FF at a Pro Solo - Tips and Tricks

[DougW]

Hey Everyone,

Next weekend will be my first Pro Solo in a FF. Any tips or tricks? How do you manage the launches to avoid breakage? How do you manage engine heat etc. I know some of you have had some success as this. What are your thoughts?

We will be at Mineral Wells in Texas. It should be warm but not hot, the surface is asphalt.

Thanks!

Doug Wille

[chrisw52]

for the launches, make sure you have a fixed first gear installed. The rest is up to you and your personal preference on gear ratios. you should expect to run in 2nd through 4th gear depending on how short the ratios are that you select.

For cooling, bring a water sprayer (one of those hand pumped pesticide garden sprayers) and use it to cool your radiators and if its hot enough, too cool your tires between runs. One of my competitors mWizard has also fitted a small 8" electric fan that he runs while on grid. I might do the same for hotter days.

[Neil_Roberts]

A small fan on the radiator helps prevent overheating while the car is stationary, but it won't cool the engine. It will just maintain the temperature that it was turned on at. So, early and often. Good luck!

[mwood]

for the launches, make sure you have a fixed first gear installed. The rest is up to you and your personal preference on gear ratios. you should expect to run in 2nd through 4th gear depending on how short the ratios are that you select.

For cooling, bring a water sprayer (one of those hand pumped pesticide garden sprayers) and use it to cool your radiators and if its hot enough, too cool your tires between runs. One of my competitors mWizard has also fitted a small 8" electric fan that he runs while on grid. I might do the same for hotter days.

Can't use a sprayer in the Pro format, unfortunately. You run 4 consecutive runs, 2 each side, with a very brief time gap between.

Without adding a fan, only thing you can do is make sure your water to water wetter ratio is right, I guess. Does the car run hot?

On launches, I think wheelspin (within reason) is your friend. It avoids bogging and also is easier on the drivetrain. If you're running a 4 gear set up, I've found no reason not to short shift the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts...again, within reason! That should have you all settled and set up for the first element on course.

[Dick R.]

Hey Everyone,

Next weekend will be my first Pro Solo in a FF. Any tips or tricks? How do you manage the launches to avoid breakage? How do you manage engine heat etc. I know some of you have had some success as this. What are your thoughts?

We will be at Mineral Wells in Texas. It should be warm but not hot, the surface is asphalt.

Thanks!

Doug Wille

Make sure you do the practice starts on Friday. Buy extras. Get in line EARLY!

Wheelspin within reason to avoid bog and maybe even leaving too early.

Really good battery so you can shut of the engine whenever possible but keeping in mind carb heat build up.

Really good synthetic oil so the engine can handle high temps. Make sure you have a pressure cap but not too high or you might blow the rad somewhere

Dick

[DougW]

Hey Everyone!

Thanks for the replies everyone. Great info!

The car cools as well as any Kent in a Swift, which means it stays cool while on course, but multiple back to back runs will quickly get it up to 200. The quote in the good book of all things Swift (from Peter) was "avoid going over 200". At local events when it starts to get hot we just spray it and take a break. Not being able to spray will be the big issue for cooling. I still have the brass rad and am considering switching to aluminum and adding a fan (but not before this event!). I do run water wetter and water. Frankly if it gets too hot I'll just park it. We are going for fun and to support our buddies in the Texas Region. Having said that, Pros are my wife's favorite events so I need to insure the car is fully capable.

The battery is very good (knock on wood) and it should allow me to stop and start with ease.

The launch was my other concern. I am not concerned with doing it quickly (yet). Mostly concerned with keeping everything together. I will be doing practice starts so I'll get a feel for it then. Sounds like a reasonable amount of spin to keep things together.

Ill let you know how it goes, feel free to chime in if you think of anything else and thanks letting learn from your experience.

Best,

Doug

[george schilling]

I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Wheel spin is a must. Too much wheel spin is a no-no. Since we're a peg leg car, you may want to rotate your rear tires between sessions to keep wear even.

In pro solo format, mod cars can have help staging if needed. It the launch area is not level to the point of the car rolls without brakes applies, you can chock a wheel with a towel if need be or just heel toe the start.

Stage deep and be consistent with your staging.

