2017 Runoffs

[David Locke]

Indianapolis is (and has always been) just down the road from where I live. My love of racing began when my Dad took me to the Speedway as a child, before I even started school. I saw Jim Clark drive there, and I've been back many times since.

I went to see the first U.S. Grand Prix at Indianapolis in 2000. Did I think the road course was of the same caliber as Elkhart Lake, Watkins Glen (where I'd previously been to the U.S. Grand Prix), or Mid-Ohio? No. Does this mean I have any reservations about racing there in the 2017 National Championship Runoffs? No. It's the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. No amount of negativity from anyone on the forum is going to wipe the smile off my face when I go past those grandstands and cross that yard of bricks.

[SStadel]

I think the biggest problem for the average club racer is the incredible expense it takes for the event. The entry fee is enormous, and the commitment of a week+ is not something everyone can do.
Perhaps breaking the event into segments would work better, so it only takes 3-4 days for your event, instead of being there a week & going on track once a day for 45min or so. It may not seem like a big difference, but may make or break a lot of racers.

This was tried at Road America one year after being pushed by Butch Kummer and myself. Apparently enough people didn't like it and it was abandoned the next year.

[dalz]

Those basic parameters used at the RA Runoffs were easy to implement and lopped at least a day off the time commitment. i.e. If you're on-track Monday, the latest your race will be is Saturday; if your race is Sunday, you will first be on-track Tuesday. I don't know what was so wrong with it that it didn't stick.

[John LaRue]

Dale, I would guess that it really did not help in that there is the issue of pre-event testing for many of the participants. If you tested it may have resulted in more time off track. If there were not testing that would probably work great. If I recall correctly they also did away with the Monday "free" practice day...or perhaps that was another schedule???

[R. Pare]

My 30 year old driver/son has never watched either their the 500 or 400.

Sounds more like a "racer" parent sorta fell down on the job.

[mmi16]

This was tried at Road America one year after being pushed by Butch Kummer and myself. Apparently enough people didn't like it and it was abandoned the next year.

Worst Runoff's experience I have had - as I recall, 4 classes were headed home having completed qualifying and their race before my class had even had it's first qualifying session.

[mmi16]

Dale, I would guess that it really did not help in that there is the issue of pre-event testing for many of the participants. If you tested it may have resulted in more time off track. If there were not testing that would probably work great. If I recall correctly they also did away with the Monday "free" practice day...or perhaps that was another schedule???

As I recall, the Free Practice Day, the last few years became a $$$$ Practice day, with proceeds going to SCCA not the track as 'normal' practice days do.

[SStadel]

Worst Runoff's experience I have had - as I recall, 4 classes were headed home having completed qualifying and their race before my class had even had it's first qualifying session.

That was and is the point that others were making. I doubt if the 4 classes that were headed home felt it was their worst Runoffs experience. It was designed to rotate, so had it kept going you would have been one of those four every three years. Regardless, Indy was something I've been pushing for for years, so if its a flop blame guys like me. If there are 1,000 entries......I told you so!

[SEComposites]

I wonder if I can go from a Regional license for the upcoming ARRC to qualified for the 2017 Runoffs!? Worth a try I'd say!

[Jnovak]

I wonder if I can go from a Regional license for the upcoming ARRC to qualified for the 2017 Runoffs!? Worth a try I'd say!

To get a license is possible. To qualify for 2017 Runoffs you would have to compete in that calendar year.

[cory mcleod]

Those basic parameters used at the RA Runoffs were easy to implement and lopped at least a day off the time commitment.

Not if you were in one of the later-in-the-week classes and wanted to run a practice day. It just meant you had x number of days sitting around at the track between the practice day and your first qualifying session.

I know the week-long schedule is a deal killer for some, but I personally think a pre-Runoffs practice day is money well spent, and I like the pace of the 1 Q session per day for 4 days schedule. Gives you time to enjoy the event and also time to fix/tweak your car between Q sessions without ridiculous thrashing or super-late nights.

[cory mcleod]

Indy was something I've been pushing for for years, so if its a flop blame guys like me. If there are 1,000 entries......I told you so!

Haters gonna hate no mater what. Just like every Internet forum, there's a lot of keyboard jockeys here, who have race cars that never see anything but the 4 walls of their garages or don't even have race cars at all. It's fun to go back and read the dire predictions of hurricanes at the 2015 Daytona Runoffs.

