F2000 Arm Restraints - Optional

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I ran across this... Anyone know the logic behind the change?

http://www.f2000championshipseries.c...-bulletin.html

[Bob Wright]

Yes....Most Pro Series do not require them and a lot of drivers hate them (me included) and don't think they are effective. We verified with our insurance carrier that there is no requirement from their point of view....so we made them optional.

[EACIII]

Bob - think you can talk to some of the vintage groups that now require them (a me too thing I am sure). With the amount of turning required to drive a MG TC around a hairpin at speed you have to keep them so loose that you risk catching them on your harness release. Just a plain dumb idea

Ed

[Roland V. Johnson]

I'll be happy to get a testimonial from my customer who crashed a few years ago. His right arm restraint was torn from where it was sewn into his Sparco driver's suit. ( very poorly constructed) That arm was broken badly and the resulting nerve injuries from the broken bones threshing around took several years to heal. The left arm restraint held.......no injuries to that arm. By the way the HANS certainly saved his life.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

His right arm restraint was torn from where it was sewn into his Sparco driver's suit. ( very poorly constructed)

I've seen simple loops sewn to suits and don't understand why people think that is sufficient. I guess maybe because they don't really believe in them and it satisfies the rules.

And yet there is still disagreement between manufacturers and between users on the position where they connect to your arm.

[andyllc]

Indycar, F1, etc....none of them require them. I can't stand that we have to wear them in SCCA. There are always risks in racing that everyone has to accept when they participate. I am more than willing to accept any risk associated by not wearing them.

[problemchild]

Note that the rule says that they are not required, not that they are prohibited. If people feel safer with them, wear them.

If nothing else, pace laps will be safer, as half the field won't be trying to get their arm restraints off.

[DaveW]

One of the main issues in wearing them such that they do the most good is that we are required to have enough arm motion to signal passing drivers. Those two things, IMO, are pretty much mutually exclusive.

[Steve Demeter]

If you ever saw Mac McLellan's sprint car crash on Thursday Night Thunder a number of years back you would not get into a race car without them unless there was simply no physical way to get your arm squashed by the roll bar, bracing, etc.

[stonebridge20]

One of my best days in racing was in 1994 at Montreal doing my first Pro Atlantic race. While showing the tech inspector my gear, he asked if I was going to use "those things" as I showed him my arm restraints. I said yea, don't we have to use them? His response,.... No, not in pro racing and I advise against using them. I promptly threw them in the garbage can a few feet away. It sucked when I had to buy a new set when I went back club racing all so I could get through tech and then tuck them under my legs every time I rolled down pit lane.

Disclaimer: I applaud anybody that uses them by choice. Just don't make me use something that I feel can hinder my control of a racecar at times when I least expect it.

[SilverCarbir_FC26]

I choose to use them, its not terribly uncomfortable and I can still get just my hands out of the cock pit enough to point or make signals to workers. In the past 10 years in open wheel racing I have been very lucky to have never been in any sort of accident that put my safety gear to use. But regardless if there is a piece of safety gear I can use and still be comfortable and make signals I will use it. When it comes to this sport as its my hobby I need to be able to get to work on Monday morning whether I do well or have an unfortunate crash. So for that reason alone I use them.

[Purple Frog]

I'm a believer in their use. I have two scared fingers from being caught between my helmet and the pavement in 2005. I have to believe it would have been a lot worse without them. I had them set so that I could lift my visor. The fingers were cut when they were unfortunately caught between the top edge of the visor and the pavement. After the second, or was it third? flip, I don't think I was in control of my arms.
Never had an issue driving with them. Wore them on the forearms like spint car drivers are instructed, where they have the most control of your arm.

And, I thank DaveW for talking me into being a early adopter of the HANS.

99.99% percent of the time you won't need a helmet, nor a firesuit either, so just go out with a pair of sunglasses.

[jim morgan]

Frog,

If I remember correctly the issue in that wreck was you blew a yellow flag.(along with 20 others)
Mine come off after 1 minute, had it down around the shifter too many times. No I couldn't sew them on another member of our team habitually forgot his and had to borrow.

[DaveW]

Frog,

If I remember correctly the issue in that wreck was you blew a yellow flag.(along with 20 others)
Mine come off after 1 minute, had it down around the shifter too many times. No I couldn't sew them on another member of our team habitually forgot his and had to borrow.

To elaborate on this:

8 AM qualifying session at Runoffs at Mid-Ohio, bright sun shining directly in our eyes coming up to the RH turn 11 (before thunder valley), and corner workers on drivers' right, so they were invisible in the glare unless drivers took their eyes totally off the track.

One car spun, and the rest were caught out by the glare.

[Purple Frog]

Funny thing about that.
A few weeks ago the guy that was the head corner worker at T11 that fateful morning walked up to me at the Road Atlanta Major and introduced himself. He said that as I was following Cole into the corner they were just reaching for the flag. For about a minute the staff at T11 thought I had made it through, it wasn't until later that Thunder Valley radioed in to report they had a "flipper" down in the valley. He said he had requested a red flag, but the tower decided to checker it. Thus, 20 more piled into the corner not being able to see the yellow, or thinking the yellow was a white because of the bright sun right behind it..

[Bob Wright]

"piled in" is pretty much an understatement. It was about lap three of qualifying, everybody's tires had just come in and we were 'on it'. I could barely see the yellow- the first thing that told me we had an issue was a rear wing sticking up sideways over the crest of the turn because it was on top of another car...

[Rick Kirchner]

I'm one of the folks that open a seam on my lower arm and have some climbing loop bar tacked inside the suit. Better than nothing and much better than trying to wear the external ones on your lower arm.

I also use carabiners on the lower attachments, just in case I forget or miss the leg loop when getting hooked up. I do question their effectiveness when loose enough to work the visor and signal out of the car.

