Tires & A Few Questions

[Shanerc]

I was looking at the Supplementary Regs for the Homestead Majors and noticed that Competition South was listed as the Goodyear dealer. Is this a fact? I was under the impression that GY & Competition South parted ways or something of that nature or has the issue been resolved?

The next question is about the "NEW TIRE" please answer based on facts from personal experience, NOT speculation, NOT what BillyBob or JimBo told you.

Who has ran the "NEW" tire?
What tire did you use before?
Where & When did you run it?
What was the track & weather conditions?
Did you use Air or Nitrogen?
What was the Pros and/or Cons?
Do you have any tips, tricks, advice?

Thank you

[weedline]

Shane,

Looks like someone simply did a copy and paste from last years supps.
I just checked their website and it still shows no GY affiliation at this time. Just some GY odds and ends they are trying to get rid of.
Give them a call.

Mark

[Shanerc]

Ok thanks Mark I will give them a shout and post back

[Shanerc]

*Update*

I called Competition Tire South and the number is disconnected, I called Eric and his cell goes directly to voicemail so it appears that the information contained in the supps is not accurate. Then I called Sasco and Dave told me that they are still trying to work something out with SCCA and he is unsure if they will support the Majors at all. He currently dosnt have any of our tires but is trying to secure some. I am 2hrs from Sasco, if anyone wants or needs tires let me know and I can bring them to Homestead to save on shipping. I will post any updates when Dave calls me back.

[FrankRizzo]

They were going to make the great new tire from Eastup the new spec tire. No one in the US HAS them, and they're designed for underground mining carts, but they say it should save money.

[weedline]

[daericks]

I put a set on my street car. I expect to get 80,000 miles out of them.

[FrankRizzo]

Did you get the 34 ply model?

[daericks]

Shanerc,

I see you haven't gotten any meaningful feedback on your post. I tried to resist comment but ultimately decided give you what my team knows about this tire. It has been discussed a little bit before but the thread was moved to the FS board.

My team of 5 active racers have run them three times out west. Four of us will never run them again. One is attempting to test the tire a bit more hoping to find a setup that actually makes the car safe. We have previously used the Goodyear 255, 430, and 475. The 255 is the tire of choice for our team. We never use Nitrogen. In fact, I have never heard of anyone that does in these cars.

We ran the tire at Sonoma, Cal Speedway (Fontana), and Chuckwalla.
Somona weather: 75 degrees plus or minus 10 depending on time of day.
Cal Speedway: 70 degrees plus or minus 10.
Chuckwalla: 55 degrees plus or minus 10.

Pros = none (and I am serious, there are none that we can speak of). I guess it would make a good trailer tire though.

cons = can't brake nearly as well (harder compound), lack of grip everywhere, the do NOT last longer than any other tire we drove, it takes a solid two laps to get them up to temp so don't go out blazing on the first green lap, Goodyear is researching to see if we had a "bad batch"--as in the entire production run, new tires are faster than used ones so all of the really competitive guys will likely go out on stickers as often as possible.

I posted some suggested setup information in a previous chain. Here it is again. This is a copy/paste. I will tell you that this setup will need to be played with quite a bit depending on what track you are on but it should be decent enough to start.


- Target hot Tire pressure 18psi front and rear. All of our set up numbers are done with this pressure. I tune the car to maintain the same target hot temp. I have never had to stager my hot temp to make the car work.
- Set up with 10 gallons of fuel and a total car weight of 1410 lbs

Ride height:
- Front 1.875”
- Rear 2.750”
Caster
- Front 5.0-5.5
Camber
- Front -.8 (neg)
- Rear +.4 (pos)
Toe
- Front 3mm toe out each side 6mm total
- Rear 0
Springs
- Front 750 lbs
- Rear 500 lbs
Compression
- Front 7 (from soft)
- Rear 5 (from soft)
Rebound
- Front 6 (from soft)
- Rear 4 (from soft)
Bump Rubbers
- Front Short
- Rear Tall
Packers
- Front 0
- Rear as many as it takes to have .375 - .500 gap between bump rubber and packer at static. You will need a shorter gap for your slower drivers
Shock perch heights
- Front +/- .125
- Rear +/- .250
Corner weights
- Front +/- 5 lbs
- Rear +/- 10 lbs
ARB
- Front Full soft
- Rear baseline at 3” with Sticker tires (adjust for wear)
Wing
- We measure without including the wicker. We start with the front and rear at the same angle. Ranging from 6 – 10 degrees depending on track
Wicker
- Front Tall (.750)
- Rear Short (.375)
- We ALWAYS run wickers. Even the winning car at Daytona ran wickers. The only difference is we ran .375 front and rear.


