Laguna 2014

[Stan Clayton]

Another Can-Am car on an open trailer...

[Jnovak]

One way or another we will figure out a way to be there. Let's just say for the sake of discussion that the Runoffs will only be at Laguna 1 time ever. You are going to miss it for whatever reason??? No f***ing way.

So what if it is crowded. We will make it work. Besides the west coast deserves the Runoffs IMO!

[Dave SanF 50]

"an old photo from 1969 Mid-Ohio Can Am, Jim Hall pulls in his Cortez motorhome in with his open trailer, carrying his wild 2H"

[La Scuderia Raggi]

Back in the hey day of the can am, we would go to Laguna during the day to watch the cars on track. If you wanted to see them up close and personal, you'd cruise the Monterey dealerships at night. It was in those shops were the real "work" took place. Ask to many questions and you were likely to be tossed a rag and a can of polish.

[rickb99]

..... heck I used to watch Group 44 prepare their cars in the sand at Bridgehampton - and they were still immaculate.....

Heck I used to watch them prepare their cars in the DIRT at Laguna Seca and they were still immaculate.

Same can be said of McLaren, Lola, Porsche and Chaparral (even the sucker cars).

[jhenn4716]

The Runoffs means nothing to me and even less to my driver.

Sorry, after a statement like that you need to shut down your engines. Why even bring all this up if you don't even care?

As for gravel traps, RA has dealt successfully with gravel traps for years. Why should Laguna be any different? I personally have never been there so I can't speak from experience. But being a major track I would be quite certain they can handle getting cars out.

[provamo]

thanks guys for the 2H pics..what is with the number 79..........when was that utilized?

gotta luv the trailer spare tossed in the cockpit LOL

[budawe]

After twenty something years of towing back east, I can't wait for 2014. Yes there will be towing challenges and extra costs but remember we left coasters have been doing it this way for nearly 40 years.

Both the national office and SF region know there will be challenges and they're being addressed as we speak. The Chief Steward at the Runoffs for the past year is also the Deputy Exec Steward for Nor Pac. Not only is Jim Rogaski the gold standard for stewards, his years of operating at Laguna and overcoming it's challenges, go back more than 20 years.

It's easy to cast dispersions, especially if you've never made the Runoffs, but I'm jazzed and am inviting everyone to enjoy one of the premier facilities in the country. It's not an impossible track to learn, it's quite safe with lots of runoff area and most important to a driver who likes to be challenged, it's not asphalt dyno either.

[rickb99]

......gotta luv the trailer spare tossed in the cockpit LOL

Well, you gotta love the days when Max Balchowsky and his wife drove all over the western USA in Old Yeller to the race tracks towing a really, really small trailer for their clothes. If everyone drives their race car to Laguna there will be plenty of room.

P.S.
Ole Yeller was known to whip some Ferrari, Jaguar and Maserati a_ _ back in the day.

[alangbaker]

My only complaint about the Runoffs coming to Laguna Seca in 2014 is that it's a year or two too soon!

I'm just getting started racing and I don't think I can get good enough fast enough to have a chance to qualify.

Other than that personal little niggle, I think it's fantastic.... ...and if I can find a way to be there: I will be there.

[924RACR]

Here is a list of equipment that we have considered essential to bring to the runoffs. Where do you expect us to carry the following?

36-40 sticker tires (you have to pick them up in your home region)
4 sets of tires... <snip>

Well, I guess I know who I'm gonna hit up when I need to borrow any of that equipment...

Don't think I can find room in my tow vehicle for my TIG... (though, in truth, my normal tow vehicle is the minivan in back...)

[Brett Lane]

One way or another we will figure out a way to be there. Let's just say for the sake of discussion that the Runoffs will only be at Laguna 1 time ever. You are going to miss it for whatever reason??? No f***ing way.

So what if it is crowded. We will make it work. Besides the west coast deserves the Runoffs IMO!

That's the spirit!

[S Lathrop]

When the run offs were at Riverside, Ed Zink would arrange for a car hauler to carry as many Zink FVs as you could load. I think the loading point was St. Louis.

Do we really need a 20' or larger enclosed trailer to haul a FV, FF or even an FC to a race?

I think this will be a great track to determine the national championship. The track is very much the challenge that Mid Ohio was. It is also a great track for low HP (less than 250 HP) formula cars.

[Stan Clayton]

thanks guys for the 2H pics..what is with the number 79..........when was that utilized?

gotta luv the trailer spare tossed in the cockpit LOL

Texas International Speedway, 1969. You can read about it here.