As for me, I already have the Indy Runoffs marked in my Outlook calendar and am starting to act like Eric Cartman waiting for the Nintendo Wii to be released.

[greg pizzo]

I do not think Indy or the roving Runoff model will/has done anything to improve Club racing participation. Outside the local region Indy is a non event these days. Maybe popular as a boring stock car race. On the West Coast the 500 results are lucky to make the sports section.

The roving Runoff is a good event business model for SCCA but as the bucket list soon becomes full even this idea will become a financial failure.

Do not give SCCA too much credit for signing up with Indy. Indy management has changed their business model and they are now only going for the low hanging fruit. There was a Rolling Stone concert last July 4th! This sound like the once great motor racing monument that was active for one month a year in May? Classic example of brand dilution.

Brian

brain with all your NAY saying, YEAR AFTER YEAR, I have YET to hear ANY positive alternative come from your keyboard (maybe I missed it but I doubt it)

just POST after POST of trying to point out how futile everyone else's ideas are, BUT never an alternative solution, just more of the worthless dribble you seem hell bent to rain down on anyone doing anything. case in point although for a number of reasons I was not able to compete at the 2014 Laguna Seca Runoffs but was able to be there some of the time and the event went very well and most people I talked to had no complaints and would do it again if given the chance. A far cry from the gloom and doom you so expertly predicted

Maybe you can make a deal with everyone here, IF we have to endure your constant dribble of gloom and doom YOU must also Present a viable alternative as well! if you are not able then spare us the narrative of derogatory predictions

Be part of a SOLUTION not just be the narrative of negativity that hardingly needs to be
pointed out

NO ONE wants to hear just that side of anything.

[Tiago Santos]

You grossly overestimate the significance of Indy with the US population. My 30 year old driver/son has never watched either their the 500 or 400.

I think you grossly overestimate the statistical significance of your sample size.

[f500racer]

I specifically bought a car because of the rumors this was going to happen. The bonus is that the 2016 event is 1.5 miles from my house. Life is extremely good for this club racer and I'm so excited for what the club has done to make this happen. This is a big deal! Live the moment.

Jeremy Swank
MO 2016
Indy 2017

[dalz]

News of the Indy Runoffs was near the top of the IndyCar forum for 2 days. Indy fans are interested. By and large they think it's a helluva idea; a coup for BOTH entities. The hardcores will be paying attention....

[mmi16]

I specifically bought a car because of the rumors this was going to happen. The bonus is that the 2016 event is 1.5 miles from my house. Life is extremely good for this club racer and I'm so excited for what the club has done to make this happen. This is a big deal! Live the moment.

Jeremy Swank
MO 2016
Indy 2017

Glad to hear you are making a return Jeremy!

[Marshall Mauney]

Outside the local region Indy is a non event these days.

Riiight......Just like the Monaco Grand Prix, yeah?

I get the feeling that if SCCA got SRF selected as a support race for the Austin F1 race, you would find a way to be negative. Prove me wrong.

[Marshall Mauney]

I think the biggest problem for the average club racer is the incredible expense it takes for the event. The entry fee is enormous, and the commitment of a week+ is not something everyone can do.

Cost is certainly an issue, but I don't think the entry fee is a real issue for most entrants. Frankly, the entry fee is a drop in the bucket of what most of us spend for a Runoffs week+.

I would guess that the great majority of entrants at both Daytona and Laguna Seca spent $10K+. Heck, the tire budget alone will be a lot more than the entry fee for all but the most frugal racers.

[Marshall Mauney]

Regardless, Indy was something I've been pushing for for years, so if its a flop blame guys like me. If there are 1,000 entries......I told you so!

We should start an over/under pool on that 1K entry count! We might not get the full 1K, but I wouldn't bet against the largest Runoffs field in SCCA history. It checks all the boxes for most people - central location, bucket list track, great facility, great talking point for sponsors/friends/family, etc.

This will be a very big deal, and it's going to increase the entry counts all over the place, as guys go to lesser-attended events to rack up qualifying points.

[mmi16]

Cost is certainly an issue, but I don't think the entry fee is a real issue for most entrants. Frankly, the entry fee is a drop in the bucket of what most of us spend for a Runoffs week+.

I would guess that the great majority of entrants at both Daytona and Laguna Seca spent $10K+. Heck, the tire budget alone will be a lot more than the entry fee for all but the most frugal racers.