Remember what you did on each launch and compare that to your reaction and 60' times. If they're still available, you can check out my launch times from tomorrow's El Toro results or last years El Toro results so you can see if you're in the ballpark. Generally, Joey and I are pretty quick to 60' After that it's anybody's guess! LOL

Don't be disappointed if you're the slowest launching mod car because you will be. FF is slow out of the gate.

You'll figure it out after a few practice launches and certainly by the end of the first session.

[DougW]

Thanks George! Do you guys have any issue with cooling?

Good Luck at El Toro.

Doug

[PCalhoun]

I'll chime in by only saying he has the most highly developed car in the whole CM class. Other than heat in TX I'd have no concerns.

Expect a 0-60 off the lights if the straight is long enough and at about 4.0 sec.

Drive fast, have fun!

[Dick R.]

George - Why deep stage? I shallow stage, leave on the last yellow and still red light if slight bog. FYI CM 60 ft times tend to be 1.8 or so.

Good luck to all you guys. I'll be at the NJ and DC and maybe Blytheville Pros.

Dick

[mwizard]

I may have to try a Pro. Sounds like lots of fun.
Mark

[DougW]

Of all the forms of Solo, the Pro's are Jackie's favorite. It should be a fun weekend and lots of runs and stiff competition make it great for driver training.

That and I really like the atmosphere at "big" events. Looking forward to meeting some of you folks (and hopeful seeing Neil and Peter again) as the year progresses.

Doug

[george schilling]

Doug I think we've had more trouble with the driver overheating than the car. We don't use an auxiliary fan. On hot days we may see temps in grid as high as 230. In San Diego, we had to keep the car idling on one occasion to keep the temp up. Outdoor air temp was around 70. I like to see at least 180 for water temp and an oil pressure drop to 10-20 lbs. at slow idle. That's my indicator that the oil has warmed to operating temp.

Dick I should have used a different term to describe my staging. I creep slowly and stop immediately upon seeing the second stage light. Like you, I launch on a new last yellow. It seems to me the ideal lauch RPM at El Toro was 4K. If I get any decent launches, I'll report back what worked.

Doug, thank you for the good thoughts. I think we should do well. The course seem to flow nicely. I'm anticipating only one downshift to second near the finish. Might throw in another downshift at the turnaround at the far end. Going to play that by ear.

Jeff Kiesel is there with the green monster. KJ Christopher should be top scratch time in his A-mod car, and of course Eric and Jon will be tough competition as usual in thier C-mod car. It will be interesting to see if we can compete with the new index for this year. Last year, we got blown away.

I hope to capture our runs on video. With all the distractions/problems we had in San Diego just getting the car to grid, I complety forgot to take video. Hopefully, I'll remember this time.

[george schilling]

Man, I forgot to mention Mark Huffman in that group of great drivers. Hope he doesn't read this. LOL

John Edwards also has the mushroom in that class, I believe a '67 Fiat. Fun to watch. I hope I didn't overlook him with the new index. For those that have never been to a welcome party at El Toro, John is the chief chef. He makes a killer chili and a huge bowl of wonderful guacamole right on there on his tailgate. Then he and I handle the BBQ'ing. KJ's Christopher's wife Stacey always bakes cookies, pastries and other delightful treats. If there is better food at a welcome party, I'd like to know where! LOL

I also heard we have a new attendence record for an El Toro Pro.......236.

[DougW]

He makes a killer chili and a huge bowl of wonderful guacamole right on there on his tailgate. Then he and I handle the BBQ'ing. KJ's Christopher's wife Stacey always bakes cookies, pastries and other delightful treats. If there is better food at a welcome party, I'd like to know where! LOL

There ya go. I love big events!

All I have to run against is some guy named Saunders in a BM car

I'll take everyones advice, worry less, and have fun.

[mwood]

George, I can tell you I've never had better welcome party food at a Pro or Tour

I do really enjoy the bbq Saturday night at the Packwood Pro, put on at the local firehouse by the firefighters, though.

Good luck and have fun!

[DougW]

Nice running by the FF cars today. Top four spots. Good luck tomorrow!

[george schilling]

Hey Mike, why don't you bring your car down to El Toro at the end of June for the Super Regional. We have a great welcome party there also.

I heard through the grapevine that you doing quite well with the car. Get that puppy down here where compare. We battle every event here. I've usually been the slowest but I'm narrowing the gap every outing. We really a great time.