[Hardingfv32]

Both the national office and SF region know there will be challenges and they're being addressed as we speak.

Can you provide some insight? Is there a benefit to keeping the process a secret?

What is SCCA's business model now that they are renting the tracks? Can we expect an increase in the entry fee?

Brian

[budawe]

No real secret involved. It's an ongoing process that the track, national staff and SF region are working on. I do know there are some CAD drawings of the pits and parking areas that will get a lot of scrutiny and every attempt to maximize parking will be made. I understand some SF folks are coming to the Runoffs this year to learn first hand, how things are handled. There are hundreds of volunteers who attend the Runoffs and consider the event as important to their schedules as the competitors. Coordinating all these folks from F&C, E-crews and tech is no easy task and much of the ground work is underway. The planning process for the Runoffs is a 12 month thing that starts the Monday after the last race.

Folks, this is a bold step for the club. Being able to move the event annually, working with new tracks every year and having the club move into a promoter's role is a big challenge. A challenge I think we will meet with success. The national staff and your BOD have been working on this for nearly a year.

[FASTDAD]

IMHO this is a great move for the club. Moving things around keeps people on their toes and keeps fresh ideas in the hopper. One of the situations that was addressed by Jeff Dahnert was attitude. This is part of that change going forward. So lets get concerns and ideas out there, deal with them, and have some great Runoffs! I am certainly going to do my best to attend and help this going forward. I bought my car from a shop in San Diego and almost didn't get home because of the drive thru Vail (wife & I didn't want to leave!), it was beautiful. This would be a tow worth doing. Good luck SF region.

[mv1]

As always we can count on Brian's positive outlook .

This should be a great event and I am excited as I haven't been to the RunOffs since 06

Hey Jeff this is Michael Vellone we will be there it will be awsome W e still have the csr and will be pumped and ready

[mv1]

My brother and i have a csr, well a p1 now. We have been to 7 run offs in a gt3 and a csr. May i say it is quite sad when you hear guys not wanting to race on the west coast. We have traveled every time in 8 yrs to go back east mid west or where ever it is no complaints and very underfunded as well. We build our own car design our own parts and build our own rotary engine on no budget. When it was run off time we would paint homes on weekends build light construction jobs as well as hold down out regular jobs. So just show up and race with a smile on your face passion in your hearts and bring your machines and test yourself. No complaining we never did. Its our time not to drive. Lets race

Michael Vellone 1 march

[Jnovak]

My brother and i have a csr, well a p1 now. We have been to 7 run offs in a gt3 and a csr. May i say it is quite sad when you hear guys not wanting to race on the west coast. We have traveled every time in 8 yrs to go back east mid west or where ever it is no complaints and very underfunded as well. We build our own car design our own parts and build our own rotary engine on no budget. When it was run off time we would paint homes on weekends build light construction jobs as well as hold down out regular jobs. So just show up and race with a smile on your face passion in your hearts and bring your machines and test yourself. No complaining we never did. Its our time not to drive. Lets race

Michael Vellone 1 march

Thanks Michael! You got it right.

[Hardingfv32]

Thinks keep getting better...

1) Assuming that there is not going to be any Runoffs test days as we presently know them, running the two SFR Laguna events in 2014 will become important to gain track time. We have the SFR now saying that there could be restriction for out of region competitors:

"It was the SF Board's philosophy from the very beginning that the Runoffs would not negatively impact the local folks. Making sure all the locals could enter Laguna events before allowing out of region folks to enter is just one of their policies. I doubt it will effect anyone but SM & SRF groups but the process of accepting entries is a matter of local policy and not covered by the GCR or the club's operating manual." Mike Smith, RE

2) If you wondered about the 'best of the best' Runoff mantra becoming a little watered down over the years, we now have the NP division getting permission to lower the standards of entry. This pretty much guaranties the gravel traps will be busy.

"SFR wanted to be sure our NORPAC
Division Drivers got a good shot
at running in the Runoffs if they want
to, so our Division submitted an “adjusted”
Runoffs qualification document
which was approved by the National BoD." Mike Smith, RE

Brian

[ccoffin]

What is this adjusted qualification?

[mv1]

So the norpac region get a break in qualifying for the run offs. Explain what that is . I am from Arizona and never heard of that before. Help me understand so i know what i need to do for csr or p1 thanks

Michael Vellone March1

[Wren]

From the SFR region webpage:

1. Compete in ANY NORPAC Majors or Regional race (SF, OR, NW)
2. Participate in 4 weekends (start a race)
3. AND finish 6 races
4. AND finish in the top 50% of the points in class
5. Runoffs invitations earned through this additional path are subject to space availability in each class (not group). Drivers who qualify using options 1-3 will have priority registration. Laguna Seca allows 62 cars so highly-subscribed classes may reach capacity but not one had 62 at the 1st year at Road America in 2009. Remember each class has their own standalone race so no multi-class groups sharing the track.

