FF treaded tire

[tim voth]

How much does a set of vintage treaded Hoosier (or equivalent)tires go for on a formula ford?

[tim voth]

OK, now I'm confused. Is there more than one formula ford treaded tire being used in the 2016 season?
I am aware of the toyo R888. I'm guessing the royale series will follow suite?

[pooch776]

Avon's are about $1200 per set. These will last about one race season depending on how many races you do. We are hoping the Hoosier's will be cheaper when the arrive. No word yet on how long they will last. Dunlop's are not currently available but there is talk that they may be back. These had the best performance vs longevity in my opinion.

Cheers, Joe

[pooch776]

The Toyo R888 is treaded but not considered vintage.

SVRA has selected this tire for use on the Formula Fords but it is my understanding you can still run under Monoposto rules and use the Dunlop's (if you have them) or Avon's. As of yet, SVRA has not commented on the Hoosier's.

VRG and the Royale Series is NOT expected to follow suit. You can run the Avon's, Dunlop's or Hoosier's. Maybe in the future they will consider the Toyo's but certainly not in 2016!

[tim voth]

I don't like politics of any kind… these people need to be on the same page.

I think we need to get people out to the track, it's not a difficult formula

[pooch776]

Speedr,

It's hard enough to get all of the people in the VRG on the same page, let alone multiple clubs! SVRA is a for profit club with a small group of people making decisions. VRG is a non profit club run by the members. We have a board that makes decisions but they usually do a very good job of determining what the majority of the club members want before they make changes.

You are welcome to join VRG and share your opinion on this and other rules. It's simple, if enough people want the Toyo's they will be approved. Right now, that is not the case. We like the tires we have and don't see a need to change. We have agreed to accept the Hoosier's this year and I am hoping they will have similar performance at a lower cost than the Avon's.

I race a Crossle 45F and I can run the Avon's with both SVRA and VRG. I like the Avon's and see no reason to use Toyo's other than cost. It is not practical to run the Avon's for VRG and the Toyo's for SVRA because of the big difference in car set-up between the tires.

Joe

[tim voth]

It's Tim by the way (:

Thanks for the replies joe. I now have a better understanding.

[fleetdude]

Speedr,

I race a Crossle 45F and I can run the Avon's with both SVRA and VRG. I like the Avon's and see no reason to use Toyo's other than cost. It is not practical to run the Avon's for VRG and the Toyo's for SVRA because of the big difference in car set-up between the tires.

Joe

As I understand the SVRA new rule, you cannot run Avons on a Club Ford (Crossle 45) or a Post Club Ford...only on a pre-72 Vintage FF which is where Monoposto rules can be used. In that instance, other Monoposto rules apply, including steel wheels and cylinder heads. All others, including PCF (or Modern) FF are required to be on the DOT radial Toyo. Yes it's a mess.

[pooch776]

That was not the way I understood the new rules but you may be completely correct and I may be misinformed. I thought they wanted to leave the Vintage FF and Club Ford groups as they were and ADD a new Post Club Ford group using the Toyo's.

If you are correct it makes my race choices easier. I will attend all five of the Royale Series races and likely not attend any of the SVRA events. It would be nice to have the ability to attend one or two SVRA events and run the Royale Series using the Avon's.

Living in the Northeast, I have little interest in attending only SVRA events. I will not buy two different types of tires and changing the set-up to use two types of tires just to race in one or two SVRA events!

Joe

[pooch776]

I just looked at the SVRA website and read the rules again. I think you may be wrong but I must admit it is less the clear. I think it is only the PCF cars that are required to use the Toyo's. All three groups CAN use the Toyo's but it looks like the Vintage and Club Ford cars can still run under Monoposto rules.

Joe

[s800racer]

I had some difficulty deciphering the Group 2 tire rules as well. I asked the SVRA technical director directly and he confirmed that both pre '73 FFs and Club Fords could use the Avon tire per Monoposto rules.