The hotel I'm staying is a brand spanking new Holiday Inn that is very close to El Toro. Priceline, about $60. So come on down!

Back to the Pro Solo. We didn't take any practice starts on Friday. We thought the start was flat and didn't come prepared for a slight roll. We have got to be the least prepared team I've ever seen. LOL

So while we were fighting a slope and a clutch problem, Jon and Eric were cruising with the tire choc they made. They were staging each other and made it look so easy. We took the cue and made one for round two. But we had an additional problem of a clutch hydraulic leak that is causing heck with our launches. Nontheless, my 60' time were pretty consistant at about 2 seconds flat, but that's where my victories end.

Looking at the times, I'm very lucky to be sitting in second and know I have to up my game Sunday if I'm to have a chance. Jon is just killing us so far and the Clements car seems consistantly faster this weekend. Being this close, I'd love to ditch the extra weight we carry for Joey to make weight. I think a new system is in order. LOL

Oh, and btw, of the 7 cars that entered R1, at least one, possibly two are now out of the competition. Only Jeff Kiesel is a definate tomorrow of the non C-mods. So we can celebrate the fact that our C-mods are generally pretty bullet proof and seem to have fewer insurmountable breakdowns.

I just reread what I wrote. I'm tired. You'll have to figure out what I meant because I'm not making corrections. LOL

[Dick R.]

Jon and Eric were cruising with the tire choice they made. But we had an additional problem of a clutch hydraulic leak that is causing heck with our launches.

George,

Great report! I would have just gone to bed. I hope Sunday goes/went well for all you CM guys and that one of you wins the Challenge!!! Make sure Howard knows that that Jeff K was "slow" due to either car problems or the Avons. We don't need an early season index adjustment.

Tell us about the tire choice Jon and Eric made.

Been there, done that with the clutch hydraulics in a Pro. Had to add fluid between runs when the format was 2 and 2 and, as I recall, in early rounds of the Challenge before being eliminated. Even had to pump the clutch coming up to the line.

Dick
CM and R1 85

[mwood]

George, thanks for the report.

Nice job yesterday by the whole CM crew! Work has not allowed me any time to think about two day events with tows, unfortunately. I'll see about the June weekend, hopefully it can work. btw, Mark is exaggerating about how fast I'm going...lots of work before I can run with you guys.

I just went through a prolonged chasing of a clutch hydraulic leak and now consider myself an expert (LOL). The system is pretty simple, it is just getting at the darn slave that is a PIA. Let me know if I can help with any questions.


I hate to say it, but the indices they've come up with for Pro this year are going to come under a lot of general complaining after this weekend.

[DougW]

I am not a fan of indexes...having left that turd in the punchbowl...

Pro indexes are difficult to manage because they should take into account the ability of various cars to launch quickly. This "launch effect" will have a different impact on courses of different length. In other words the launch effect is a bigger percentage of the total time on a 30 second course than a 50 second course. Surface conditions also play into this. Cars that launch hard will have a relative advantage on a sticky surface and a relative disadvantage on a surface that is not so grippy.

I hope HD is slow to reset the indexes and gathers more data.

Having said all of that, it looks to me like CM kicked butt yesterday. Good luck today everyone!

Doug

[mwood]

Indexing just flat out doesn't work with enough consistency or predictability to allow true and fair competition. The increased use in Solo is just an indication of how diluted the sport has become due to proliferation of classes.

At least CM doesn't seem to be on the short end of the stick, presently. I'm sure the other competitors in R1 would agree

[DougW]

Indexing just flat out doesn't work with enough consistency or predictability to allow true and fair competition. The increased use in Solo is just an indication of how diluted the sport has become due to proliferation of classes.

At least CM doesn't seem to be on the short end of the stick, presently. I'm sure the other competitors in R1 would agree

Yup. We are of one mind on indexing and dilution!

[george schilling]

Well, things didn't work out exactly how Team Schilling would have liked. This was Team Clements weekend. Jon continued his hot driving taking the class and Eric jumped in for second. Not only did Jon make the Super Challenge, he advanced to the final for the second time but was edged out my STR driver Jon Lugog. The first time, if I recall, he was the youngest to win it. So, a huge congratulations the Team Clements for a great performance this weekend!