The * runoffs?

[Bruce]

I would have asked for the inclusion of Cal Club, since they have been working on this as well if not longer.

[Marshall Mauney]

"SFR wanted to be sure our NORPAC
Division Drivers got a good shot
at running in the Runoffs if they want
to, so our Division submitted an “adjusted”
Runoffs qualification document
which was approved by the National BoD." Mike Smith, RE

Since there aren't very many Nationals.Majors within driving/towing distance of Seattle and.or Portland, this might actually make sense....but ho 'bout we let the BOD decide?

[Bruce]

Just found this.

The SFR board negotiated for a fourth alternative. We wanted our Regional racers, who have been supporting the region for years, to have a path to the Runoffs that did not require more time away from work and family, long tows and big gas bills. With the support of the SCCA National Office and National Board of Directors, the following option was adopted for 2014 only:

• Compete in ANY NORPAC Majors or Regional race (SF, OR, NW)
  
  • Participate in 4 weekends (start a race)
  • AND finish 6 races
  • AND finish in the top 50% of the points in class
  • Runoffs invitations earned through this additional path are subject to space availability in each class (not group). Drivers who qualify using options 1-3 will have priority registration. Laguna Seca allows 62 cars so highly-subscribed classes may reach capacity but not one had 62 at the 1st year at Road America in 2009. Remember each class has their own standalone race so no multi-class groups sharing the track.
  
  This year SF Region did not hold a Majors event. Their support of Nationals is less than any region that holds club racing events. Their focus is more towards Regional. It was explained to me as that it is a monetary decision.

• Bruce

[beachguy12]

Thinks keep getting better...

1) Assuming that there is not going to be any Runoffs test days as we presently know them, running the two SFR Laguna events in 2014 will become important to gain track time. We have the SFR now saying that there could be restriction for out of region competitors:

"It was the SF Board's philosophy from the very beginning that the Runoffs would not negatively impact the local folks. Making sure all the locals could enter Laguna events before allowing out of region folks to enter is just one of their policies. I doubt it will effect anyone but SM & SRF groups but the process of accepting entries is a matter of local policy and not covered by the GCR or the club's operating manual." Mike Smith, RE

2) If you wondered about the 'best of the best' Runoff mantra becoming a little watered down over the years, we now have the NP division getting permission to lower the standards of entry. This pretty much guaranties the gravel traps will be busy.

"SFR wanted to be sure our NORPAC
Division Drivers got a good shot
at running in the Runoffs if they want
to, so our Division submitted an “adjusted”
Runoffs qualification document
which was approved by the National BoD." Mike Smith, RE

Brian

Eyoree.. Stay home and keep Christopher Robin and Poo company

[rickb99]

.......This year SF Region did not hold a Majors event. Their support of Nationals is less than any region that holds club racing events......

Well, the Northwest region isn't far behind. ONE Double Major this year combined with the Montana Region and it drew 65 Majors entry's. Back ten years it would have drawn over 200 with cars coming up from California to run the Seattle double and then move down to Portland for a National the following weekend.

Actually we used to get people making the Grand Tour towing in from the east coast.

Geez, we've actually held regionals combined with Hawaii!!

No more

[Anthony Tabacco]

There are a few interesting assumptions on this thread. The issues like sound windows, total paddock area, lack of test days, etc. are coming from...where? Not insider information I can say with some degree of certainty. The 2014 schedule is not set, no supps have been published, so I don't know your basis for the predicted event disaster. Bluntly, you do not appear to know what you are talking about. And if you don't like gravel, you should probably stay out of it.

Pay attention: The Runoffs as a business model and the qualification path was deeply flawed as it has been traditionally practiced, something had to change. Rotation and controlling the 'path to' is an imaginative first step to saving (read this literally!) the event. You should know that 2014 changes more than just the venue; the financing model and the relationship between the club and the hosting track as it moves around the country is now very different. I may have personal reservations about how the Majors program will ultimately play out in the coming seasons, and the underlying relationships between National and the many Regions, but that does not in any way diminish the validity of National's decision to take the show on the road, and they deserve credit for sound business judgement.