Set of F500 tires $740 - Entry for Daytona Runoff's $775

[Matt Clark]

I guess I can't really say too much, since I only run FV & have never done a Runoffs. However, all I read is how we need to get participation numbers up & get more people into SCCA. Pretty much the number 1 thing I hear when I try to sell SCCA racing to people, is the costs. I think we need to look at EVERY way to drop the price of road racing. Little here, little there... it will add up to savings to make it tolerable.

Reducing the time it takes to run the event for someone, and some other savings avenues, seems like an easy way to help that. Not everyone has the time off or budget to make it a huge vacation. We've already spent all we can just to get there. Let us qualify thru the year, get to the Runoffs, run our stuff, and go home. I may be naive, but based on everyone I deal with in my racing world, I would bet most people would prefer that. It almost seems like too many people don't get that not everyone can spend $10k, apparently, for a week of racing.

[TDI PILOT]

I totally agree with the last post. If you really take a look at what we put ourselves through for 40 laps of track time spread out over a whole weekend its crazy. I understand the money to rent the race venues needs to come from somewhere but $500+ entry fees for a Major are just too much. Perhaps the SCCA could secure some large season sponsors to help with costs for majors weekends.

You can call circle track racing redneck or whatever, but just for example: A local track here in Michigan has a race EVERY Saturday night all summer long. The entry fee is $30 per class. The payout for a podium finish is between $600 and $1000 depending on where you place. Heck, even a mid-pack finish in a 30 car race gets around $150. You are done by 10:30 PM and on your way home to enjoy the rest of your weekend. Yes, I am comparing two very different forms of Auto racing but, there must be a way to make this easier, cheaper, and more popular in order to achieve deeper fields and ultimately save SCCA road racing from certain extinction.

[Bruce]

Totally against reducing the length of time of the Runoff. Coming from the West Coast, I hate to think I'd spend more time on the road than at the track.

[Hardingfv32]

This will be a very big deal, and it's going to increase the entry counts all over the place, as guys go to lesser-attended events to rack up qualifying points.

This will be a big event but I think it will be a long term negative relative to
Club racing participation. On the West coast the Laguna Runoffs was a big stress on many participant's budgets. Many competitors are simply sitting out the 2015 season. It is very likely that some of these competitors will never return to active racing.
˜
While this style event is good for the club fiances and very appealing to the membership it is not going to be a beneficial long term approach.

Brian

[Marshall Mauney]

Set of F500 tires $740 - Entry for Daytona Runoff's $775

True enough, but that's an outlier. F500 has one of the least expensive tires in club racing. Not that that's a bad thing......

Compare to the guys in GT, FB/FA/FC, T1/T2, P1/P2, etc.

That said, your point is well taken; the entry fee may not be relevant to someone running GT1, FA, or P1, but it could be significant for the guys in F500,FV, HP, etc. where the overall cost structure is a lot lower.

[Dennis McCarthy]

Wonderful to see we are once again on top of things by whining and bitching about an event thats two years away.....

[Marshall Mauney]

. Perhaps the SCCA could secure some large season sponsors to help with costs for majors weekends.

That sounds great, but why would any company other than a racing vendor or a driver's personal company be interested in sponsorship? Aside from the June Sprints, Rose Cup, and a handful of other high-profile events, what exposure is the sponsor getting for their money? As we operate today, the value proposition isn't there.

A local track here in Michigan has a race EVERY Saturday night all summer long. The entry fee is $30 per class. The payout for a podium finish is between $600 and $1000 depending on where you place. Heck, even a mid-pack finish in a 30 car race gets around $150. [...] there must be a way to make this easier, cheaper, and more popular in order to achieve deeper fields and ultimately save SCCA road racing from certain extinction.

The key is getting people into the stands; that drives revenue for the track as well as value for any and all sponsors. When was the last time you saw any paying spectators at an SCCA event (aside from Sprints/Rose Cup)?

I don't think it's because our racing isn't good. Heck, the SM race at Daytona was a seriously great race, as were FV and a whole bunch of other classes....but nobody in town knew we were there.