As for how bad we stunk, I'm reviewing the video and can confirm we drove poorly. It was not a pretty performance. Joey and I trailed the pack and finished 5th and fourth respectively, about 1.3 seconds behind Jon. Jeff Kiesel worked some magic with his car and took third. KJ Chistopher broke a jack shaft in the Acme Special A-mod car and Mark Huffman's Lotus was towed off yesterday never to be seen again. Don't know what happened to his car.

But all in all, it was a beautiful weekend, great weather with highs around 70 both days with a light breeze to keep one cool. Couldn't ask for better autocross weather. So despite the poor finish for us, we were autocrossing at a great venue with good friends, so things are good. I'm very happy for Jon and Eric and their performance. Now, back to the drawing board so Team Schilling can get back on top......at least locally.

[DougW]

George,

All you folks looked pretty fast to me. Good job. Great drive by Jon Clements. My kids thought I was crazy as I yelled "go little red car go" at my computer screen while making chili.

You folks were fun to watch and put on a clinic on staging a CM car. Can't wait for this coming weekend. I have quite a bit of driving improvement to go through before I am moving as quick as you are.

Doug

[george schilling]

Yeah, we had a great time and learned a lot at this event. Glad you could catch it on You Tube.

You know I know both Jon's who competed in the final very well. I watched Jon finish ahead of Jon. But after it was over, I somehow got it in my head that Jon had defeated Jon. I believe I confused the Jon's. LOL

However, thank's to Dick who sent me a heads up, I've edited the post to give an accurate reporting. Thanks guys for keeping me straight!

[ewcmr2]

A little late to the party...

Thanks for all the kind words and cheering on the "little red car"!

Tips/tricks:
we have had cooling issues, I added two 7" fans and like Neil said it won't cool the car but will maintain temp. We started our competition runs with the water around 160* and it never went over 200*. During the challenge I sprayed the radiator once.

To use a wheel chock (for cars without reverse or difficult to engage reverse) you are supposed to ask ProSolo staff first. Use something soft on a tether, apply from outboard side, move away from car before shot clock buzzer sounds.

We ran Hoosiers, 70* is too cold for GY. After the event Jon realized the R25b can get too hot. In the round of 4 and final round the car was washing out in the turn arounds when all weekend it had stuck.

After competition Sunday morning and car was impounded I had a brief moment of panic. "we need to charge the battery" It didn't take long to get impound to approve removing the battery and charging it at our trailer. If your battery isn't easy to remove/install have a plan to charge it in impound.

[Dick R.]

After competition Sunday morning and car was impounded I had a brief moment of panic. "we need to charge the battery" It didn't take long to get impound to approve removing the battery and charging it at our trailer. If your battery isn't easy to remove/install have a plan to charge it in impound.

Eric,

Thanks for the report and the great show that Jon put on in the Challenge! What battery do you use and does it run the fans? You might consider running the fans from an external battery. A lithium equivalent to the Ballistic 16 cell might be enough also even with the fans. With only one driver and no fans even a 17 Ah AGM was plenty for my morning runs and Challenge wins.

Dick

[Larry R Metz]

Sounds like having several batteries for the week-end to change out might be a good idea?

If a VW can ever be competitive, it sounds like cooling will be a major issue with them, since most do not use fans.

VW drivers may have to rethink their gearing setup if these types of events are going to become more popular.

Has anyone seen any VW's at events this year yet??? I am collecting email addresses as I try to organize the Anhydrous group in C mod.

[Dick R.]

Sounds like having several batteries for the week-end to change out might be a good idea?

Talk to Pegasus about how well the Ballistic lithium's hold up in road racing. At their price "several" is probably out of the question. I keep mine topped up simply because I can thanks to a genset. Before the genset when using a 17 Ah AGM the 88 Mustang tow vehicle charging system worked fine. I just waited until the charging voltage got below 15 before connecting the race car battery. Since most events were HOT I then sat in the Mustang enjoying the A/C.

FYI there is a Tui Super Vee registered in R1 for the NJ Pro (Doug Rauco). My guess is it is a BM car.

Be sure to check out the CM numbers list thread that Pru maintains.

Dick
CM 85

[DougW]

Hey Eric. Great tips thanks! I watched you using the chock. We used to have one (about 100 years ago). I will make a new one.