[ffhillclimber]

How much does a set of vintage treaded Hoosier (or equivalent)tires go for on a formula ford?

I just saw the prices this morning on the new Hoosier VFF tires and they are $720 a set. $185 for the rears and $175 for the fronts. Available the first of April.

[goodyscrossle20]

new hoosiers are $840 fall 2016

[Earley Motorsports]

And.... the Open Wheel event at Indy with SVRA will not allow Avon treaded tires. I inquired and was told only Hoosier treaded or Toyos.

[Robert J. Alder]

Yup. SVRA's current FF tire rules are either Toyo or Hoosier:
Front: Toyo Proxes R888, 185/60R/13
Rear: Toyo Proxes R888, 205/60R/13
Front: Hoosier 135/545-13VFF
Rear: Hoosier 165/580-13VFF
What a weird combo. Many/Most vintage organizations now approve the old Dunlop (Unobtainium for practical purposes), the Avon (in the correct compound), and the new Hoosier. FF tire which has been proven to be pretty much equal to those two tires. Few vintage organizations are specifying the Toyo because it's such a different tire.

All too weird. Am I missing something?

[Roland V. Johnson]

The Toyo is not faster than the Hoosier, the Avon might be. We do not want to get into a tire war. The Hoosier is a good tire, and still (the last time I checked) much less expensive than the Avon.

[Robert J. Alder]

I understand. Still seems weird to approve an entirely different tire (Toyo), albeit a slower one, and not accept the long-established Avon which in the correct compound (the ACB9 tire) in the A29) wasn't really faster. Admittedly, the Hoosier will eventually displace all the Avons, just because of price, but why disallow them?

I don't understand the logic of have a slower "spec" tire (toyo) in a spec class?

[teamwisconsin]

And.... the Open Wheel event at Indy with SVRA will not allow Avon treaded tires. I inquired and was told only Hoosier treaded or Toyos.

That is so sad. Typical, not surprising, but really sad. I'm sure once Hoosier has driven Avon out completely, the prices will start to rise. Judging from the posts above, looks like they already have started to. Bummer.

[Christopher Shoemaker]

And.... the Open Wheel event at Indy with SVRA will not allow Avon treaded tires. I inquired and was told only Hoosier treaded or Toyos.

the Royale Formula Ford Challenge series is having an event at the J500 in May. Tire rules are all sorted out and all cars are welcome...none of this follow this rule, get this or that nonsense. Just have a Formula Ford, Formula F and want to have fun!

On a personal note, so far loving the Hoosiers and highly recommend!


--- Christopher Shoemaker
Royale Racing, LLC

[s800racer]

And.... the Open Wheel event at Indy with SVRA will not allow Avon treaded tires. I inquired and was told only Hoosier treaded or Toyos.

If that is true, they need to update their "FF Participation Guidelines" that are specific to the Open Wheel World Challenge at Indy (OWWC). They list Toyos, treaded Hoosiers, Dunlops, Avons, Hoosier R60s and Hoosier wets as well as "whatever tires". That's a pretty inclusive list. Here are the listed tires for that event:

"SVRA Tires:
Hoosier VFF 135/545-13 (front) and 165/580-13 (rear)
Toyo Proxes R88 185/60R/13 (front) and 205/60R/13 (rear)
Monoposto Tires: Formula Ford race group:
Dunlop CR 82 9092 135/545-13 (front) and 165/580-13 (rear)
Avon A29 5.0/22.0-13 14297 (front) and 6.5/23.0-13 12298 (rear)
SCCA Tires:
Dries:
Front- Hoosier R60A Radial 43322 or F1600 Radial 43321,185/60R13
Rear- Hoosier R60A Radial 43327 or F1600 Radial 43326, 205/60R13
Wets:
Front-Hoosier Wet Radial 44421 185/60R13
Rear-Hoosier Wet Radial 44426 205/60R13
(SFF) Tires:
Whatever tires are specified by your particular Club"

If you are thinking of participating and you have any question about it, the person to talk to is Rick Parent, the SVRA Tech director. He is very accessible and responsive. rick@svra.com

[s800racer]

The Toyo is not faster than the Hoosier, the Avon might be. We do not want to get into a tire war. The Hoosier is a good tire, and still (the last time I checked) much less expensive than the Avon.

