Carb question

[2Dogs]

Hi all, I took my new to me car to my first event this weekend and learned a lot, mainly that I still have some work to do to get it to run properly. It was the local autocross, and my first opportunity to get it warmed up and drive it.

I'm having a bit of trouble with a flooded engine, I think. The car starts rough and takes some coaxing to run. After a minute or so it gets worse and cuts out, then won't crank until it has sat for quite a while. Have a lot of soot in the exhaust.

I took the carburetor off and cleaned it. Made sure the needle valve is clean and working. Didn't rebuild as I don't have a kit yet, so just took things apart and cleaned real good. I didn't mess with the jets.

I notice that the choke has been removed and there are holes where the bar holding the choke flap was located. Is it essential that these are plugged? I'd assume these open hole will mess with the air flow, but is it bad enough to flood the engine?

Also, any advice on the rough idle problem would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

[killerken53]

Which engine and which carb? Are you running a mechanical or electrical fuel pump?

[Chris Elwell]

I notice that the choke has been removed and there are holes where the bar holding the choke flap was located. Is it essential that these are plugged? I'd assume these open hole will mess with the air flow, but is it bad enough to flood the engine?


Thanks,
Paul

Paul, I've run my car with those holes open for a couple years. It's not going to flood your engine by any means.

[FV90]

Paul, check your email I may have noticed something

[BLS]

Paul,

Since your description is at start/idle, we'll ignore conditions that might occur on the track.

The "holes" will not cause a problem. They are often filled in but don't hurt anything.

Incorrect jetting is not the likely source of your problem. The needle valve that controls gas flow and the float level would be the most likely culprit. If the needle valve doesn't shut off completely, at idle it can easily allow too much fuel to enter the bowl. If the float is set improperly the same thing will occur. So, get a new needle valve and adjust the float and see if that cures the problem.

edit: You would want to make sure the carb was not assembled without a jet...

[FV90]

I was at the AX that Paul was trying to run. The problem getting it to run drained the battery so he was only able to make 1 run. When we took the cover off you could easily smell it was flooded. I had him get in the car and I (by hand) keep the throttle plate open till it started and even at higher rpm's it stumbled. Looking into the carb the amount of fuel didn't look right as in it seemed to be too much. There was also the small brass screw which sits just below the carb top missing. I have sent him a jpg of that and if nothing else I'll let him borrow one of mine.

[pacratt]

...also the small brass screw which sits just below the carb top missing.

If I'm understanding, you mean the air-correction jet (the small brass screw which sits just below the carb top) in the center of the intake air-flow...flooding makes a lot of sense now.
Better make sure it didn't go down the carb & into the manifold...if it did, it will eventually work its way to one of the intake valves/cylinders and then - OUCH!!!
I've seen it happen and it ain't pretty.
Pull the manifold and tip it left & right...hopefully the jet will roll out.
If not, consider removing the heads and inspecting every nook/cranny in the intake ports.
Believe me, it's worth the time & effort.
DO NOT run the engine again until you confirm the jet isn't somewhere in there.

Glenn

[FV90]

Not that screw, we took the top off and that was there. This is the brass screw on the outside just below the top on side opposite of the bowl side.

[2Dogs]

No it isn't the jet, thankfully. It is the brass screw on the outside of the bowl, I believe it is called the Venturi securing screw.

[killerken53]

[FV90]

It was number 7 missing

[Jphoenix]

Sounds like a sunk float, check your float for gas inside. Palermo makes a nice brass ball float.

[killerken53]

#7 is part of the accelerator pump. It definitely needs to be there. It however, is probably not the reason the car is flooded. I would agree it is a float issue or a bad needle and seat, or a combination of both.

[HayesCages]

What he said^^

Is your float plastic or brass? If plastic does it still have the brass tang attached to it? If it does it needs to be removed. Turn the float up-side-down and reinstall and put the brass tang back on the shaft as it was.
Is your carb turned so it points in the stock direction? i.e.: turned around on the manifold to sit as it would in a Bug.
Lots of things go wrong with these carbs. I pulled a dead bug (pun intended) from the main metering circuit once...it worked much better after that.

[FV90]

He has a plastic float with a washer jb welded on the bottom but did have the brass wand in position (which I have never seen before). The brass was not attached to the float just sitting on top, it did have the brass rod in the slot

[HayesCages]

Probably just put the tang back on the rod and be good to go.