Those slick simpson external restraints nearly crashed me twice. I'll never wear that kind again.

[Raceworks]

I've never undesrtood why arm restraints are an issue. It's like the guys that complain about having to buy a HANS or insist on leaving their belts loose. Me, I prefer to be as locked down as possible because I know way too much about what happens to your body in a crash.

I also haven't had a problem with them (or the HANS) restricting movement. If you adjust them right they're going to be fine especially in a formula car. It's not like the rack moves that much anyway, and the shift knob is maybe 2" from the steering wheel.

I'm still paranoid about what happens if the restraints stretch in a rollover and my knuckles scrape the pavement. If I can find some nomex gloves with biker-style knuckleguards I'm so getting them.

The sewn-in restraints are a joke if they don't completely encircle the arm because the stitching is only cosmetic. You can rip most of them off by hand let alone when you're bouncing around at 30 gees.

I like Simpson's arm restraints the best: decently priced, simple, and comfortable enough that when I've got them on I don't even know they're there.

I don't care what the rules are I'm wearing mine and anybody getting into my cars is going to wear them as well. You can't have too much safety gear I'm not going to let someone lose fingers or limbs because they refuse to learn how to wear things properly, let alone expose myself to liability claims if some attorney convinces them it's really my fault they were stupid.

[Rick Kirchner]

They don't restrict movement until they slide down and hang up on something in the car.

most peoples forearms are a lot bigger at the elbow than at the wrist, which makes keeping the things on really difficult

[mazda17]

This reminds me of the poster of a rabbit with two teeth at my dentist office that says "you don't have to floss all your teeth, just the ones you want to keep."

I have always used arm restraints. I use Simpson ones and have a strap with Velcro sewn on my suit to hold them in place without needing to be very tight on my arms.

[DaveW]

One of the main issues in wearing them such that they do the most good is that we are required to have enough arm motion to signal passing drivers. Those two things, IMO, are pretty much mutually exclusive.

They don't restrict movement until they slide down and hang up on something in the car.

most peoples forearms are a lot bigger at the elbow than at the wrist, which makes keeping the things on really difficult

I attach them (tighten the strap) just above the elbow. Obviously, that is not the optimum safety position, but they do restrain my arms to some degree, and they don't slide down. I can also signal following drivers, etc., with them in that position.

I know that is a compromise, but they don't get in the way. I also sit very deep in the car (my eye level is just above the roll cage), so it will help keep my arms mostly in if needed.

[Rick Kirchner]

Upper extremity injuries are pretty low though. I found two medical papers on the web - one was a look at CART and NASCAR drivers from 94-98 and the other was similar but from 95 to 2000.

It appears the rate of upper extremity injuries in those series is between 6 and 14% of all injuries.

The only pro drivers I found with any arm injuries of late were Kubica (actually injured in a rally car) and Joey Saldana (WOO). Cubic actually had two significant arm injuries in his career - one in F3 that broke his upper arm in five pieces! I have no doubt others will chime in.

Not insignificant numbers but not a huge threat either. Sometimes we just get all too worked up over not much.

[Brad Smith]

Alonsos' arms seemed fine. I find my shifter arm restraint always loose and useless by the end of any session. The left usually stays tight.

[Lotus7]

just a thought from a non-driver, but who has been buckling guys into formula cars for 30+ years:

I'm really curious why you don't get the full-circumference straps sewn onto your sleeves just below the elbow, then determine the optimum length for the straps, and have them shortened and sewn to that length.

No sliding, no excess strap to get tangled up .... always seemed obvious to me, but as I said, I'm not the guy in the car and maybe I'm missing something?

[R. Pare]

Whatever happened to using some velcro to keep the straps from sliding down the arm?

[Steve Demeter]

I have two strips of velcro sewn onto my suit sleeves where I want them to stay. Another piece of webbing with two strips of the other half (fuzzy or hooky ) sewn onto it .

Put the restraints on and slap the webbing with the velcro on the patches on the sleeve and viola they stay put.

Duct tape has been known to work, but the adhesive kinda makes a mess of your suit.

[R. Pare]

Somewhere in his stuff Steve L. has a picture of him - pre-restraint days - upside down, rolling over the armco at Mid Ohio, with his arm almost between the armco and the frame. Had the arm ben in a slightly different position, he would have lost it.

Would make a believer out of you in an instant.

[EACIII]

I have never had a issue with them sliding down in the FF or getting in the way. Hell we only turn the wheel a little bit. My issue was with the requirement in vintage cars where you have to make two full turns of the wheel. Whole different deal.

[Daryl DeArman]

Coming from a brief stint in roundy-round dirt track open wheel stuff, I won't get on the track without them and don't realize they are there. They don't interfere with my ability to work any of the controls I need to operate and I am able to signal enough for folks to see. I mean, how much sawing (save the MG-TD example) does one need to do?

[rickb99]

.... (save the MG-TD example)....

Having owned an MG TD as my first car, I'm somewhat familiar with the steering which, I must say was not that slow. It was a LARGE wheel but it was only 1 1/2 turns lock-to-lock. The TC may have been worse but I didn't get to drive many of them. The TD was a true classic sports car in it's day !! GREAT FUN

I can advise you not to try going around corners with a broken steering link! They don't turn well and, the unattached wheel has a tendency to track really well. Hard to figure out what's wrong when you're an inexperienced youngster.

[EACIII]

The TD has a rack and pinion steering. Not so on the TC. I think it is 2 1/2 turns lock to lock. A few years ago one of the TD racers took a TC out for a few laps. Came back and said you guys are nuts to race those things. Guess it is just something you get used to.

Oh, we have the steering arms and stub axles checked regularly for cracks.

Ed