FF Rules

[TimH]

I guess I'm CF and proud of it.

Iron head and all.

[EYERACE]

for others reference in future sales - sold the ready full prepped bench flowed iron head for $850

[Albatross]

Of course you really don't know what you have until you can see the performance on a Dyno!
Could be a world beater in which case that's an excellent buy. Could be a dud also.

[RKRacer04]

The cast iron head sold by EYERACE was prepared and bench flowed by Arnie Loyning in 1990, and refreshed by Curtis Farley within the last three years or so. The head is race ready and not been installed on a block since being refreshed. It was purchased for $850. Wouldn't you take the chance on a Loyning prepped head that was refreshed by Curtis Farley for $850? I thought it was well worth the gamble. I will report back on the flow bench tests and dyno results. Thanks.

[Jonathan Hirst]

It certainly has a good pedigree. I have had about 6 iron heads pass through my hands, inherited with the car they came with in every case but 1. I never had the fortune of getting a head that would allow me to pull out and pass at will but very few people have so I dont sweat it. As long as it keeps me in the hunt/in the draft what happens in the last corner has less to do with the motor and more to do with the driver.

[Albatross]

RKRacer...Sounds like a good one; good luck, believe that you may have a good one, hope you do well. Folks, there's more iron heads out there. The past few weeks there have been several iron heads advertised while some would like one to believe there is a shortage. Nonsense! That's just an excuse to allow the aluminum head. $$$$ As the Monoposto FF representative said: "if we allow the aluminum head...where does it end?"

[EYERACE]

Yo Alb.....your comment made at 12:19 is so rhetorical as to be unnecessary.......to give all of us here some credit, we could have all come to the same conclusion......I shall not take your comment about my head as a slam against my cred.....and frankly tbe best lab would be out on the track........who buys race ready heads here and then tears 'em down on a flow bench........?

[Beach Racing Cars]

Who doesn't?!

[Albatross]

Yo EYE...Not all the readers are as sophisticated as you. While that head in question may have a good "back ground", purchasing anything, particularly an unknown...through the mail...from a stranger, well ...how many times... just recently have we been alerted.
The purchaser must take the responsibility. There have been lots of new people join Apex speed. LET THE BUYER BEWARE !

[pooch776]

With all of the modern FF guys going to alloy heads, finding a "good" iron head should not be that hard. The issue today is getting a "top shelf" iron head. You can get a top shelf alloy head from your favorite engine builder but it is not very easily to find or build an iron one today.

When the time comes to allow alloy heads in vintage a 40 lb. weight should be added to the car (20 lbs. for the difference in the weight of heads and another 20 lb. penalty). The only guys that will benefit from this rule are those with a top shelf iron head but they already have that advantage today.

Just my two cents, Joe

[Bernard Bradpiece]

Joe
Before we get into the weeds on whether the correct weight is 20lbs or 19.63lbs for the difference in an ally v iron, and whether 20lbs additional is sufficient to offset the difference in horsepower (and we come up with a complex algorithm for horsepower v weight and height of weight as we are want to do!), this is a constructive and interesting suggestion.
BB

[fitfan]

i am just a novice here surrounded by decades of experience... but my thoughts are:

why aren't fords accepted at the marque historic events around the world? if its so critical to keep the fords "historic" then they would be invited right? the couple of historic events that do allow the fords, seems to not care that much about whats being debated here anyways... if run group attendance is what "keeps a run group alive" at events, (not historical accuracy - and as far as i can tell, this IS the reality) then making the cars accessible to own/run/maintain/fix/track is all upside for everyone involved. and every time i have run, there is a min. weight. so i put lots of lead in my car when my leaky iron head was pulled off.

[RKRacer04]

Eye,

Not only are we going to tear down and flow test your "race ready" head but also my head I am currently using and a Curtis Boggs prepared head that a friend of mine is currently racing. I want to see the comparison of all three heads to:

1. See if your race ready head performs better than my current head to see If I got the
deal I was hoping for. If not, it becomes a spare head.
2. Compare your race ready head to a known performer on the track in the Curtis Boggs
head. Hopefully it performs as well as or better than the Boggs head.
3. Get baseline flow test results for comparison of all three heads. Also for future
reference. Seems rather intelligent to me.

I believe this to be a rather prudent investigation on my part. If your head proves to be significantly better than my current head, then it goes on my engine. If not, it's a spare. If your head flows as good as or better than the Cutis Boggs head, then I know I've got that world beater that Albatrosse mentioned in his response. There is no question to your credibility or honesty, just a bit of cautiousness and curiousness on my part. Plus I get a baseline on all three heads. We just happen to have access to a local flow bench. I always like to know that I have spent my money wisely. Who tears down a race ready head to put on a flow bench??? I do!

[EYERACE]

Eye,

Not only are we going to tear down and flow test your "race ready" head but also my head I am currently using and a Curtis Boggs prepared head that a friend of mine is currently racing. I want to see the comparison of all three heads to:

1. See if your race ready head performs better than my current head to see If I got the
deal I was hoping for. If not, it becomes a spare head.
2. Compare your race ready head to a known performer on the track in the Curtis Boggs
head. Hopefully it performs as well as or better than the Boggs head.
3. Get baseline flow test results for comparison of all three heads. Also for future
reference. Seems rather intelligent to me.