[jphoenix13]

He has a plastic float with a washer jb welded on the bottom but did have the brass wand in position (which I have never seen before). The brass was not attached to the float just sitting on top, it did have the brass rod in the slot

That is exactly how it is suppose to be, tang not attached. Float should weigh 9 grams with washer glued on.

[2Dogs]

Sounds like a sunk float, check your float for gas inside. Palermo makes a nice brass ball float.

That is exactly how it is suppose to be, tang not attached. Float should weigh 9 grams with washer glued on.

This is great info, thank you! I pulled the float out to weigh it and noticed some fluid sloshing around inside. It's the brown plastic, and it is very worn from sliding around under the brass tang.

I weighed it and it weighed 11g. I have a new one on order, but it won't be here in time for the weekend race. I drilled a hole in the float, drained the fluid and JB welded the hole shut, adding enough epoxy to bring it up to 9g.

I'll let it sit over night and fire it up tomorrow. I removed and cleaned the sooty plugs this afternoon.

Man I hope this fixes it. I love simple fixes. It's the diagnostics I can't stand.

Thanks for all your help everyone, much appreciated.

Paul


BTW, what is Palermo? Is there a web site?

[killerken53]

Plugs are cheap, I'd put new ones in. They are never quite the same once you carbon them up. I have no idea what the plug of choice is for vee now, I always used W8AC but I was basically stock.

[2Dogs]

Plugs are cheap, I'd put new ones in. They are never quite the same once you carbon them up. I have no idea what the plug of choice is for vee now, I always used W8AC but I was basically stock.

That's good advice, will do.

[Jphoenix]

Mike Palermo makes a round brass ball that works very well in the FV carb, $25 plus shipping typically. Contact Mike at: fveeguy at yahoo.com

The brass ball weighs 12 to 13 grams, so float height should around .800, different from the normal recommendation of .600 to .650.

I found I needed .800" to keep the plugs from wetting in sharp turns and the resultant engine hesitation.

Epoxy will work fine as long as you're using gas with no alcohol, I had a float fall apart when I inadvertently put some 10% alcohol in the tank (duh!) this was a special glued together float.


Check out http://www.formulavee.org

[Jphoenix]

This guy: fvraceri@cox.net

Dietmar Bauerle can help you with most any question you have about your engine and carb. Everything I know (not much) I got from Dietmar. He answers emails, texts phone calls most any day and has gotten me out of a few jams when I needed help at the track.

Don't hesitate to send him an email when you find yourself scratching your head and staring at various parts of your motor.

He's one of many in the FV community that will always help out when they can.

[BLS]

If the float was full of fuel, then it will sink causing the valve to remain open and flood the engine. Same as the float level being too low.

The float modifications make a difference on the track, but not at idle. At idle, sitting in the paddock, the standard VW float would work fine.

[HayesCages]

Not mine nor anyone I know:
"Box of carburetors. Some new.
All items are best offer. There is other miscellaneous VW stuff I have not fully uncovered yet. Everything is located in my home garage in Lake County Illinois. Lake County is the northeastern most county bordering Wisconsin. Cell phone is 847-668-ate-four-six-o. E-mail is KeithBates@hotmail.com . (9/6/15)"

[2Dogs]

This guy: fvraceri@cox.net

Dietmar Bauerle can help you with most any question you have about your engine and carb. Everything I know (not much) I got from Dietmar. He answers emails, texts phone calls most any day and has gotten me out of a few jams when I needed help at the track.

Don't hesitate to send him an email when you find yourself scratching your head and staring at various parts of your motor.

He's one of many in the FV community that will always help out when they can.

I have a PM from Dietmar. I replied with a thank you and some info, but I'm not sure it was sent properly. So Dietmar, if you don't get the PM, thank you!
Paul

[Dietmar]

Yes, Paul, it was received and I sent a reply .

Waiting to hear the results of your "fix"

Dietmar
www.quixoteracing.com

[2Dogs]

That was it. I cranked it and it ran smooth as a vee should run. Idled just fine. I may need to make a few minor adjustments as the idle dropped once it got warm, but it was nothing like it used to be. All I need now is to change the oil and adjust the brakes and (fingers crossed) I'm ready for racing at Barber next weekend.

Thanks again for all the help!

Paul

[2Dogs]

As a followup, The carb "fix" was a bust. Thankfully Mark (FV90) was there with a spare float. First session on the track was a success! Thanks again for all the help here.

Paul