

At Mid Ohio Runnoffs the time starts when you pass the Finish line on the pace lap since the start is on the backstretch.
The race is X number of laps, UNLESS you hit the time limit before you have reached that number of laps.

[skiingusa]

In practice and quals, the time starts as the cars enter the course. For a timed race, the timer starts when the first car crosses the start/finish line at the green flag. The finish of a timed race is when the lead car crosses the start/finish after time has expired. However, in time-critical events, this time may be adjusted. It is a judgement call sometimes as the only way to predict when this might occur is based off the previous laps of the leader. If, for example, the leader has slowed way down up until the 1 to go call (white flag), the call may come to checker the leader on the next lap. But then if the leader speeds up, the checker may come early.

As already mentioned, the chef steward has the ability to checker early.

[Steve Demeter]

The only reason for SCCA club races going timed is if one is running long and in order to stay on schedule.

Say there is a prolonged FCY. Cutting the race of after a time limit allows the guys in the following races to start on time.

Also, most tracks charge an arm and leg if the day goes past a certain time.

[mmi16]

At Mid Ohio Runnoffs the time starts when you pass the Finish line on the pace lap since the start is on the backstretch.
The race is X number of laps, UNLESS you hit the time limit before you have reached that number of laps.

^Obviously not right

Specific race - F500

Checkered after 22 laps - Steve Thompson's winning total time was 39:19.759 according to MyLaps.

Must mean 40 is marked down to 39.

[John Nesbitt]

The GCR sets out a procedure for scoring a race once checkered. It says almost nothing about setting the race distance and method of timing, and nothing at all about the decision on when to checker.

Event supps establish the race distance and/or time and timing method. (The default is that the timer starts when the first car takes the Green.)

In my experience working races across the country, event officials try very hard to give competitors their full allotment of track time/laps. No steward will checker a race early without good reason. Many circumstances may cause him/her to do so.

Remember that the operating steward is working in real time, with the information immediately available, and sometimes with only seconds in which to make a decision about a Black/Red/Checker.

Certainly, there have been times that I have made operational decisions and better/more complete information surfaced later. However, that information was not available at the moment when I had to make a decision.

[BLS]

"Checkered after 22 laps - Steve Thompson's winning total time was 39:19.759 according to MyLaps."

Perhaps "Mylaps" timing is not the same as the SCCA time?

[mmi16]

"Checkered after 22 laps - Steve Thompson's winning total time was 39:19.759 according to MyLaps."

Perhaps "Mylaps" timing is not the same as the SCCA time?

In as much as MyLaps is the current trade name for the AMB timing system that SCCA uses ?????

[glm34]

The biggest problem I have experienced is the run groups in front of me not playing nice, I.e. SRF SM. Being in the last run group my group usually gets screwed because of the event running behind. I have had two races at Mid-O that were 8 and 9 laps! It really sucks waiting all day and being on the track for such a short period.

[problemchild]

In as much as MyLaps is the current trade name for the AMB timing system that SCCA uses ?????

I am not understanding the problem. Are you suggesting that we should not use the process of "X laps or Y mins, whichever comes first", or just venting because your driver got "cheated" out of a result when an official shorted the race a lap. As painful as it sometimes is, I think it is understandable, and expected, that once a race is into its 10th-plus minute of overtime, the officials are looking for an exit strategy. They almost surely are behind schedule and have messes to clean up.

What I also expect however, is that the officials make every effort to show the last lap flag. Nothing sucks more than being strategically located for the win, only to see an early checker.

[BLS]

"In as much as MyLaps is the current trade name for the AMB timing system that SCCA uses ????? "

I was not stating it was wrong, just the question.

I know for a fact it is not always correct. At least not a couple years ago. The data published online was off for reasons unknown. I am not saying it was off in this case.

[farrout]

One of the reasons we went to a timed race was that in a mixed Formula Group for a Regional, the slower cars might get lapped a few times and get their race reduced by those laps. With a timed race, everyone gets their full amount of track time.

[Terry Hanushek]

Specific race - F500

Checkered after 22 laps - Steve Thompson's winning total time was 39:19.759 according to MyLaps.

I have no particular insight into the F500 race but there have may have been some confusion at the end of the race.

The official results show that Steven Thompson completed 22 laps and the overall time of the race was 39:19.759 (same as MyLaps). However, if you watch the F500 video, you will see that the announcers were surprised when the checkered flag was displayed and the results display at the end of the video showed showed Steven Thompson completing 23 laps.

While the results are inconsistent with the supps they may not be telling the whole story.

Terry

[mmi16]

I am not understanding the problem. Are you suggesting that we should not use the process of "X laps or Y mins, whichever comes first", or just venting because your driver got "cheated" out of a result when an official shorted the race a lap. As painful as it sometimes is, I think it is understandable, and expected, that once a race is into its 10th-plus minute of overtime, the officials are looking for an exit strategy. They almost surely are behind schedule and have messes to clean up.

What I also expect however, is that the officials make every effort to show the last lap flag. Nothing sucks more than being strategically located for the win, only to see an early checker.

I have no problem with timed races. What I am questioning is a 40 minute timed race ending in 39 minutes + and a lap short of full race distance.

To my mind if for whatever the reasons, a race ended a lap (or more) short and the race time was 40 minutes and 1 second I would have no problem.

I don't believe shorting the F500 field the final lap they 'should' have had changed any final positions. The point is if you are stating that 40 minutes is the race length, then the checker flies for the leader when they cross the finish line AFTER 40 minutes has expired - not before.

[Peter Olivola]

If I might suggest, your contribution to fixing the problem you perceive is entirely within your own hands. As an experienced competitor you would most likely find your participation in the stewards program welcome. Contact your Executive Steward.

I have no problem with timed races. What I am questioning is a 40 minute timed race ending in 39 minutes + and a lap short of full race distance.

To my mind if for whatever the reasons, a race ended a lap (or more) short and the race time was 40 minutes and 1 second I would have no problem.

I don't believe shorting the F500 field the final lap they 'should' have had changed any final positions. The point is if you are stating that 40 minutes is the race length, then the checker flies for the leader when they cross the finish line AFTER 40 minutes has expired - not before.