I believe this to be a rather prudent investigation on my part. If your head proves to be significantly better than my current head, then it goes on my engine. If not, it's a spare. If your head flows as good as or better than the Cutis Boggs head, then I know I've got that world beater that Albatrosse mentioned in his response. There is no question to your credibility or honesty, just a bit of cautiousness and curiousness on my part. Plus I get a baseline on all three heads. We just happen to have access to a local flow bench. I always like to know that I have spent my money wisely. Who tears down a race ready head to put on a flow bench??? I do!

Wow. A local flow bench! Good deal that you can do that, looking for tenths......might as well if you can. Did Curtis have much to say? Please post something when you know much from the bench as I'm suddenly very curious.

And Alb......by definition, just to have some fun with sophmoric grammer, I guess there is only one 'world beater' in the world.

[SEComposites]

i am just a novice here surrounded by decades of experience... but my thoughts are:

why aren't fords accepted at the marque historic events around the world? if its so critical to keep the fords "historic" then they would be invited right?

They absolutely are. Historic FF's race at the Brands Hatch Superprix, the Silverstone Classic (54 car entry) and get races at Spa, Nurburgring and Zandvort. The first UK race at Donnigton Park is televised. Full grids of pre-72 FF's.

Thats to say nothing of the other age related classes that boast large grids, a national series, The Formula Ford Carnival, the Formula Ford Festival and of course the season ending Walter Hayes Trophy. There were over 120 cars enetered for that race alone.

[pooch776]

BB,

Someone much smarter than me can figure out the correct weight to add. It should also be exclusive of any minimum weight requirements. If the tech guy sees an alloy head, he asks to see where the 40 lbs. (or whatever the chosen weight) is bolted into the car. This would give someone looking for an advantage a reason to stay with iron head.

Joe

[Wes Allen]

OK, I'm dragged into this! Rules, rules, rules! Vintage is about the cars and spirit of racing.Your not supposed to drive 110% anyway!?! Formula Ford has been one of the most popular open wheel classes ever! They have trained thousands of Drivers! Yes, their are some special Vintage Fords out there. But there are some equally nice Club Fords around. Trying to back date a Club ford to fit into the Vintage class is BS. The vintage groups need to recognize Club Fords for what they are and how they were raced in the SCCA. I realize it is a regional class with varying rules but mostly they are consistent. If they wish to be historically correct CF should be on slicks and have what ever engine mods that were allowed to run in SCCA CF rules. Making a CF on slicks run in the High HP open wheel group is a major safety issue. And its only because the owners of VF don't want to be beat by CF and lower their car value?!? Club Fords from 1972-1981 are far more historically significant than some of the stuff they let in that are just a few years old. The Vintage groups need to realize their is a large group of new potential members with period correct cars out there looking for opportunities to race and show their cars off!
Wes Allen
Merlyn MK-025
Eagle DGF

[Bernard Bradpiece]

Wes
Don't know about your area but in the North East we are pretty much there. Monoposto welcomed in Club Ford some years back, to be run in trim of the day (including ally wheels) save that the whole Ford class runs Dunlops (as it happens, Fords were always treaded in Europe). Usually have a strong turnout of Club Fords, most are faster than the Vintage Fords (and a number are really well driven) and that's OK with everybody. Makes for a healthy turnout. The two classes are recognized to be different. If you are running with a winged class that certainly can be dangerous with a massive difference in closing speeds. We usually run with vintage FB's (also on treaded tires) and their closing speeds are fast enough.
Join VRG or VDCA and come and play! Its a welcoming friendly group.
BB

[pooch776]

Wes,

BB has it correct. I purchased my Club Ford (Crossle 45F) about a year ago. I have been running with the VRG in the same race group as the Vintage Fords. It's a great group made up of 14-22 FFs for most race weekends. They use Monoposto FF rules. No slicks, canister shocks or aluminum heads. The treaded Dunlop's are a great equalizer. There is a good mix of Vintage and Club Fords at the front of the field. Some of the Vintage Fords are very well prepared/driven. They are often faster than the Club Fords! You should come join us. You may be surprised how well your car(s) work on treaded Dunlop's. Even the Eagle. We have a couple of Zink Z-10's that were never designed for treaded tires that run very fast on the Dunlop's. The Jefferson 500 at Summit Point is on May 14-18. It would be about an 8 hour tow from Lexington .

Cheers, Joe

[scott fairchild]

Joe,

I know it is short notice, but there should be a good group for the VDCA Wild Hare Run at VIR next month
Another fast Crossle is always welcome

[Beach Racing Cars]

In SOVREN in the Pacific Northwest, the FF and CF run together. Great drivers and cars in both.

[Robert J. Alder]

Ditto, RMVR.

[pooch776]

Thanks Scott and others for your invitations. Next month will not give me enough time to get my car ready. I am working on a number of projects but I plan to be ready for the Jefferson 500. Cheers, Joe