Laguna Seca: From my first visit there in 1964, it took me more than 40 years to finally be able to drive a race car over the corkscrew. I don't think it hyperbole to say there is not a racer alive who does not have Laguna on their bucket list. This season as it has every season, the hosting San Francisco Region will support The Grand-Am, ALMS, the Monterey Historics, all major efforts, all at the Runoff destination track; it has done so since 1957. I also don't think it is hyperbole to say the Region knows how to welcome and support this event.

I hope the above is not too strident, but I really want to say that if it isn't convincing enough, then hey, it's your call, don't come. We will put on a well run event, but we also will want it to be a fun and happy event.

And the rest of you, hit me up for restaurant reviews when the time comes- this place is terrific for visiting and dining out!

tony

[GT1Vette]

Just found this.

The SFR board negotiated for a fourth alternative. We wanted our Regional racers, who have been supporting the region for years, to have a path to the Runoffs that did not require more time away from work and family, long tows and big gas bills. With the support of the SCCA National Office and National Board of Directors, the following option was adopted for 2014 only:

• Compete in ANY NORPAC Majors or Regional race (SF, OR, NW)
  
  • Participate in 4 weekends (start a race)
  • AND finish 6 races
  • AND finish in the top 50% of the points in class
  • Runoffs invitations earned through this additional path are subject to space availability in each class (not group). Drivers who qualify using options 1-3 will have priority registration. Laguna Seca allows 62 cars so highly-subscribed classes may reach capacity but not one had 62 at the 1st year at Road America in 2009. Remember each class has their own standalone race so no multi-class groups sharing the track.
  This year SF Region did not hold a Majors event. Their support of Nationals is less than any region that holds club racing events. Their focus is more towards Regional. It was explained to me as that it is a monetary decision.

• Bruce

Just to be clear, SOPAC was granted a similar alternative path (it was approved for the entire Western Conference) as part of their divisional plan.

[Bruce]

Just to be clear, SOPAC was granted a similar alternative path (it was approved for the entire Western Conference) as part of their divisional plan. __________________
Butch Kummer
SCCA Director of Club Racing, Majors
2006, 2007, 2010 SARRC GTA Champion


Let me say as a member of the SF Region, glad it rewarded them as well for their endeavors.

[greg pizzo]

Eyoree.. Stay home and keep Christopher Robin and Poo company

AMEN !!!!!
if you haven't been to Laguna but 2x in 10 years.... really !! ??? and you are worried the about the Runoffs ??

This event may have a few challenges but not insurmountable, its a great track and is on a lot of people's bucket lists, ONE can AWAYS complain about anything, at some point people just stop listening ... try to think of SOME thing positive to say and people might be glad you came

...just sayin

[Hardingfv32]

There are a few interesting assumptions on this thread. The issues like sound windows, total paddock area, lack of test days, etc. are coming from...where? Not insider information I can say with some degree of certainty. The 2014 schedule is not set, no supps have been published, so I don't know your basis for the predicted event disaster.

My statements and questions are based on 25 years on knowledge of racing at the track. I would assume someone would have challenge some of my statements if they were wrong.

1) We have operated under sound restrictions for a good two decades. It would be my assumption that the wealthy neighbors have not softened their view of track activities. I do not see why there would be any change in the sound allotment for the track. That being the case it is impressive that SCCA was given 7 days for the event. This also would seem to indicate that there is no sound available for test days.

The track is owned by the county. It is part of a regional park. The track is operated by SCRAMP who rents the track out. SCRAMP does not have personnel or equipment to run a open test. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been an open test day as they are known at most tracks.

2) Paddock space: I have arrived at <250 car events the night before the event and had an extremely hard time finding a paddock space. These were Regional events so there was a limited number of tracker/trailers, busses, and toter-homes. I should mention that SFR has always had very efficient paddock marshals, so very little paddock space is waisted.

3) Gravel traps: Experience them from day one. On 'average' you could plan on losing 1/3 of your track time to black flags or PCs. This would be over a say 3 or 4 events. Seen a large group, 45+ cars, race almost entirely under the pace car. With larger groups, more lost time is almost certain.

Even if you bring in F1 type crane removal, you are not going to solve the problem. Since the death of a worker, SFR has become the most conservative I have witnessed in the country when it comes to putting personnel on a live track. If this ethos carries over to the operation of the Runoffs, then serious downtime is certain.

While it is true that SFR is capable of putting on the Runoffs by themselves, to date they have done very little is solve the down time caused by the gravel traps. I have never seen them build in a time cushion in the event schedule to help with lost track time. Each session eats the time lost.

So what are the possible solutions available for the Runoffs? Practice and Qualifying is two classes per session in the 2013 seven day event. 2014 is a seven day event, so do you think the two class groupings will remain? "With larger groups, more lost time is almost certain."

