Level 5 DSR story

[stonebridge20]

http://www.dinnerwithracers.com/epis...vel-5-special/

And that folks, is the whole story.

[reidhazelton]

Good thing they did all that chassis sim time. That must have helped him make a ton of grip driving around 3' off the apexes.

Thanks for the link, very interesting.

[Daryl DeArman]

Good thing they did all that chassis sim time. That must have helped him make a ton of grip driving around 3' off the apexes.

Thanks for the link, very interesting.

When you do all your homework in the shop, you don't have to work as hard on the track.

[HazelNut]

Scott Tucker is my hero.

[HazelNut]

also, Jeff Braun is scary good at race cars

[Daryl DeArman]

You can just add Scott Tucker to the long list of folks racing that didn't come into their money in the most ethical and honorable ways.

However, you can't keep people from spending money to go faster.

All that we can hope to do is put rules in place that provide such diminishing returns on their investment of time and money that folks wont bother....or not and let the chips fall where they may.

[romoman]

also, Jeff Braun is scary good at race cars

Did you do the webinar with him a month or so ago? It was interesting to hear how he approached tuning a car.

[HazelNut]

everything Tucker did was legal at the time. Shady, but legal.

as for stopping guys like him from spending money on the sport? screw that, we need the loonies who are willing to hemorrhage money. As Jeff Braun said it was the most interesting project he's worked on. They had the opportunity to be as creative as they could be and no expense spared to get it done and done right.

AND they made are car that was ungodly fast. How could anyone who has any sort of love for cars and racing not LOVE that!

[Brandon Dixon]

AND they made are car that was ungodly fast. How could anyone who has any sort of love for cars and racing not LOVE that!

I do LOVE that, it's just that Jeff is more the hero to me...

[stonebridge20]

I love the whole project and how it was done. The only thing about the project that I totally despise is the money it was done with.

[BMLeib]

A friend of mine, and FC owner, Brian Willis was the program lead for Multimatic on that program. Brian has a really cool history, he's been with Gurney, Rahal, Williams BMW LMP, Audi Team Goh, Elan, Multimatic, and I've heard that he's now back working for Panoz. He's a super neat guy, has a thing for unloved Ferrari's, and designed one of the strangest shifter karts known to man. He's based out of Atlanta and I'd heard that he had a huge shunt in his FC a while back.

[Tigaman]

Actually, Brian was running his Norma sports racer in a mixed NASA group at Road Atlanta when a Mustang ran over him at the exit of T7. He was Lifeflighted out and spent close to six months in the hospital. Thankfully, he's been on the mend and is even putting the Norma back together again. Neat guy, neat story.

[SStadel]

Very interesting, but was I the only one that found it a bit condescending to SCCA Club Racing?

[BMLeib]

Thanks for the update. I knew it was a severe crash, but the car he was in and the extent of injuries weren't ever too clear. It's been since maybe 2010 since I've seen him in person. I had the pleasure of meeting Brian in 1994 when he moved to Ohio and by chance moved in next door to David Daughtery (he's got a few scca championships). David and I were both with TC Kline at the time and we all hit it off with Brian. I can't say enough great things about the guy.

[TimH]

Very interesting, but was I the only one that found it a bit condescending to SCCA Club Racing?

No, I think he kept getting back to what Club racing really should be about, recognized that his whole project was a little absurd. But awesome...

[Daryl DeArman]

No, I think he kept getting back to what Club racing really should be about, recognized that his whole project was a little absurd. But awesome...

I liked that he kept getting back to what Club racing should be about, but in making his points he certainly was a bit condescending about the mere simpletons

[Phil Creighton]

As the current owner of the two Level Five BMW Daytona Prototypes (for sale by the way) I can testify to the detail/no expense spared philosophy that Level Five had. Just all the detail prep that time and money can enable - not silly but functional stuff to optimize what you have. Rebuilding them was a learning experience following some of the best in the business
Phil

[Bob Wheless]

Phil can you share some of the stuff you ran into,,,, Im sure others would love to know too,,,, and thanks ,,,,,bob

[Phil Creighton]

I will try to pass on some of the prep tricks/fettling.
One that comes to mind was a rear sway bar cable that was split at the gear box mid cable so that it made for a quicker gearbox or engine change - no nuts or bolts just wiggins clamp off and the cable separates with the two inner cables inter-locking.
Hard to describe but a picture is worth........................tomorrow

[Purple Frog]

I actually enjoyed listening to the whole hour.