I have a small Honda inverter and a charger that plugs in to the back of the car (one of the many useful features Peter put on). The battery (an SBS I forget which one) has been great at holding a charge so far. I will watch how the engine temps work out. the car cools so well when it is moving!

[Jon C]

We have a separate on-board battery to run the fans off of, and we use a jumper battery to start it so basically all that battery does is run the ignition. So charging the battery was more of a precautionary measure, at least I think it would have been fine. As for cooling we didn't really use the fans all that much, there's not much wait time between runs and while moving it keeps itself cool pretty well.

[DougW]

Hey All,

A brief trip report. I tried everyones tips and tricks. They all worked, we had an awesome time and I managed a 4th place trophy in the combined R1/R2.

The car was flawless with handling that went from strength to strength as I drove it better. More on that later. Suffice it to say that Peter did a stunning job making this car turn, stop, and go.

Cooling - Temps were in the 70's both days with a stiff breeze (10-15 mph). The sun was out the whole time. Courses were 37 seconds long with a mix of 2nd and third gear elements. I made sure to prewarm the car before going to grid. The car really like to be warmed up to 190 degrees of water temp and then shut down to "heat soak" a bit before you go out and drop the hammer. I hit the first start of each session at 170 degrees water temp. I shut it after each finish and coasted to the scanner position. My son and wife pushed me (thanks Michael and Jackie) to the burnout box. then I fired it up and drove the rest of the way. For the final pair of runs in each session I would leave the line at 197-204 degrees water temp. Just after the finish lights it would be 195 degrees. So cooling was fine. On a 100 degree day it might be a different story. Oil temps rose the whole time, with the highest I saw being 175 (from memory I am too lazy to get my notes). I worried for no reason (as usual).

Launching - I took the Evo Holeshot school. It was great and I got the procedures down quickly but I had real trouble launching the car. Jackie said "let me try". She hopped in and on her first launch hit a .58x light with a 1.9x 60 foot time. Then she did it again. Clearly the car had no issues with launching. The trick was to bring the motor to 2700 rpm, at the third yellow slip the clutch just a hair while squeezing the gas pedal down. Ease and squeeze. It worked every time. I got better and better at the lights ending the event with a series of .5xx times and generally managed 2.0 60 foot times. It just worked like a champ. Nice.

On the second day starting line traction went up and this made my 60 foot times drop to 2.2's. I suspect this is because I was getting less wheelspin and hence slower acceleration. It was a small thing, but something to think about for next time.

As an aside, I ran against an assortment of cars that I never saw or heard once we lined up. The exception was Tommy Saunders BM Dragon. You can HEAR that car leave. It sounds like the Texas chain saw massacre coming just for you! Tommy is a local hero so it was a real treat to line up with him. The little Swift would hold its own off the lights until the first corner at which point a I would ease up to turn and he would fly by in my peripheral vision like a yellow missile. It was epic and made launching the car incredible fun for me.

Staging - As noted above, you simply must have someone stage you. The start at Mineral Wells was on a pretty good hill so the car would roll out of the lights. Even if it was flat I would want someone to roll me in and chock the car. Hats off to my son Michael. At 15 years old he is wise and calm in ways I will never be. He stepped in and staged/chocked me consistently every time. He also did all the little things I need (yes I am a needy driver) like handing me my helmet when I strapped in with out grabbing it. Not too much longer and he will get to run the car with us. I can't wait.

Charging - The battery easily ran a session and frankly would have done a whole day with no issue. Still, after each session I fired up the Honda (inverter - not Fit) and charged the battery.

Tires - Mineral Wells is a bit of cheese grater, but the Hoosiers held up well. They were slick on first runs, but great by run two and never overheated. I would start with pressures a bit below normal cold pressure and end with perfect pressures for the last two runs. Depending on how many cars they send with you there isn't always time to adjust pressures between runs.

Driving - As always my wife is my best driving coach. At this event I had the rare pleasure of advice from Tommy and Rachel Saunders and Stuart Lumpkin. The three of them are a gold mine of information and I am very lucky to have them around.

Thanks also to Peter Calhoun for always being there for advice and answers when I shoot him emails. For service after the sale Peter has no Rival (ha! I couldn't resist). Thanks to Jim Justice for talking with me about engine temps.