The primary changes we make are:
1) Rake
2) Camber based on tire temps. (I like to stay within 5-10 degrees across the tire hottest temp in the inside shoulder)
3) Packers
4) Bar (mostly to chase tire wear) (Soften bar as tires get older and start to get looser)
5) Shocks
6) Wing (for tuning corners above 70 mph)
7) Toe
8) Caster
9) Bump steer.
10) Always make sure to keep an eye on tire temps to adjust cambers.

In that order. Very rarely do I have to get passed step 6. Steps 1-3 will usually do the trick for overall handling. Steps 4-6 is for balance, and tire wear. Steps 7-10 is very rarely needed assuming the baseline is correct.

This info is also assuming the car has been Squared and bump steer is correct. Also that there are no excessively worn parts on the car suck as himes, uprights, ackerman plates and blocks, and that the shocks are FM spec, and functioning properly. I suggest double adjustable shocks to be rebuilt every 40 hours, or whenever they weep oil, or loose an excessive amount of air pressure.

[Shanerc]

Thank you very much Mr Daericks, this is the kind of fact based information I was looking for. I did record the setup info you posted. I have a few ideas of my own and hopefully I can make something work. I will share the results of my ideas as I test them out.


Getting the tires= I have been in contact with Sasco again and they are still in process of securing some tires for us (East Coast Folks). I will keep this updated as I receive info. I am expecting a return call from Dave early in the week.

Moses has some tires that he can ship east if Sasco can not get any.


PM's & Calls= I will call you guys back Monday or Tuesday, I didn't get a chance to discuss anything in detail yet. Its on to top of my priority list.

[Shanerc]

Update==

I just got a call from Jim at Shelby Tire. He said that they are the Goodyear dealer and will be at Sebring & Homestead for the Majors. He has plenty of our "NEW" tire on the truck. If you feel more comfortable reserving your tires, his contact info is Jim Doughty 602-721-3416 Hopes this helps and hope to see yall in Florida. I would also like to give a big thanks to Dave at Sasco. He chased down all of this info and placed numerous calls and emails to get this worked out for us.

[daericks]

Update==

I just got a call from Jim at Shelby Tire. He said that they are the Goodyear dealer and will be at Sebring & Homestead for the Majors. He has plenty of our "NEW" tire on the truck. If you feel more comfortable reserving your tires, his contact info is Jim Doughty 602-721-3416 Hopes this helps and hope to see yall in Florida. I would also like to give a big thanks to Dave at Sasco. He chased down all of this info and placed numerous calls and emails to get this worked out for us.

That is some great news for you guys running the 470. Jim is first class in every way. He deserves a lot more credit than he ever gets and does everything within his power to help his customers. I had no idea he was the east coast guy since he is the big cheese over here in the west. You guys are lucky to have him on your team. He does not drop the ball and will give you the straight up info on anything you ask of him. Again, can't say enough about the guy.

[weedline]

If I understand this correctly, the only trackside support in the southeast will be at the majors?
Who will be doing track support here the other 50 weeks of the year?
Shane, I appreciate the leg work you performed. The problem that still remains is the Goodyear trackside support model is broken as it relates to club racing.
It unfortunately remains a deal breaker for our FM team.

Mark

[Shanerc]

Mark I do not know that he is only supporting the Majors and he did not say otherwise. I will try to find out. I wish Carson would come out and play in January one last time before yall switch out equipment.

[Coochas]

Shane I have only run the 470 once on my FM and I thought it was horrendous. The under steer I got on that compound necessitated ridiculous slowing. Admittedly I just put the tires on without changing the set up for the car which normally runs on 255.

The only 'good' thing about them was that they looked brand new at the end of the day. No surprise there.

I go back and forth on whether or not I am going to race my FM. I just really enjoy driving it. I am not a 'front runner' type of driver but am a reasonably quick guy running 1:58 at WGI and VIR.

To me the 470 was simply no fun.

[daericks]

Coochas, I saw your post and wanted to guide you to one that might help you if you ever want to try those POS tires again. The entire post is worth reading but there is some setup info in it that might help you.
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71321

Our team is done with FM and have changed to FS due to the new tire rule. Our feeling is exactly as yours but add in "you must limit the number of tires per weekend to have a successful tire rule." Most people run a band new set on the morning of qualify (or scrub in morning practice before qual) and keep them for the duration of the weekend. THEN use those same tires for practice at the next race weekend. The topic has been beat to death in the other thread so I'll keep it at that. If you wish to explore the FS options let me know. There is a huge effort going on right now to update these cars and you might enjoy learning about it.


Best of luck to you in your future races.