Especially that the DSR turned a 1:52 in testing. And the top speeds.... Yee Haw, that is hauling the freight.

"G" valved shocks are just so cool.

Shame the money was so dirty.

[Marty Nygard]

For comparison, the icon of the old CanAm series, the 1100+ HP Porsche 917-30K had a best lap at RA in 1973 of 1:57.5

[Wren]

Great story. I'm always impressed by Jeff Braun.

189 mph is crazy.

Yes, they were super condescending to club racing. The wind tunnel pictures that I saw of their testing were in the A2 wind tunnel that has seen everything from FV's on up in it. Wind tunnel testing is quite common in club racing these days.

[Jnovak]

Great story. I'm always impressed by Jeff Braun.

189 mph is crazy.

Yes, they were super condescending to club racing. The wind tunnel pictures that I saw of their testing were in the A2 wind tunnel that has seen everything from FV's on up in it. Wind tunnel testing is quite common in club racing these days.

Please help with tunnel budget for our next car.

[Chris Livengood]

I karted against Colin and his brother (can't remember his name). They stunk. I do remember them having the biggest motor-home though. I also remember them having what I believe was some sort of real time telemetry trackside. They did not stick around the karting world for long. This was late 90's or early 2000's I would think. So Jeff was working on some pretty crazy **** even then. The DSR performance is certainly the stuff of legends and legendary dollars. One for this history book without a doubt.

Edit: After the podcast I took a trip down the inerter rabbit hole. Ouch, my brain was not prepared.

[problemchild]

Wind tunnel testing is quite common in club racing these days.

That is a little bit of an exaggeration. A percentage point of a percentage point would not be considered quite common.

com·mon
?käm?n/Submit
adjective
1.
occurring, found, or done often; prevalent.
"salt and pepper are the two most common seasonings"
synonyms: usual, ordinary, familiar, regular, frequent, recurrent, everyday;

Come on Wren.
We expect you to be ruthless in your commentary, but something close to accurate.

[reidhazelton]

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...-the-j-damper/

Inerter info. Nifty stuff.

[Marty Nygard]

I am curious. How does Tucker's DSR condescend to SCCA? Does a high buck WF1 supported by a hired professional prep crew condescend to the open trailer homebuilt parked next to it? It seems the norm for FF or FC winners to have hired pro crews. People on this forum make their living prepping cars for less mechanically talented but more affluent drivers. Is that condescension to the ideals of SCCA?
I say respect the achievement without questioning the man.
Marty

[Jim Nash]

I am curious. How does Tucker's DSR condescend to SCCA? Does a high buck WF1 supported by a hired professional prep crew condescend to the open trailer homebuilt parked next to it? It seems the norm for FF or FC winners to have hired pro crews. People on this forum make their living prepping cars for less mechanically talented but more affluent drivers. Is that condescension to the ideals of SCCA?
I say respect the achievement without questioning the man.
Marty

Did you listen to the interview? It is not the act of building a DSR as they did that was felt to be condescending. It was the comments of the interviewers and the interviewee. I thought the comments were all in fun. Everyone can comment as they like. But your point that the project is "condescending' is off point. No one is questioning the man as you say.

Jim

[Purple Frog]

Safe to say it was like bringing a very big gun to a knife fight. I thought to comments by the interviewer kept begging the question of the depth of SCCA club development programs, but I thought it was lighthearted enough not to take up arms.

I mean seriously, 14 days of private track testing a Road America. $$$$$$

In reality some of the best club teams doing what we think is extensive development/testing don't even come close to what even a mid-pack Craftsman Truck team does.

Anze starting explaining inerters to me about 5 years ago. I was struggling to comprehend at that time.

The big gain is in electronic shocks using road sensors to "read' the surface ahead. Shocks have always 'reacted' to the force they experience. Now they can be instantly tuned to be ready for the force they are about to receive in real time. At Indy at 220mph the shock is reacting many many feet after it feels the input from the surface change. With current existing tech, sensors can see whats coming and set the shock for it, even at 220. Most sanctioning bodies are outlawing it, but it is being tested for road cars I can't afford.