Time to go unload and clean off the car. To quote Scca equipment honcho Clancy Schmidt "There is dust on the tail. Peter didn't allow dust".

Hope to see some of you in Lincoln or Blytheville.

Doug

P.S. - Yikes not so brief!

[george schilling]

Sounds like you had a great time and mastered the launch. All good Doug. Thanks for the write up. And of course, congratulations or your great finish!

[Dick R.]

I'm glad to see we have 5 or 6 new CM "converts" to the fun of Pro Solo in a CM car this year!!! Hopefully Sho Torii and Bill Schenker (in Sho's car) will get hooked at the NJ Pro this weekend (but not be faster than me ) Hopefully the new and remaining CM crew in the Midwest will signup for the events in their area.

Keith Averill is shipping a new clutch M/C to me for installation Tuesday so I can hopefully have a "clutch" instead of direct drive for the NJ Pro and Dover Tour the next two weekends!

Direct drive "start the run with the starter" doesn't work for a normal autocross, let alone a Pro.

I'm really looking forward to getting to use the new set of Hoosiers which only got 4 runs at Nationals. Hopefully they wake up after the long sleep. Dead slicks are the only excuse I have for poor runs this weekend prior to the clutch issue.

Dick
CM 85
R1 85

[DougW]

Thanks George, it was great fun, and thanks for the advice. Frankly I had forgotten how much fun Pro Solo is. One additional note, the top of my right shoulder looks like somebody went after it with a ball peen hammer. Ouch. More padding required.

Those tires should wake up on run number two Dick. Good luck this weekend and next. We will be watching via Ustream!

Doug

[RudeDude]

Hey Dick, I look forward to seeing you this weekend! It looks like Saturday's weather is questionable. Any tips on driving an FF in the rain? I have an old set of rains if there is standing water. Do I disconnect the sway bars and set the shocks to the softest to run the rains? That's what I used to with my CSP Miata.

[Dick R.]

Hey Dick, I look forward to seeing you this weekend! It looks like Saturday's weather is questionable. Any tips on driving an FF in the rain? I have an old set of rains if there is standing water. Do I disconnect the sway bars and set the shocks to the softest to run the rains? That's what I used to with my CSP Miata.

Sho,

I had to cancel due to a clutch problem that required removing the rear module of the car and ordering parts. The whole rear portion of the car is currently separated from the front/engine by a couple of feet. The cool/wet forecast made cancelling less painful but we were looking forward to seeing you guys.

Will you be going to the Tour in Dover the following weekend? We intend to be there.



Regarding the rain . . . beats me. I've actually never used the rain tires I've owned including the fresh set purchased last year. For a Pro it might not be worth the trouble if only one session is wet since no matter what you do in the wet, dry sessions will be faster, even in the cool weather predicted for both days. Kelly and I are not exactly a speedy tire change team since we only have a scissor jack at events (space constraints) and therefore can only raise one wheel at a time.

Dick

[RudeDude]

Sho,

I had to cancel due to a clutch problem that required removing the rear module of the car and ordering parts. The whole rear portion of the car is currently separated from the front/engine by a couple of feet. The cool/wet forecast made cancelling less painful but we were looking forward to seeing you guys.

Will you be going to the Tour in Dover the following weekend? We intend to be there.



Regarding the rain . . . beats me. I've actually never used the rain tires I've owned including the fresh set purchased last year. For a Pro it might not be worth the trouble if only one session is wet since no matter what you do in the wet, dry sessions will be faster, even in the cool weather predicted for both days. Kelly and I are not exactly a speedy tire change team since we only have a scissor jack at events (space constraints) and therefore can only raise one wheel at a time.

Dick

Oh, that sucks! We were looking forward to seeing you two. No, we will not be going to the Dover Tour due to schedule conflict. I have been pretty busy at work and it is harder to take time off. Soon, I'll have to set the priorities straight.

About running in the wet in a Pro, you are absolutely right. If it should rain on Saturday, we will take it easy and hope for the best on Sunday.

[DougW]

Dick,
Sorry to hear the car is bustificated. Hope you get it fixed up soon.

As for rain no set up advice from me but...I would think about something like rainex for your helmet, and something for the inside to keep fogging to a minimum. I don't have any good recommendations, but it is something that stuck in my head as needing some thought "someday".

Good luck!

Doug