No advantage between Hoosier and Avon (other than price). I raced on Avons last year while a lot of my competitors switched over to the Hoosiers. No one felt there was any discernible difference. For the cost difference, I will be switching to the Hoosiers this season.

[stonebridge20]

Just an FYI on the Hoosier tire. The dude that won the CF and overall championship in the Royale Racing/ VRG series here in the East, ran one set of Hoosiers last year and did every event. They actually have a little meat left on them!

Congrats to Storm Field. 2016 Royale Racing series Club Ford and overall champ.

Of course driving the Joisey Boys/Stonebridge Sports and Classics/Stonebridge Cryoscience/Hoosier Tire/Don't tell my wife anything/Butch I need help/Thanks Donnie/Crossle 30

[s800racer]

Just an FYI on the Hoosier tire. The dude that won the CF and overall championship in the Royale Racing/ VRG series here in the East, ran one set of Hoosiers last year and did every event. They actually have a little meat left on them!

Congrats to Storm Field. 2016 Royale Racing series Club Ford and overall champ.

Of course driving the Joisey Boys/Stonebridge Sports and Classics/Stonebridge Cryoscience/Hoosier Tire/Don't tell my wife anything/Butch I need help/Thanks Donnie/Crossle 30

Hoosiers were well represented with race wins, championships, track records, pole positions, etc.

[goodyscrossle20]

hoosier is the best tire for any $ after 3.5 years off the track, bought a set & was awarded hard charger just trying to requaint myself with my old friend after 20 plus years on dunlap I noticed the differance

[Earley Motorsports]

Ric is who told me only Hoosier or Toyos. That is fine but I don't really want to buy a set of Hoosier vintage tires when I have three light races on my treaded Avons.

[teamwisconsin]

I don't really want to buy a set of Hoosier vintage tires when I have three light races on my treaded Avons.

I had 34 heat cycles on a 3 year old set of Avons that I ran on my old Crosslé at the Sonoma Historics last year, with a field of 25 sets of Hoosiers, Toyos, and yes other Avons behind me. So thats about $35 per heat cycle; not bad. I wouldn't toss those Avons out until they're absolutely bald. But if for some reason you gotta have purple tires, let me know, I'll take those Avons off your hands. I'm not saying the Hoosier isn't cheaper, but at only $35 a heat cycle, I think the savings is false economy. I haven't seen them go as fast or last as long as the Avons out here.

My $.02

[s800racer]

Ric is who told me only Hoosier or Toyos. That is fine but I don't really want to buy a set of Hoosier vintage tires when I have three light races on my treaded Avons.

Did he tell you that recently? i must be missing something since it doesn't seem to square with the info on their website specifically provided for FFs at the OWWC.

[s800racer]

I had 34 heat cycles on a 3 year old set of Avons that I ran on my old Crosslé at the Sonoma Historics last year, with a field of 25 sets of Hoosiers, Toyos, and yes other Avons behind me. So thats about $35 per heat cycle; not bad. I wouldn't toss those Avons out until they're absolutely bald. But if for some reason you gotta have purple tires, let me know, I'll take those Avons off your hands. I'm not saying the Hoosier isn't cheaper, but at only $35 a heat cycle, I think the savings is false economy. I haven't seen them go as fast or last as long as the Avons out here.

My $.02

I had about the same number of heat cycles on my Avons last year and don't think they ever fell off noticeably. Won races against good competition right to the end.

I have not heard complaints of the Hoosiers not lasting as long and it can be very difficult to judge tire wear by what others get from their tires. My first set of Dunlops lasted 10 or 12 weekends. Then I learned to drive the car and the second set lasted 5-6 weekends!