[HazelNut]

I karted against Colin and his brother (can't remember his name). They stunk. I do remember them having the biggest motor-home though. I also remember them having what I believe was some sort of real time telemetry trackside. They did not stick around the karting world for long. This was late 90's or early 2000's I would think. So Jeff was working on some pretty crazy **** even then. The DSR performance is certainly the stuff of legends and legendary dollars. One for this history book without a doubt.

Edit: After the podcast I took a trip down the inerter rabbit hole. Ouch, my brain was not prepared.

My understanding was that it was the Coellos motor home and they helped the Brauns

[pepperbowe]

In 2012 I authored a book re: SRs at the 2012 Runoffs. Having heard about the Tucker project, I contacted Jeff (Braun) to inquire if I might interview him about the project. He graciously agreed, and along with my friend David Arken, we sat down on 9.20 for a 30 minute chat. Nearly two hours later, including lunch!, we finished and as I wrote on page 78, "we left the Level 5 compound early Thursday afternoon, 10 feet off the ground, our heads spinning with what we had just heard and attempted to absorb. I think David put it best, 'well that was special for all time!' "

Hopefully the attached link will open the preview for you, then click on the View Page Thumbnails underneath the book, select pages 74-75 for the story.

Interesting side note: I delivered some books to the West Race Car facility in late NOV, 2012 and saw the car sitting in a corner, minus some essential parts, and collecting dust. Guess even million dollar plus cars have their day in the sun, then time marches on

http://www.blurb.com/books/3629245-2012-runoffs-book

[pepperbowe]

https://www.facebook.com/AutoRacingT...5799087098714/

[Daryl DeArman]

http://news.yahoo.com/federal-trade-...210800850.html

[stonebridge20]

I don't ever wish bad on anyone but um,........yea!

[Dennis McCarthy]

Pay day money lending to poor folks who you know can't afford to pay you back, it doesn't get much lower than that...

[Lotus7]

Pay day money lending to poor folks who you know can't afford to pay you back, it doesn't get much lower than that...

I dont know Tucker personally, but have sure come to dislike the persona he's presented as in the media.
And hiding tax-free behind "native american" status, well thats a thread for another day.
HOWEVER, at the same time, Tucker isn't stupid by any means and I'd bet my house that there is every legal clause necessary, (in admittedly miniscule font) on the contracts these people signed that reveals all fees and rates.
I put equal blame on the people who got themselves into the need for these loans as I do on the leech that took advantage of them. This country needs to drop its "I'm entitled" attitude before it all goes down the drain.
YMMV

[Dennis McCarthy]

All the disclosure in the world be damed, it's simply immoral to throw a drowning man an anchor....

[dsmithwc04]

I dont know Tucker personally, but have sure come to dislike the persona he's presented as in the media.
And hiding tax-free behind "native american" status, well thats a thread for another day.
HOWEVER, at the same time, Tucker isn't stupid by any means and I'd bet my house that there is every legal clause necessary, (in admittedly miniscule font) on the contracts these people signed that reveals all fees and rates.
I put equal blame on the people who got themselves into the need for these loans as I do on the leech that took advantage of them. This country needs to drop its "I'm entitled" attitude before it all goes down the drain.
YMMV

I agree 100%. Everybody looks at lenders and banks and the Madoffs of the world as the bad guy because it's an obvious choice. Of course they are slime, but don't discount the morons with their "get rich quick" schemes and the others who make seriously uneducated choices which get them in incredibly desperate situations. Absolutely zero tears will be shed by myself for any of the parties involved.

Also, I honestly took no offense personally as I know exactly where I stand in the motorsports world. However, they sure sounded like every guy took a turn stroking each other off..

[Lotus7]

All the disclosure in the world be damed, it's simply immoral to throw a drowning man an anchor....

... agree in principle, but in this "lending" case not all drowning men are victims of others; in many case they are their own worst enemies, hence my entitlement comment

[Daryl DeArman]

All the disclosure in the world be damed, it's simply immoral to throw a drowning man an anchor....

Don't catch it.