4) What is SCCA's business model now that they are renting the track? Where is the money coming from to rent the track and pay for National's administrative budget? Are Majors and Runoff entry fees going up?

Just asking questions about some interesting problems. Laguna is a wonderful track under the correct conditions.

Brian

[Steve Demeter]

Forget all that.

Special consideration for entry to the Runoffsa just because of the division you are in.

Let's get real here.

Why were not such considerations given when the RO's were at Atlanta, MO, Topeka and RA?????

Sounds like total foolishness to me.

Now we will be certain to not have a true national champion.

What a load of crap.

Don't even get me started on regions restricting entries from out of dividion drivers.

Such things should disqualify a region from SCCA and be grounds for revocation of their charter.

Boy and I thought we had a good bunch on the BOD this time around.

I feel truly mistaken.

Other regions welcomed out of division drivers to their races when the Runoffs were held at other venues.

[Wren]

Forget all that.

Special consideration for entry to the Runoffsa just because of the division you are in.

Let's get real here.

Why were not such considerations given when the RO's were at Atlanta, MO, Topeka and RA?????

Seriously. It's not like these ridiculous majors are close for most people. They don't seem particularly desirable either.

Now we will be certain to not have a true national champion.

This.

Again, this runoffs will deserve an * for whoever wins.

[racerdad2]

Restricting entries ? That's counter-productive... Too many entires ? Run heat races to thin the herd... Not enough spaces in the paddock ? Smaller spaces... Too sandy ? Bring plywood... Poor communication ? Temporary FM radio short range broadcast... Problems ? Look for solutions... My chances of running at Laguna Seca are slim & none. None-the-less, gonna try... Bucket List

[greg pizzo]

Forget all that.

Special consideration for entry to the Runoffsa just because of the division you are in.

Let's get real here.

Why were not such considerations given when the RO's were at Atlanta, MO, Topeka and RA?????

Sounds like total foolishness to me.

Now we will be certain to not have a true national champion.

What a load of crap.

Don't even get me started on regions restricting entries from out of dividion drivers.

Such things should disqualify a region from SCCA and be grounds for revocation of their charter.

Boy and I thought we had a good bunch on the BOD this time around.

I feel truly mistaken.

Other regions welcomed out of division drivers to their races when the Runoffs were held at other venues.

I've never seen anyone turned away for any reason here in the SFR, Ive been racing a LOONG time here, if you come I'm certain they will take your money and let you run!

Most of this negativity has little to do with REAL problems .. mostly imaginary ... come and have a great time learning a new track !! its not as simple as you might think ... but guaranteed you will get more than 6-7 laps per-session to get your learning in ... not like Road America where an outsider has little to NO chance of getting it done the first year you try 6-7 laps per-session makes it pretty tough 15-20 laps makes it a lot more doable so come on out and enjoy the experience ..

it's tough to have to make that long tow ... for once, if you do Im sure you will be glad you did!

I still consider the LONG tow I did all on my own to Road America and Mid-O one of the best things I have done in a long while, for the experience of it ... didn't "KILL IT" that trip but next time I'd be A LOT closer ..

[Marshall Mauney]

Forget all that.

Special consideration for entry to the Runoffsa just because of the division you are in.

Let's get real here.

Why were not such considerations given when the RO's were at Atlanta, MO, Topeka and RA?????

I'd bet it's because of the limited number of Majors available to the people running out West. Those of us in CenDiv, SEDiv, and NEDiv have plenty of opportunities to race within a reasonable tow distance, so it's no big deal to get enough events in to have a shot at qualifying; when I was in NorPac, I basically had one National opportunity per year that I could get to.

Is it totally fair? No, but it's probably a reasonable accomodation - so long as it doesn't create a situation where one division gets to stack the deck and eliminate competitors from other regions. Let's be honest, too - what's the likelihood of someone using that special rule to weasel their way in, then podium finish? If it happens, somebody got really lucky, and it would likely be the Cinderella story of the year.....

[Rennie Clayton]

Special consideration for entry to the Runoffsa just because of the division you are in.

...

Now we will be certain to not have a true national champion.

Again, this runoffs will deserve an * for whoever wins

As a Left Coast guy who's made the pilgrimage a few times out to the Runoffs on a few occasions, I say cry me a f*cking river; an additional qualification option was opened which will be subject to space availability in each class. In other words - there will be precisely zero entries taken away from otherwise deserving competitors.

Whoever wins at this Runoffs will be National Champion, pure and simple, without any caveats or conditions.

*, my ass.


Cheers,
Rennie