[pooch776]

My last set of Avons lasted 40-45 heat cycles then they fell off a cliff. My Hoosiers lasted 55-60 heat cycles in 2016. I like the Hoosiers the best out of the three (Dunlops, Avons & Hoosiers).

Cheers, Joe

[DaveZ]

Haven't seen any comments on the aesthetics side of this conversation, but my 2 cents is that the Avons just look better on vintage FF's. To me, the Hoosiers are visually too tall, and too narrow both in sidewall "bulge" and tread width by comparison. Does that matter? When both tires perform at what sounds like a very similar level, both last a very long time, and cost-per-heat-cycle isn't that much different (thanks, Ethan), I'll certainly include aesthetics as a decision factor!

[Bob Posner]

Is there a gearing change required between the Hoosiers vs Avons?

[Earley Motorsports]

Did he tell you that recently? i must be missing something since it doesn't seem to square with the info on their website specifically provided for FFs at the OWWC.

This is the actual wording from Ric January 9th 2017. " for groups 3,4 and 5 the answer is Hoosiers and Toyo's only."

[Roland V. Johnson]

No, Bob. The gears are the same.

[pooch776]

Dave,

I agree they do look much different than the Dunlops and Avons. The edges of the tread pattern are much "squarer". The tires may look taller but they are actually shorter (smaller diameter) by 3/8 to 1/2 inch. I had to raise my car about 1/4 inch to keep it off the rub blocks once I went to the Hoosiers.

Bob,

I did have to change my 4th gear at VIR this year (up 1 tooth) to avoid hitting the rev limiter in a draft. Not a 100% sure if it was the smaller diameter tires or the fact that I know the track a little better this year. I am very close to the same issue at Summit Point so there is a change in revs but it is very small.

Joe

[Lotus7]

Can I resurrect this thread for details I can't find...

Anyone have the weights of the Avons and VFF's ?

Anyone have mounted circumferences for F and R, Avon and VFF?

thx

[holmberg]

Hoosier tire catalog

Item numbers 44165 and 44170 are the vintage treaded FF tire.

Approximate circumference 67.0" and 71.2".

I have written down that the fronts are 13 lbs, rears are 17 lbs., but I don't remember where I got those numbers from.

At Competition Motorsport they cost $181 for the fronts and $191 for the rears. $744 for a set, not including tax, shipping, mounting or balancing.

[Lotus7]

Hoosier tire catalog

Item numbers 44165 and 44170 are the vintage treaded FF tire.

Approximate circumference 67.0" and 71.2".

I have written down that the fronts are 13 lbs, rears are 17 lbs., but I don't remember where I got those numbers from.

At Competition Motorsport they cost $181 for the fronts and $191 for the rears. $744 for a set, not including tax, shipping, mounting or balancing.

thx, saw those circ numbers, was wondering if anyone had verified them, and compared to Avon. cheers
I do have a weight of 51# total for a set of 4-session Avons; maybe the VFF are heavier?

[Lotus7]

and cost-per-heat-cycle isn't that much different ...

The post prior to yours (#29) suggests the much less expensive Hoosiers last somewhat longer than the Avons, making this comment hard to accept. Do you have different back-to-back data that shows the factually more expensive Avons do indeed have more heat cycle life in them? No idea who is right or wrong, I'm just the new guy trying to decide on a tire :-) Thanks

[stonebridge20]

The post prior to yours (#29) suggests the much less expensive Hoosiers last somewhat longer than the Avons, making this comment hard to accept. Do you have different back-to-back data that shows the factually more expensive Avons do indeed have more heat cycle life in them? No idea who is right or wrong, I'm just the new guy trying to decide on a tire :-) Thanks

Buy superstar a set of Hoosiers and tell him the they're a "special matched set"
He'll never know any different.

[racersonly]

I'm curious. Can anyone tell me the durometer of the Hoosier Vintage FF tire?