I think it boils down to two things:

1) Overall SCCA marketing. Make it a household name again, using TransAm and any other known trademarks we have.
2) Figure out how to allow AND ENCOURAGE spectators wherever possible for Majors and the Runoffs, and then give the revenue to the track rather than trying to cash in ourselves. The club will win because spectators in seats will allow teams access to a much wider range of sponsors, which in turn drives race entries, etc. It also would help tracks stay solvent, which in turn eventually reduces our track fees.

[Marshall Mauney]

This will be a big event [...] this style event is good for the club finances and very appealing to the membership

Brian, I agree with this portion of your post.

[SEComposites]

If paying spectators are few and far between anyway then perhaps spectator entry to all SCCA events should be free? Including the Runoffs.

[Peter Olivola]

While SCCA not longer has a sanctioning fee differential between spectator and non-spectator events, tracks do. They have to provide additional staff to for security and clean-up even without ticket sellers/takers and their per event insurance is higher.

If paying spectators are few and far between anyway then perhaps spectator entry to all SCCA events should be free? Including the Runoffs.

[Hardingfv32]

Sounds more like a "racer" parent sorta fell down on the job.

Not so.... Attending SCCA events around the country since age 2. Karting at 7-8 years old, testing FV @ 15-16 and racing SCCA at 21.

Know if my goal was to generate oval racing interest I guess I could have started with Quarter Midget racing and progresses the local oval offerings.

Frankly he would rather be active with a video game rather than inactively watching any form of sports on TV.

Brian

[Steve Demeter]

The Runoffs DID have big sponsors in the past: Champion and Valvoline.

There were very substantial spectator turn outs at Road Atlanta and MO. Why: They were publicized. I live 130 miles from MO and when the Runoffs were there they were advertised in the local papers.

That is how you get the entry fees down.

Heck, for most of the time they were at Road Atlanta, the entry fee was $0 (that is right ZERO). And from what I recall the Atlanta Region rented the track but with their cut of spectator admissions and the Champion sponsorship, then Valvoline, did not have to charge an entry fee.

It has been done in the past, but in today's economy who knows?

[BLS]

Steve, I read somewhere in the past that a great deal of money was once made by SCCA from the use of the naming rights to "TransAm". IIRC, Pontiac underwrote a lot of costs with the payments made to the club.

[DanW]

Steve, I read somewhere in the past that a great deal of money was once made by SCCA from the use of the naming rights to "TransAm". IIRC, Pontiac underwrote a lot of costs with the payments made to the club.

I believe the arrangement was $5 to SCCA for each TransAm sold.

[TDI PILOT]

That sounds great, but why would any company other than a racing vendor or a driver's personal company be interested in sponsorship? Aside from the June Sprints, Rose Cup, and a handful of other high-profile events, what exposure is the sponsor getting for their money? As we operate today, the value proposition isn't there.

All other motor sports racing platforms tap "outside the sport" sponsors. Take a look at Professional motocross, they have pursued large sponsors beyond the confines of their sport like Dodge, Toyota, Chevy, Monster, Red bull, GoPro, Rockstar energy, Soaring eagle casino..etc. With SCCA racing the fan demographic is slightly different, but I believe our sport could easily secure some of these sponsors and drastically lower the cost of these events for everyone and make racing more affordable and actually grow this sport.

[Tiago Santos]

SCCA demographics make it a prime candidate for a Pfizer sponsorship!

[butch deer]

Can anyone who knows comment on the impact of this years "Go Pro" sponsorship of the Daytona runoffs and its impact on either entry fees or worthwhile contingencies to the entrants?

[scott sanda]

Butch,

While I do not know the answer to your question, the sponsorship was Garmin, not Go Pro, and the Garmin people there told me, when I wanted to buy one, that they were specifically not allowed to sell them at the runoffs by SCCA.

My guess, pretty much one shrimp cocktail for Lisa, with a couple for Eric.

One of the ongoing and difficult things about securing non-sport specific (and non participants business) sponsorship is the venue's themselves.

When you talk about Moto, and outside sponsors, you are talking about a closed venue, with seating, and good total even viewing, in a fairly small area. Same thing with roundy round. Local ovals put several hundred people in the stands on Friday nights, sell lots of food and beer, and have a captive audience.

That is very difficult to do at a road course. it is even harder to do in a moving venue, like the runoffs have become.

For good or bad, the current model for runoffs discourages spectators and sponsors.

[Brad Ellingson]

For good or bad, the current model for runoffs discourages spectators and sponsors.

It excludes certain specialties too, which also negative impacts to the overall health of the club.